That's insane, to me.

I have the boxed set mind you, so maybe the craze is just lost on me.

That's one pricy pdf but apparently MEGA is what people want. Personally I would be more inclined to the smaller, but written by cool people, scenarios of the latest LotFP-crowdfunder, but hey - whatever rocks the rpg-worlds boat.

Quote from: Melan;536418The Rappan Athuk Kickstarter project is doing rather good:
"195 Backers, $42,694 pledged of $25,000 goal, 59 days to go."

That's day one. And the goods start at $40 for the PDF version.

Yeah, that is quite a response.  

It does fit the earlier pattern in a lot of ways.  They are established, hard copies are winning out of PDFs, and it's tapping into existing fan bases, this time around with a dual option of OSR or Pathfinder.  They also have the whole campaign laid out in advance, which most of the ones that went sky high did, so they went in knowing they had leverage and that kind of attitude I suspect also helps bolster the market response.

What is really interesting is just how top heavy the funding is at the moment.  The bulk of backers are either at the $100 or $250 level, and even the $175 level is ahead of PDFs at this moment.

I suggested to them to add into their next stretch goal that the $40 funding level that the backers get both versions of the PDF.  It would help move that side of the funding ladder more.  Regardless of how big the book might be, $40 for a PDF is tough for a lot of people to justify, but if backers at that level saw they had a robust option to play either OSR or Pathfinder then that might be the hook to see a lot more movement.  

It also lets people at lower funding levels participate in stretch goals.  Right now all of the stretch goals are for $100 or more.  That gives this "rich get richer" effect which dampens a larger pool of networking to occur.  It also gives a unique quality to the Kickstarter, as later on they can just sell particular versions at their store of the PDF, but with the Kickstarter you get get that extra perk.

It'll be interesting to see how high this one can go with that opening salvo.

So if you pledge 5 bucks you just get a credit in the finished book, and the joy of helping someone out.
you only get the actual game, ie a pdf, if you pay at least $40?
That's quite a gap!

Also, with respect to pdf kickstarter projects, once the backers have all received their goodies, do the pdf's go on general sale?

Thanks very helpful with more n more such rpg projects. Rather like an expanded form of the wargame P500 or whatnot preorder system but cash amounts and levels instead of just preorder unit numbers.

 

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;536577Also, with respect to pdf kickstarter projects, once the backers have all received their goodies, do the pdf's go on general sale?

That's my understanding tho that could be up to the project. While not iirc on kickstarter Open Design did a lot of Patron only buyins. Usually tho the goal is to raise monies for general release n give Patrons bennies for help funding it.

Back To the dwimmermount/ad&d/Myth&Magic crossover. It was a success  as stated above, how much is attributable to the grognardia mention and how much to the crossover?  Tough to say, but grognardia gave the rub to barrowmaze ii a few days ago and while it has gone up a few hundred dollars, it has not moved in levels similar with the crossover. A small sample to be sure, but having a wider i involved audience seems to be effective.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;536577So if you pledge 5 bucks you just get a credit in the finished book, and the joy of helping someone out.
you only get the actual game, ie a pdf, if you pay at least $40?
That's quite a gap!

The price is larger than normal, though the product is 600+ pages in length and so they do have a case for the premium price.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;536577Also, with respect to pdf kickstarter projects, once the backers have all received their goodies, do the pdf's go on general sale?

I'd assume this would be the normal approach.  One or two of the successful projects in the survey even released there games for free once the kickstarter was over.

There is a lot of flexibility in the overall goals that a crowdfunding project can aim for.  It could be pure preorder, pure patronage/ransoming, or some mix.  From what I saw it makes the most sense to aim for a mix.  You want the product to be developed enough to give confidence to the market, but you also want to tap in a community barn raising atmosphere where people feel that they have helped create something they want to see exist.

If the product goes on to wild success afterwards then all the better as the creators then have resources and incentive to keep creating.

Quote from: DKChannelBoredom;536426That's one pricy pdf but apparently MEGA is what people want. Personally I would be more inclined to the smaller, but written by cool people, scenarios of the latest LotFP-crowdfunder, but hey - whatever rocks the rpg-worlds boat.

Agreed. There is a lot more value to the backers if those stretch targets are reached...

Quote from: Melan;536418The Rappan Athuk Kickstarter project is doing rather good:
"195 Backers, $42,694 pledged of $25,000 goal, 59 days to go."

I wonder if that level of funding (and to a lesser extent the exponentially growing success for the ACKS releases might get the attention of even the biggest players like Paizo or WOTC?

Could we ever see one of them chuck out a kick starter and how much could they raise?

Quote from: Fiasco;536867I wonder if that level of funding (and to a lesser extent the exponentially growing success for the ACKS releases might get the attention of even the biggest players like Paizo or WOTC?

Could we ever see one of them chuck out a kick starter and how much could they raise?

One possibility for WotC and/or Paizo using kickstarter, would be in regard to who is calling the shots on a particular splatbook.

Whoever pays some ridiculous high fee (such as a $10,000 minimum), can call the shots on how such a spatbook is designed, written, etc ...   At an even higher fee (such as  $15,000 or $20,000 fee), they can have an absolute veto over the design and certain other aspects in the production of a particular splatbook.

Essentially a "pay to design" type of model.

I think Rappan Athuk shows how much more money there still is in 3e/PF. I'm amazed at how many backers tipped in $200 plus!

OSR is still not in that league.

In the Tome of Horrors "sold out we need more discussion" on the Paizo boards, the print run and printing cost of the first printing was released by the Judge (a real one, not playlike).  With those numbers (can't recall off the top of my head) you could figure out the general profit margin per book (not counting the ones sold through Paizo, would be lower).  IIRC, the profit margin matched pretty closely with the price of the pdf.  I would not be surprised if the pdf for RA was priced accordingly (although the printing cost per book could drop as the  print run rised).

And yes, the the OSR verison of Tome of Horrors (S&W) had a much smaller print run than the PF version.  In fact, you can still order the first printing on the FGG site it seems.  The PF version was an instant sellout (seems the second run is also sold out).

Quote from: Teazia;536968In the Tome of Horrors "sold out we need more discussion" on the Paizo boards, the print run and printing cost of the first printing was released by the Judge (a real one, not playlike).  With those numbers (can't recall off the top of my head) you could figure out the general profit margin per book (not counting the ones sold through Paizo, would be lower).  IIRC, the profit margin matched pretty closely with the price of the pdf.  I would not be surprised if the pdf for RA was priced accordingly (although the printing cost per book could drop as the  print run rised).

And yes, the the OSR verison of Tome of Horrors (S&W) had a much smaller print run than the PF version.  In fact, you can still order the first printing on the FGG site it seems.  The PF version was an instant sellout (seems the second run is also sold out).

Note to 5E, keep 3E onside!

Quote from: Fiasco;536885I think Rappan Athuk shows how much more money there still is in 3e/PF. I'm amazed at how many backers tipped in $200 plus!

OSR is still not in that league.

It helps that, as harpy pointed out, Rappan Athuk is one of the more visible 3rd party properties. It was originally released in the early d20 boom when sales numbers would still reach the 10,000s, and very widely played and discussed. It helps that for what it attempts to do, it's a success (even if I think The Tomb of Abysthor is a better example of a great Necromancer Games dungeon). It's a known quantity in a way most Kickstarter projects aren't.

Quote from: Melan;536986It helps that, as harpy pointed out, Rappan Athuk is one of the more visible 3rd party properties. It was originally released in the early d20 boom when sales numbers would still reach the 10,000s, and very widely played and discussed. It helps that for what it attempts to do, it's a success (even if I think The Tomb of Abysthor is a better example of a great Necromancer Games dungeon). It's a known quantity in a way most Kickstarter projects aren't.

You are absolutely right but even allowing for that I think the 3E/PF market is substantially bigger than the OSR market. After all the OSR is only a subset of older edition afficionados. Look no further than DF for proof.

I think to ansignificant extent the DF attitude can be summed up as "it's great you have rediscovered 'old school' but we never left".