Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;1120943I mean no sarcasm when I ask what do they mean by a "living wage"? If your job isn't satisfying your fiscal needs, do something else. You get paid what you think you're worth.

Generally a "living wage" is enough money to meet your necessary physical living expenses (food, rent, utilities) with at least a little money left over for leisure activity, a certain minimum amount of time left over to enjoy that leisure, and the ability to save enough to build up a reserve against future lack of income.

It is certainly true that there are still quite a few jobs where the pay rate is too low to meet these criteria, i.e. if you keep your time worked within healthy limits, you don't have enough money, and if you work enough hours to achieve your minimum income, you don't have enough time left in the week to enjoy it or even recover properly. But as any polity which has ever passed minimum-wage laws has found out, if you force an employer to pay more for a job than the job is worth in labour, the employer will either find a way to do without the job being done or will ultimately go out of business.

Living Wage Social Justice Warriors?

They don't have a clue.

Quote from: Stephen Tannhauser;1120963But as any polity which has ever passed minimum-wage laws has found out, if you force an employer to pay more for a job than the job is worth in labour, the employer will either find a way to do without the job being done or will ultimately go out of business.

Yes.  Very special case of that here.  "We demand you pay us what we want for our product or the product can't exist."  "OK, the product won't exist."  

From that perspective, it's a win-win for everyone.  

Somehow, these are never the people who make something in (real or latent) demand, like Kevin Crawford, but the people who want to write mini-games based on deconstructing capitalism in the context of Lacan and Foucault. Their position on games that actually get played is that those should go away, because they are sexist, racist, and all kinds of problematic.

BTW, Pundit, did you base the example in your video on this ZineQuest pitch? Because there is an uncanny resemblance.

QuoteDish Pit Witches
a small RPG zine about gay witches who work in a restaurant, based on the Tunnel Goons system.



Hi, I'm Blake Stone! (He/him or they/them, please.) I'm a queer witch who's spent years working in food service, and who also makes tabletop RPGs. It seems pretty natural that I should make an RPG about being a queer witch working in food service, right?

This game is the second, expanded & updated version of the game originally available on itch.io. It borrows many of its systems from the Tunnel Goons system by Nate Treme.

Dish Pit Witches is designed to be played with 2-5 players and a GM. Players need only 2d6, a pencil, and paper. It is a narrative-heavy, combat-free game that follows the lives of employees in a restaurant setting. You aren't playing as the chefs or the waiters -- no, that'd be much too glamorous. Perhaps you'll be an exhausted busser, a perpetually-drenched dishwasher, a harried host, or a long-suffering sommelier. The game tracks time in a way that allows for short, modular play sessions (one session = one in-game day), with downtime taking place at the end of each session.

Quote from: Melan;1120971Somehow, these are never the people who make something in (real or latent) demand, like Kevin Crawford, but the people who want to write mini-games based on deconstructing capitalism in the context of Lacan and Foucault. Their position on games that actually get played is that those should go away, because they are sexist, racist, and all kinds of problematic.

BTW, Pundit, did you base the example in your video on this ZineQuest pitch? Because there is an uncanny resemblance.

Does this clown realize capitalism is the vehicle that allows his creation to exist?

Also...gay witch cooks. If that isn't the most niche of the niche, I have no idea what is.

[video=youtube;xK3jI8Z6eo8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xK3jI8Z6eo8[/youtube]

Quote from: Melan;1120971BTW, Pundit, did you base the example in your video on this ZineQuest pitch? Because there is an uncanny resemblance.

Oh goodness. OK, bizarre premise aside (and from the introduction, I can't see how being gay or a witch factors into anything aside from the author themselves), just what is it exactly one is supposed to *do* in this game? And why would I want to play a game about being an oppressed restaurant worker? What's next, "in this game you play as oppressed pansexual otherkin hitmen from Jupiter picking orders from their Amazon cages"?

Edit: Hell, I could use a few hundred bucks. Maybe I'll stick it to Da Man and write it myself!

Yeah, the same thing occurred to me while reading that pitch. 'I am flaming GAY' is a backstory (or a character quirk), not, you know, something you can base a viable RPG around. But he had to make "a narrative-heavy, combat-free game that follows the lives of employees in a restaurant setting", the least interesting game idea after Bus Driver: The Bussening.

Quote from: Haffrung;1120962For those of us not on Twitter, is there any screen caps or links to where this is being discussed?

The tweet that started it all. The important thing to realize is that she isn't talking about writing game material like rules or adventures, she's talking about making D&D livestreams. That's why she's using terms like "creators" and is talking about D&D as a "medium".

https://twitter.com/dreamwisp/status/1219793872844292098

Quote from: Orphan81;1120957I remember seeing a post from one of them once that literally said "Just because I'm working a "Dream Job" doesn't mean I'm not entitled to a living wage."

'Entitled" along with "deserve" are two words that should be stricken from the language, as they seem to have strayed so far from their original definitions that they have lost all meaning

And Brad, you are on a roll I like what I'm reading.

Quote from: hedgehobbit;1120979The tweet that started it all. The important thing to realize is that she isn't talking about writing game material like rules or adventures, she's talking about making D&D livestreams. That's why she's using terms like "creators" and is talking about D&D as a "medium".

https://twitter.com/dreamwisp/status/1219793872844292098

:rolleyes: Pathetic.

Quote from: Melan;1120978Yeah, the same thing occurred to me while reading that pitch. 'I am flaming GAY' is a backstory (or a character quirk), not, you know, something you can base a viable RPG around. But he had to make "a narrative-heavy, combat-free game that follows the lives of employees in a restaurant setting", the least interesting game idea after Bus Driver: The Bussening.

But that's the thing...you COULD make an interesting RPG out of any of that stuff if you just went full-blast. Sure, you're a gay witch cook, you work in a regular diner, and some mob bosses roll in and want some cannellonis but of course you don't have any fresh pasta or the means to make it, so now you have to cast a spell to create the dish. Of course you fail and make a really bad ravioli then the mobsters start tearing the place up and you have to fight them using your magical spells or some crap. Just go Wendy's-style, with slick art and a 100% commitment to the theme.

I imagine that's not what's going on here, though. It's probably just a "game" created so this dude can bitch about his life, and where's the fun in that?

Quote from: hedgehobbit;1120979The tweet that started it all. The important thing to realize is that she isn't talking about writing game material like rules or adventures, she's talking about making D&D livestreams. That's why she's using terms like "creators" and is talking about D&D as a "medium".

https://twitter.com/dreamwisp/status/1219793872844292098

"Creator." That's the same bullshit as "influencer." Some of those morons on Instagram get paid astronomical sums to pose with shitty energy drinks, and some get zero. Should they all get the same amount, regardless? That's essentially the argument here. But as someone in the comments points out, you can maybe have I dunno, five ridiculously paid Instahoes, and thousands of others get bupkis. The same goes with these "creators." I don't think the RPG hobby can support more than a couple of the Critical Role-type shows, but it WILL reward you if you have a superior product and you can possibly replace Critical Role if you're good enough. They're not good enough.

Because of automation there will come a day that the labor of individual can feed 100,000 people. The labor of another individual can clothe a 100,000, the labor of another still provide the minor household goods for 100,000.

Hand and hand with that it will be trivial for an individual to setup the equipment to produce and distribute the above for a smaller group say around 1,000.

That day has already arrived for the book publishing industry and slowly creeping through the video/film industry and the electronics industry.

None of the economic theories of the past century are equipped to deal with that level of abundance or an absurd level of productivity. However the side effects are starting to be felt. if you don't need the labor to produce the necessities or luxuries what then? And it will be a hodgepodge with somethings still scarce like trying to live in a desired location, or possessing a one of a kind item.

I do know that living wages doesn't address this issue especially now in when it still very much developing. Whatever is done, the stupidly low barriers of entry will allow individuals to undercut any large movement oriented around some form of control which living wages represents.

Quote from: Brad;1120982"Creator." That's the same bullshit as "influencer." Some of those morons on Instagram get paid astronomical sums to pose with shitty energy drinks, and some get zero. Should they all get the same amount, regardless? That's essentially the argument here. But as someone in the comments points out, you can maybe have I dunno, five ridiculously paid Instahoes, and thousands of others get bupkis. The same goes with these "creators." I don't think the RPG hobby can support more than a couple of the Critical Role-type shows, but it WILL reward you if you have a superior product and you can possibly replace Critical Role if you're good enough. They're not good enough.

Maybe she can start selling some Gamer Girl Bathwater (TM) to shore up her accounts while she figures out how to "fix" the RPG "Creator" industry and can eventually earn what she is owed and deserves.

Quote from: Stephen Tannhauser;1120963Generally a "living wage" is enough money to meet your necessary physical living expenses (food, rent, utilities) with at least a little money left over for leisure activity, a certain minimum amount of time left over to enjoy that leisure, and the ability to save enough to build up a reserve against future lack of income.

It's like the word assault rifle. A buzzword to mask what they want. "Living Wage" means fucking NOTHING. Living in a box with nutrient paste and a rat for entertainment is a living wage.

In practice, it just translates too "More Money".

Fuck I make some RPG stuff as a hobby and am happy to bring joy to many people and get a small payment on the side.

Quote from: estar;1120983Because of automation there will come a day that the labor of individual can feed 100,000 people. The labor of another individual can clothe a 100,000, the labor of another still provide the minor household goods for 100,000.

So people will be fatter and more entitled. Human desire is limitless without other values.