Quote from: mearls(Aside: There are times when I look at celebrity playlists on iTunes, or hear people talk about the bands they like, and figure that saying something like "I love AC/DC, Aerosmith, and the Eagles" would make you the most non-mainstream person on the planet.)

Or... y'know... a couple years older than I am (and whoever they are).

Just a thought.

In any case "mainstream RPGs" and "mainstream music" don't translate well. The mainstream RPG has been top dog since the seventies. Mainstream music doesn't last nearly as long, except for a very few out of very many.

Quote from: mearlsHave you ever met the type of dude who defines himself by the weird bands he listens to? RPG.net is at times like an entire web site of those dudes, and the weird bands they listen to are gaming's darlings.

I can't imagine defining myself by the rpgs I like. Apart from those I've written (why would I write an rpg I don't enjoy the most?), my favourites are Fate 2.0 and GURPS 4e. Which are so different that to define myself by them would... the tension... the contradiction... the... argh...


Besides which, it's not what nerd games you like, but what you do that defines you. Batman's girlfriend said something like that.

Quote from: Kyle AaronGranted, the endless drooling fanboyism or hate-ons get dull. But I don't understand why your opinion of X would be affected by that.

Because I don't live in a vacuum.  Until you actually experience something for yourself, whether it's watching a movie, reading a book or playing a game, your opinion is inevitably going to be influenced heavily by the opinions of others.
 
Obviously, there are opinions you will trust and opinions you don't.  With movies, for example, I find my opinons are often in sync with certain reviewers so I tend to trust their opinions much more than others.  And if Harry Knowles says it's good, then I pretty much know it'll be shit.  But it's a lot harder with RPGs, because they are such a niche product.  There aren't any big name reviewers to trust and they aren't as universal as movies so I can't ask any of my friends.
 
So until I can actually get my hands on a game, I think it's pretty natural that my opinion will at least be influenced by the views of the masses.  Oh, sure, you take the view of the masses with a truckload of salt.  And I have subsequently learnt to disregard just about anything that comes out of RPGnet... but that was a lesson that took a little while to learn.  Particularly given that there are some RPGnet darlings that I actually quite like.
 
Now, whether your opinion of something before you experience it has an impact on the experience itself... well, that's something for psychologists to explain.  But I'm pretty sure that is a very real phenomena.

I would also add to your point, Mr. Funk, that roleplaying is a social activity, and thus requires other people who are willing to play a given game.

If a game's fans are by and large a bunch of jackasses and idiots, then it follows that a person is likely to avoid the game, simply because he does not wish to deal with such people in order to play the game.  

So it's not at all unreasonable for a game's fans to turn one off of a game, given that said fans are also the people one is generally likely to wind up having to play with if the game is attempted, especially if you play primarily online.  

Fallout CRPG fans are some of the most notoriously rabid nutjobs on the whole of the internet, but I don't need a one of them to play the game.  Now on the other hand, there's a lot of multiplayer computer games I avoid completely or only play single player, because the fans who play them online are singularly unpleasant.  

As you said, it's not a vacuum.

Quote from: Tyberious FunkBecause I don't live in a vacuum.  Until you actually experience something for yourself, whether it's watching a movie, reading a book or playing a game, your opinion is inevitably going to be influenced heavily by the opinions of others.

Sure. But why would it be influenced by the opinions of others who also haven't experienced it? Do I ask a Catholic priest for advice on my married life? Would I ask a lifelong vegetarian for a recipe for steak & kidney pud? Do I ask a mountain climber what it's like being a professional swimmer?

A quick glance at the posts of the fanboys and haters both shows they've not actually played these games. So why would we care what they think?

Quote from: Kyle AaronA quick glance at the posts of the fanboys and haters both shows they've not actually played these games. So why would we care what they think?

Because of the disinformation that they spread.

Just for a sec, time warp back to when you first got on the Internet and read a gaming forum. You had no idea that what some of these guys were saying was utter bullshit, you hadn't been online long enough to have developed the cranial callouses needed to not believe 99% of what you read. There are a lot of potential players out there who use the internet to find out about our hobby. Unfortunately, its these same fanboys and haters who provide a significant portion of posts that are read. So if the New Guy is misinformed about something, a good portion of the blame on that goes to those who are misinforming him.

Quote from: jeff37923Just for a sec, time warp back to when you first got on the Internet and read a gaming forum. You had no idea that what some of these guys were saying was utter bullshit, you hadn't been online long enough to have developed the cranial callouses needed to not believe 99% of what you read.

Sort of...

... in my case at least, I made the mistake of thinking that folks with RPGnet post counts in the thousands (sometimes even the tens of thousands) must be pretty well versed in the hobby.  Afterall, why would you spend so much time talking about a hobby you do not actually participate in?

Obviously, I know better now.

See, my first thought when I first logged on to the internet, some Star Wars MUD in 1995 or something, was, "geez these guys talk a lot of shit."

Ah, it must have beeen that I was in the Army then, gave me a sensitive Bullshit Detector.

Quote from: Caesar SlaadThis phenomenon came up in a different context in some of my old battles in RPGnet. Matthew Cavotta would rant on from time to time about the pure inadequacy of reviews on RPGnet that were written without benefit of playing the game. I argued, at the time, that while having play experience will be generally beneficial, that you'd also see fewer reviews and see them far later than when the product hit the market.

But others mentioned that it's not necessarily good because you often can't strictly separate reviewing the product from reviewing the GM and group. While I still generally think some play benefit is helpful, I think this is an extreme example of when the product doesn't live up to the play experience.

Word.

Seanchai