Quote from: Omega;882110Easy. Roll things back to pre Rifts. Use Beyond the Supernatural, TMNT or Palladium Fantasy.

This is the best answer. Rifts and Rifts game logic borked some of the rather fun games.

Quote from: DarcyDettmann;884007Why do you want to use the D&D 3.X/Pathfinder's alignments system?

Because that's the only other one that springs to mind right away, mostly. haha

Of the games I've played, only D&D/Pathfinder and anything Palladium make use of alignments. Or at least the only ones I remember, anyway. So those are the only alignment systems I know well.

Ok, so what do we have for fixes so far?  I'll echo the supremely wise minds that say earlier editions should be used as a base

If I were cleaning up an earlier edition, such as the magnum opus that is the Palladium Role Playing Game 1st edition revised!- the skill system could use a good cleaning.  There's stuff that can be consolidated and folded into other skills

Honestly I think that Palladium is best served with a "loose" rules framework that a "tight" rule frame work. There were things in the PRPG1R where GM ruling was paramount.  Going by memory here and I've been drinking some wine tonight, so forgive me- the men at arms OCC had the parry ability listed as "as many times as they are reasonably aware of" or some such.  Reading their earlier works, there's a definite vibe of "don't let the rules get in your way" going on.  Hell, the only inflexible rule in the whole game is "no true neutrals".

I'd get rid of the OCC bloat. Seriously, Rifts has so many character classes distinguished only by their gear it was pathetic (at least as I recall; I no longer have most f the RPG library). Not throw out OCCs entirely, but define them more loosely, so you don't need a new OCC for every single kind of power armour trooper. "Oops, you're not [this kind], because [this kind] use a plasma carbine, but you use a laser rifle, which makes you [that kind]." Exaggerated, I know, but not hugely.

Quote from: Whitewings;884112I'd get rid of the OCC bloat. Seriously, Rifts has so many character classes distinguished only by their gear it was pathetic (at least as I recall; I no longer have most f the RPG library). Not throw out OCCs entirely, but define them more loosely, so you don't need a new OCC for every single kind of power armour trooper. "Oops, you're not [this kind], because [this kind] use a plasma carbine, but you use a laser rifle, which makes you [that kind]." Exaggerated, I know, but not hugely.

Not by much, no.
Of course other games, even D20/Pathfinder, have things like templates and archetypes that you can use to modify a core concept to create what are essentially variations on the same theme.  I don't think Palladium is that adaptable.

JG

Quote from: Whitewings;884112I'd get rid of the OCC bloat. Seriously, Rifts has so many character classes distinguished only by their gear it was pathetic (at least as I recall; I no longer have most f the RPG library). Not throw out OCCs entirely, but define them more loosely, so you don't need a new OCC for every single kind of power armour trooper. "Oops, you're not [this kind], because [this kind] use a plasma carbine, but you use a laser rifle, which makes you [that kind]." Exaggerated, I know, but not hugely.

This is really just an issue for RIFTS.  None of the other lines have the glut of O.C.C./P.C.C./R.C.C. choices that the RIFTS supplements bring to the table.

Looking at Beyond the Supernatural, Ninjas & Superspies, even Heroes Unlimited and Splicers, there aren't that many.  Perhaps more than needed, I can certainly see places where one so inclined could trim the fat (Heroes Unlimited Hardware O.C.C.s spring to mind) but it really is RIFTS that has the excess.

So it is less a problem with the Megaversal system so much as it is with how RIFTS builds upon said system.

Quote from: Malleustein;884224This is really just an issue for RIFTS.  None of the other lines have the glut of O.C.C./P.C.C./R.C.C. choices that the RIFTS supplements bring to the table.

Looking at Beyond the Supernatural, Ninjas & Superspies, even Heroes Unlimited and Splicers, there aren't that many.  Perhaps more than needed, I can certainly see places where one so inclined could trim the fat (Heroes Unlimited Hardware O.C.C.s spring to mind) but it really is RIFTS that has the excess.

So it is less a problem with the Megaversal system so much as it is with how RIFTS builds upon said system.

I think it's more that they cater to people who love to have classes for every imagined niche.  Most of which are also D&D players.  Personally, I don't mind all the OCCs simply because most can be ignored.

I'm more interested in the base mechanics.  And the biggest two bugbears I have are the stat system, in which nothing before 16-17 is actually worth anything because there's no bonus or penalties until then, for a lot of the original games.  And the SDC bloat, that lends to ungodly long combat between two random doods having a firefight on the street with .44 Magnums (From a BTS supplement that does 5d6 per shot.  And still won't kill within 30 seconds.)

I only ever use Ninjas & Superspies and some Mystic China so as far as I'm concerned nothing needs to be "fixed." Works just fine for my kung fu movie fun.

Quote from: Matt;884437I only ever use Ninjas & Superspies and some Mystic China so as far as I'm concerned nothing needs to be "fixed." Works just fine for my kung fu movie fun.

...You need to watch better Kung Fu movies...

Quote from: Christopher Brady;884438...You need to watch better Kung Fu movies...

Yeah, given what I've seen of things you're in favor of I think your taste is dubious at best.

Quote from: Matt;884441Yeah, given what I've seen of things you're in favor of I think your taste is dubious at best.

If you think Ninja's and Superspies and Mystic China is the ultimate for Kung Fu movie game, you seriously need to watch more modern films.  Sonny Chiba's Streetfighter is nice, but there are more out there.

It has nothing to do with how unrealistic the history or how inaccurate the actual martial arts are, which are treated as 'fact', not to mention that they chopped up several styles and threw away the parent martial style.

The system itself doesn't really work for some of the abilities shown in some movies.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;884438...You need to watch better Kung Fu movies...

Palladium needs a skill called Speaking Out of Sync.

JG

I can't claim particular familiarity with Hong Kong martial arts movies, but I think N&SS does a nice job of emulating corny Eric Van Lustbader ninja novels and especially low-budget American martial arts movies of the 80s and 90s, including the super cheesy American Ninja franchise and Jean-Claude van Damme's opus. And maybe even early fighting video games like Street Fighter 1 and 2.

Hell, I even have a Bloodsport/Street Fighter adventure/mini-campaign lined up.

It's as close as it gets to a The Expendables RPG.

Quote from: The Butcher;884554I can't claim particular familiarity with Hong Kong martial arts movies, but I think N&SS does a nice job of emulating corny Eric Van Lustbader ninja novels and especially low-budget 1990s American martial arts movies of the 80s and 90s, including the super cheese American Ninja franchise and Jean-Claude van Damme's opus. And maybe even early fighting video games like Street Fighter 1 and 2.

Hell, I even have a Bloodsport/Street Fighter adventure/mini-campaign lined up.

It's as close as it gets to a The Expendables RPG.

I would agree with it, except for one small detail:  Most action films (even those of the 80's) use what we would call Mook Rules.  Low 'level' gumbies that go down in a hit or two, and help make the hero(es) look cool.  Steven Seagal films are notorious for one hit wonders that go down hard.

The issue with even NS&S (which by the way was my favourite book series, competing with TMNT for top spot for years, from Palladium Books) is, once again, the amount of hits anything takes to go down.  If you think being able to soak a full clip of .44 Magnum rounds for everyone (Which PB categorized as a 4D6 weapon after that BTS source book) is OK, then alright, you won't have an issue.  But for ME, I need squishier goons at the very least.

Even in Lustbader's novels, regular people went down hard and fast to the various killers and ninja that popped up.

Here's what I know...

When I play Palladium's RPGs, I consistently have lots of fun while I handwaive past the rules. FOR ME, the fun overshadows the rules by a huge margin.

Ninjas & Superspies is a trainwreck of a game on paper, but hot damn that game is so much freaking fun in actual play.

If PB could keep the fun energy and lose the wonky crap, I believe they would see a powerful resurgence.