Hi all,

I thought I would try with this group first.  I recently received a review on a game I released a few months ago and it was a mixed review.  The negative side came from a complain on organization.  Anyway, I thought I knew what I was doing and I found other people to take a look at my project.  Now, with that review, I would like to find some examples of a RPG book that useful as a reference guide.  

1. I don't care about the genre emulation as long as it is generally deemed useful as a reference.

2. I would prefer free or at least cheap.

3.  English products only.  I know something about other languages but not enough to attempt to read a book from cover to cover without babelfish.com and a good dictionary.  Of course, one could imagine the results if some tried to read something in that manner.:rolleyes:

Thanks,

Sean2099

I think Star Wars D6 2nd ed revised and expanded is an example of great orginization.  Most "popular" games these days are well orginized.  Player sections and GM sections are a must if it is one book.  Teaching the game as you go is a good idea, and avoid "see this section" passages, as no one likes flipping around, if you can explain or sumerize everything as you go it's generally more comprehensive.

Palladium books are the best example of poor orginization that can be found in the mainstream. (again, IMHO).

Quote from: grubmanPalladium books are the best example of poor orginization that can be found in the mainstream. (again, IMHO).

Well, that's at least one point where the indy games have taken over. After Weapons of the Gods, Rifts looks like it's been written by Donald Knuth...
I could name HackMaster, too, but that wouldn't be fair...

And I'd say that the first Star Wars edition is actually the one to look for inspiration. It does the job of getting people to play very admirably. Nice examples of play, good emulation of the target material and generally very well written.

The Dragon Warriors books are pretty old, but the format and style is rather interesting. They're available from here, don't know about the legality...

And honestly, the (A)D&D books did a very good job most of the time, too. Many players would expect a similar presentation. It might not be the best there is, but giving the players what they used too is often a better sell than what would be best for them.

My number one pet peeve of organisation: Hundreds of pages of background _before_ you get to the rules.
Pet peeve number two: Shoddy organisation of character creation and basic rules. I shouldn't have to read through a whole chapter devoted to the mechanics before I get to know what my character is all about, and on the other hand I shouldn't be able to go to a dozen referenced sections when I read the character creation.

The second edition of Runequest, if you can find it, is regarded as an exceptionally good example of layout. Chaosium's core rulebooks tend to be, with the possible exception of Nephilim.

Quote from: WarthurChaosium's core rulebooks tend to be, with the possible exception of Nephilim.

I blame the French.

!i!

Quote from: SosthenesMy number one pet peeve of organisation: Hundreds of pages of background _before_ you get to the rules.

Sosthenes speaks for me here.

QuotePet peeve number two: Shoddy organisation of character creation and basic rules. I shouldn't have to read through a whole chapter devoted to the mechanics before I get to know what my character is all about, and on the other hand I shouldn't be able to go to a dozen referenced sections when I read the character creation.

This is superficially a chicken-and-egg thing--how can you understand what your character is about without knowing the mechanics which give meaning to the numbers on the character sheet? But, really, Sos is right. Character creation should come first, and the meaning of all the numbers (etc.) should be summarized as part of character creation, then defined rigorously in the mechanics. Essentially chargen is the introduction to the system, and like any introduction it should provide an overview so the reader has a sense of what's coming. E.g., "Muscle is a measure of how strong and tough your character is. A Muscle of 1 is a frail octogenarian; 5 is average; 10 would be a heavyweight boxing champion. Muscle affects your characters ability to deal out damage in combat, take punishment without crumpling, break down doors, etc."

I am trying out some of those sources suggested.  It looks like the advice about intermingling background and mechanics by using chargen seems to followed by the sources I am going through.

Thanks,

Sean2099

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaI blame the French.

!i!

Bloody French, always messing with things.

Quote from: sean2099Now, with that review, I would like to find some examples of a RPG book that useful as a reference guide.

Ah, you just opened up a huge can of worms. The problem with organization and layout is that the opinions on what is good and what is bad vary widely. My suggestion is poke around the various fora and see what games are touted highly. Find a few games that are in your price range and poke through them. Don't be surprised if what you purchase is just bland rubbish or next year's kindling. It's a crap shoot.

I have seen some differences between what I did and some of the rpgs suggested before.  I didn't think they were big at the time but I am still tinkering with it.  In fact, so far, I noticed some unneeded repetition on my part and some potential for mixing mechanics and chargen.  

At least I can rerelease with PDFs and given any purchasers a free download of any revision.  I am not saying that it excuses errors and such but the ability to make corrections is a bit easier.

Not too many worms outta the can yet Johnny:rolleyes:

Try the core rules for Warhammer 2e. That book is very intuitive and well-organized.

Quote from: sean2099Not too many worms outta the can yet Johnny:rolleyes:

Ah, it's nice to see it's not RPGnet.:haw: