As the question says, I want to get an idea of the composition of the group. Never mind how many games you may actually own. In the present time (say, the last 5 years) how many of you have only played/run D&D/D20/OSR games? And how many have played/run games other than those?
I have played some Savage Worlds (War of the Dead) & Call of Cthulu (Achtung! Cthulu) within the 5 year window, and I played a storygame type RPG at Dragonmeet in December, but as GM especially I would consider myself very much a D&D + variants/OSR GM. Currently running 2e, 4e & 5e D&D.
Most of my play in that span has been OD&D/C&C/DCC/5E, so D&D-style RPGs. I have also played a lot of Amber Diceless and Metamorphosis Alpha.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1020879As the question says, I want to get an idea of the composition of the group. Never mind how many games you may actually own. In the present time (say, the last 5 years) how many of you have only played/run D&D/D20/OSR games? And how many have played/run games other than those?
I've played enough D&D to get an idea of the current version, but I primarily play d6 Star Wars, Labyrinth Lord, and Traveller (MgT1E and Classic). I still putz around with Mekton Zeta and Mekton II for my anime fix.
Erf? In the past 5 years? Let's see, I ran 4e Essentials, was part of the 5e beta, and I run a game for the local Adventure League. I also was in a Marvel Superhero Game before that folded, then when M&M 3e came out, I started running that. I've also run Savage World's Pirates of The Spanish Main one shots for a local con several years in a row.
In the past 5 years, I've run D&D 4E, play test, and 5E. We also had a short campaign of Torchbearer. Call it about 80% D&D.
That's been a fairly typical mix over my entire playing time, too, though there were times when I practically never played anything but D&D, and others when I never played it. That near decade of mostly Fantasy Hero--even if it was played a lot like D&D--skews the numbers.
Pretty much 0% D&D and its numerous derivations as it's about my least favorite rules set. Instead I'll be enjoying Traveller, The Fantasy Trip, Boot Hill, Flashing Blades, James Bond 007, and some other games I like much better.
I probably run more GURPS than D&D, really, if I wasn't in retail I wouldn't touch D&D with a stick.
Quote from: David Johansen;1020917I probably run more GURPS than D&D, really, if I wasn't in retail I wouldn't touch D&D with a stick.
How about a ten-foot pole?
A mix of D&D versions (2E, BECMI, 5E) and d6 Star Wars.
In the last 5 years, I've actually played or run:
Rogue Trader
WFRP 2e
Conspiracy X 2.0 (Classic Unisystem)
Pathfinder
D&D 5e
Star Wars (a mix of the three FFG lines)
Played or run:
D&D 4e & 5e
Earthdawn
Shadowrun
Dresden Files
Pretty much all D&D variants for me. Swords & Wizardry, Dungeon Crawl Classics, and Astonishing Swordsmen & Sorcerers of Hyperborea are my 3 favorites. Aside from a couple sessions of 5e, I haven't played any official D&D in years though.
I've run a few sessions of Call of Cthulhu over the past year as well, but it's a rarity.
I haven't played D&D in a long while, maybe ten years. I have played lots of other RPGs though, versions of BRP being one favorite kind of system.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1020879In the present time (say, the last 5 years) how many of you have only played/run D&D/D20/OSR games?
Only if you count TFT as an OSR game.
QuoteAnd how many have played/run games other than those?
Yep: GURPS, homebrew, and a few outside experiments.
D&D & variants (AD&D and OSR potpurri), including Rolemaster which started as a modular D&D plug in.
Last 5 years? Off the top of my head...
Mythras (player and GM)
AD&D (player)
5e (GM)
Shadowrun 2/3 (GM)
Savage Worlds (GM)
2d20 Conan (GM)
WFRP1 (GM)
3 Different Homebrews (player)
AS&SH (player)
ACKS (player)
Mix.
D&D, Gamma World, Star Frontiers, Aberrant, Boot Hill. TSR Marvel Superheroes, Albedo, Beyond the Supernatural, TMNT, some Torg, Tunnels & Trolls, Shadowrun and Call of Cthulhu. And dabbling in many others.
I tend to gravitate back to D&D, and Star Frontiers though as they are such solid systems when not mishandled.
Non-dnd related stuff I've GM'd/played in the last 5 years: shadowrun and star wars.
Umm, I don't do D&D or anything related to it. No knock, just not my thing. I'm sure no one is surprised, dismayed, or gives two cockroach gonads. :D
I play other systems. Mostly other systems, in fact. Don't get me wrong, I'm interested in trying out 5th edition DnD and I have a deep abiding look he for B/X D&D. But when it comes to running games, those aren't really what I go for. Savage Worlds has been my go to game for years, though over the last few years I've run Witch Hunter: the Invisible World and now, 7th Sea. When it comes to FRPGS, I'm far more drawn to Dangerous Journeys (Prime plus some addons from Advanced) or Lejendary Adventure. By comparison, O/Ad&D feels too constrictive while 3-3.5/PF focuses on all the wrong things.
Let's see. Most of the FFG 40k lines, Pathfinder, D&D 5E, DCC, LotFP, Godbound, Monsterhearts, Blades in the Dark, Force and Destiny, Edge of the Empire, Mutant Year Zero, Deadlands Reloaded (current), and I know there are more. A lot were short campaigns due to people not necessarily settling in to the pitch. A few one shots here and there when someone had life interfere.
Our group plays everything, and D&D is just one of many games we play. Lately we have been hitting an OSR groove but we are open for whatever sounds good.
Other systems.
In the last 5 years, mostly DnD 5e and OSR derivatives.
I have also played from time to time Call of Cthulhu 7th edition and I tried Savage worlds (Rifts), although I didn't like Savage worlds much.
This year I'll mostly be running DnD 5e (although scaling back on DnD 5e) and various Sine Nomine RPGs (such as SWN revised, Godbound, Silent legions).
I hope to continue playing in the CoC 7th ed campaign this year.
I want to try other RPGs as well to run and play if I can get a chance to.
We haven't played any form of D&D in 8 years. We play lots of BRP, Magic World, and CoC. Also Scion and Buffy. Soon to play Part Time Gods.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1020879As the question says, I want to get an idea of the composition of the group. Never mind how many games you may actually own. In the present time (say, the last 5 years) how many of you have only played/run D&D/D20/OSR games? And how many have played/run games other than those?
In the last 5 years, I've played and run only OSR variants (and a single game of 5e), and even all of those, combined, were less than 5% of my total gaming time:).
Had you asked for the 5 years before that, the answer would have been "no D&D, nor derived games";).
My usual moshpit of different games, genres and systems.
In the last five years? D&D 5E, Savage Worlds, Hero System, Ars Magica, 7th Sea, Legend of the Five Rings, Torg, Pathfinder, Shadowrun QAGS, and some homebrewed RPGs.
Not necessarily in that order.
I play The Fantasy Trip more than any other game (maybe more than all others put together during some stretches...), and then 1E AD+D or a similar variant as the second most played. There were periods when my answer would have been original Runequest, or spread evenly across a half dozen systems. But I don't have the time to keep up with more than a couple of campaigns these days.
Mainly played/GM'd other rpgs than D&D, of which the Swedish-created game called "MUTANT", variants of White Wolf's "Storytelling system", and variant homebrews heavily inspired by WW's rpgs are most noteable.
EDIT:
Last 5 years ?
.....Oh ....
None .....
Currently running: 3.5
Past 5 years: 4E, 5E, Hero System, Savage Worlds, Labyrinth Lord, Mongoose Traveller, Homebrew d100.
In the last 5 years I would say half my gaming has been D&D (Moldvay or Mentzer) or an OSR variant (mainly Swords and Wizardry WB or Beyond the Wall), and half other systems (D6, Barbarians of Lemuria, a few lesser known systems I can't recall right now).
Last five years? Mostly Burning Wheel and Fate Core (though I'm getting tired of both massively). Ran some FFG Star Wars and now got Genesys so thinking about that. I've also run some GURPS, and a one shot of Classic Traveller. And I did three games of D&D 5e, and then that campaign fell apart because people are weird.
Despite my groups best efforts I won't run anything D&D derived if my life depended on it but I do play in a 5e game run by our junior player.
Five years ago, I was running an AD&D 1E game that was in it's third year and winding down.
This has been followed by:
- GURPS [X-Com] (about 18 months)
- A brief Eclipse Phase game run by another player.
- Hackmaster 4E (about 3 years)
- Pendragon (briefly, and concurrent with Hackmaster)
- Blades in the Dark (sporadic, ongoing, concurrent with HM and now RM)
- Rolemaster (first session was this weekend past).
I had been planning at one point to run Mythras/RQ6, then changed to Godbound, and finally ended up settling on RM as my current game.
I grew up on MERP/RM mainly, after starting with Advanced Fighting Fantasy. There was a bit of BECMI and AD&D in the mix, but not very much, and I became fairly snobby for a while about how AD&D was simplistic low-brow hack and slash.
I only really jumped onto D&D with 3E, and proceeded to run Mongoose d20 Conan and Mongoose d20 Lone Wolf, both of which I consider far superior iterations of 3E. I also ran 4E for 12 - 18 months before reaching my limit for being able to stomach that version.
I've also run HERO (Fantasy), Call of Cthulhu, Paranoia (the "shitty" edition), Heavy Gear, Mage (the first version), Silhouette Traveller, Traveller (New Era), A|State, Rogue Trader, West End Star Wars, WHFRP 1E and AD&D 2E. There are probably a few I'm missing.
I've played (although not a great deal) but not run: DC Heroes, Vampire (the first version), Shadowrun (several versions), TMNT and probably a few others not coming to mind right now.
Edit: With reference to my group as a whole, for the most part I run whatever the fuck I want, and they play. We have one player who very occasionally runs a bit of Shadowrun, and another who does even less GMing, but occasionally wants to run something with a sci-fi bent. One player has run a bit of AD&D outside our main group.
One former player runs a bit of BECMI these days, I believe, and also DC Heroes from time-to-time.
My group's main system is arguably nWoD, but we've played various editions of D&D (OSR and otherwise) and lots of other games besides.
Within 5-years? I ran 5e when it first came out. I don't play D&D anymore.
I mostly run D&D (original D&D and 1e AD&D, in my case). However, within the last few years I've also run Rolemaster (2e) and different types of BRP (RQ, CoC, custom stuff with the BRP gold book). And I've played WHFRP and Dark Heresy, as well as 1e AD&D. Maybe some others that aren't immediately coming to mind.
I have only run or played D&D variants. I'm not against other RPGs in concept, but at least the way my life works, there aren't enough hours in the day to sample them all.
Quote from: Christopher Brady;1020895Erf? In the past 5 years? Let's see, I ran 4e Essentials, was part of the 5e beta, and I run a game for the local Adventure League. I also was in a Marvel Superhero Game before that folded, then when M&M 3e came out, I started running that. I've also run Savage World's Pirates of The Spanish Main one shots for a local con several years in a row.
Right, forgot several short games of OVA and lot's of FFG's Star Wars games, like multiple Edge of Empire series, one Force and Destiny that fizzled (Players had a hang up with 'Canon'.) Oh, right, a one on one Savage Worlds Rippers campaign that's on hiatus. Oh, and a PBEM Feng Shui game.
And probably other games that I've forgotten. My memory sucks, has always sucked.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1020879As the question says, I want to get an idea of the composition of the group. Never mind how many games you may actually own. In the present time (say, the last 5 years) how many of you have only played/run D&D/D20/OSR games? And how many have played/run games other than those?
Played and runs lots of AD&D 1e, and that's certainly accounted for most of my gaming time. Have been playing Ars Magica since the fall. Have also tried out an intro/one-shot for The Strange, and played some Amber and some homebrewed Amber-ish stuff too. Have been working toward a Masks of Nyarlathotep campaign for about 25 years (most off, occasionally on, and back on again now). But AD&D has remained my mainstay.
At conventions, I've been able to branch out quite a bit more: quite a bit of of ASSH, some RQ2, and lot of wargames/minis games (Leading Edge Aliens, Chainmail, Siege of Bodenburg, etc.).
Allan.
Over a period of 5 years I have mostly played red box D&D and Barbarians of Lemuria. I don't count in any one-shots, but only semi-regular groups. There was also some low level 4e adventures. And two adventures of The One Ring.
1E AD&D mostly, some OD&D.
No other games outside of a con one-shot. And I'm not really interested in other games, tbh. I like D&D but I'm not a gamer. (EDIT - also AS&SH, but I consider that "weird D&D".)
Color me surprised. Seems like quite a few people on this site play other games besides D&D. For some reason I was expecting D&D to be run more often by a massive majority.
I run a lot of different games which occasionally includes D&D. I most commonly run d100 games (BRP, Mythras, CoC, WFRP, etc). For lighter fair I run BoL, Traveller, and TFT. I still like the idea of D&D, I just don't enjoy it in actual play like I used to. I'd say, over the past 5 years, D&D got about 25% of my table time including DCC, a little bit of 5e (not my cup of tea), and some 1e one offs. That's about it. I'm not against it, but I have no plans to go back to it at the moment.
Quote from: CanBeOnlyOne;1021407Color me surprised. Seems like quite a few people on this site play other games besides D&D. For some reason I was expecting D&D to be run more often by a massive majority.
I like DnD (particularly 5e), but it's not my favourite RPG.
but it's one of my favourites.
Partially as it's simply lots of fun, easy to get into, everyone knows it and it's really easy to get players for.
But I prefer Stormbringer, Call of Cthulhu, Spacemaster/Rolemaster, Stars without number (and various other Sine Nomine games).
Stormbringer as I really like the stories it's based on and generally the author's work.
I like how fast and gritty Stormbringer is and the fun magic system.
But it's a bit of a niche RPG
CoC as it's a great all night RP session type game. The rules aren't that important really.
When I play this, there's not a lot of dice rolling going on anyway. I love the Lovecraft books.
Spacemaster/Rolemaster: I love the crits and rich character gen.
They're kind of monolith RPGs now though and hard to get players for, so I've kind of given up on that.
But I have some great memories from these.
TBH for the last few years, I've been running a lot of the Sine Nomine games such as SWN, Silent legions, Other dust and now Godbound, which I'm running next week.
It's just REALLY easy to run these RPGs, the GM tables make it really fun as a GM.
Once you get players past the "It's not DnD 5e" thing, they generally like it.
Just AD&D at the moment, but that's my first bit of gaming in a decade and a half. Would like to eventually run some DC Heroes/Batman and/or Gamma World, and maybe eventually some other stuff as well. Open to playing other stuff, but at the moment options are limited.
I've been playing AD&D 2nd Ed infrequently with an old group. We tried giving FATE a chance through JadePunk, but it didn't click.
Gurps and Savage Worlds. I do own a lot of other stuff, mostly for idea mining (just bought Rappan athuk bundle on clearance - pathfinder version). I was going to give pathfinder a try with my gaming group, but I figured two game systems at the time is one too many as it was.
Past five years? D&D: I played in a 5e one-shot and might have played in the guy's campaign if I didn't retire and move to Florida. I have played a few sessions of my friend Simon's campaign, a hybrid OD&D/AD&D1 campaign. I continue to play in it online after my move. He doesn't run it very often.
Non-D&D: I played in a local Dresden Files game once, Fate accelerated rules, in a store. I never made it back. Nice kids but didn't like the system and my character had an in-story exit that worked for me and for the GM. I play in a Myfarog campaign set in the Middle East, not Thule, that runs most weeks. I have two weekly campaigns running my Glory Road rules and I play in another campaign that is also GRR.
I mostly play not D&D or Variants. Lots of systems.
Let's see last 5 years...haven't played D&D or variants (Confession time: last game of D&D I played was around when 4th edition came out, so it has been awhile. Looks it up...wow 10 years!). I have GMed Earthdawn Third Edition and Revised in that time period at conventions and Cathay Quest at home. I have mostly played Savage Worlds. Specifically played 50 Fathoms and Deadlands: The Flood to campaign completion as a player and a session of Suzerain and Deadlands Noir at Con on the Cob. Gmed Shaintar: Rangers Riding Out the Storm to completion and currently running Necessary Evil and 50 Fathoms (for a new group of players to RPGs). Played a game of Metal Magic and Lore at Gencon.
Although I had Moldvay when I was young (sold second hand with Traveller LBBs, only copies of any RPG I saw in rural Ireland until the 2010s), I basically only started playing D&D in mid-2017 when I found the OSR stuff. Wish I had found it earlier. I had been mostly a Traveller and Savage Worlds player prior to that.
Obviously, I've played quite a few other RPG games beside D&D. I'm actually doing so now.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1022005Obviously, I've played quite a few other RPG games beside D&D. I'm actually doing so now.
Citation needed. :D
I play a mix.
Castles & Crusades (for my OSR fix)
Radiance d20 (for a simple, more modern take on Victorian Fantasy)
GURPS 4e (for everything else)
Last night I played Traveller (MGP2e). Wednesday evening DCC, Monday and Tuesday a GUMSHOE/Trail one shot, last Saturday Call of Cthulhu and last Friday I ran Blades in the Dark, Tomorrow I'll be playing 13th Age and GUMSHOE (again but a different playtest game of Trail) on Monday.
That's a fairly typical couple of weeks gaming for me.
In between those games I shall be prepping for a Mythras campaign set in the period of the Successor Wars that starts later this Spring as well as a couple of games for various cons.
Last five years . . . Just home games with friends or my children, not including convention one-shots:
D&D variants: 4e, 5e, Basic
Other: Burning Wheel, FFG Star Wars, SAGA Star Wars, Stars without Number, Nights Black Agents (Gumshoe), Savage Worlds, The One Ring, Torchbearer, Eclipse Phase, Aces and Eights
In the last five years I've run Lamentations of the Flame Princess. (OSR/D&D)
I've also played or run... probably 20 other game systems -- either played in my Monday Night Group or at conventions, either in mini-campaigns lasting several weeks to months, or one shots.
I briefly ran Castles & Crusades, Basic Fantasy and Swords & Wizardry. Kinda close to OSR, I ran Hackmaster 5th with as many bells and whistles turned on as possible. Played in an AD&D 1st game a few years back. Ran D&D 5th for a little bit recently, now playing in a D&D 5th game:) I will say that 5th is hitting a sweet spot for us.
In the past 5 years, as a GM:
_A D&D5e Campaign, a LotFP campaign, a Chroniques Oubliées campaign (a french simplification of the D20 system)
_The Laundry (ongoing campaign)
_A Society of Unlikely Gentlemen
_Into the Dark
_Index Card RPG (which basically replaced any D&D or D20 based game for me).
As a player:
_Deadlands
_Dungeon World
_Yggdrasil
_Paranoïa
Considering that I came back after a long hiatus, I play... or something like that, currently house ruled 5th Edition D&D, plus the one Lords of Olympus here.
Even before that we played mostly D&D versions, M.A.G.U.S./Cyberpunk/Shadowrun/VTM in addition, with 2 campaigns also in 7th Sea
edit: I might add the game with Chirine, an FTF/C&S one, not actually playing yet just at preparation phase.
Quote from: CanBeOnlyOne;1021407Color me surprised. Seems like quite a few people on this site play other games besides D&D. For some reason I was expecting D&D to be run more often by a massive majority.
It's a popular perception, but no less erroneous.
What surprised me most was that I could actually report having played D&D-variants;).
Quote from: RPGPundit;1020879As the question says, I want to get an idea of the composition of the group. Never mind how many games you may actually own. In the present time (say, the last 5 years) how many of you have only played/run D&D/D20/OSR games? And how many have played/run games other than those?
Last time I played D&D was when it was AD&D, probably in 1985 or 1986.
RQ all the way for me, with some HQ thrown in.
On the OSR front, in the last five years I've ran Labyrinth Lord & Lamentations of the Flame Princess and played DCC. Other flavours of D&D have included 13th Age and Fifth Edition. Fate, Mythras, some Apoc*World stuff and various superhero systems have been the side-dishes.
On the D&D side, mostly 13th Age but a little 5E and a little Basic Fantasy.
On the non-D&D side, mostly Supers! Revised, but a little PbtA as well (Uncharted Worlds and Monster of the Week).
In the last five years I've run more CHAINMAIL historical battles than I have D&D.
The only pseudomedievalish fantasy RPG I'll run is OD&D, but I have yet to look at Lion & Dragon. Well, not counting "Kobolds Ate My Baby."
I'll play damn near anything. I'm in a weekly Pathfinder game because it's that or nothing and the rest of the crew is fun to hang out with.
At GaryCon I play almost nothing but historical miniatures wargames, but I was in one of Dave Wesley's "Braunstein" games two years ago.
I felt fairly confident, actually, that while the vast VAST majority will have played D&D, and the majority will play D&D most often, the significant majority would still also play other stuff.
That matches my experience; few people will actually refuse to play in something.
Now, what I will BUY as opposed to PLAY is an entirely different kettle of fish.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1022659I felt fairly confident, actually, that while the vast VAST majority will have played D&D, and the majority will play D&D most often, the significant majority would still also play other stuff.
I'm one that
would play other stuff, but haven't recently. One Pathfinder campaign that broke the camel's back for me on complex systems, and the rest OSR (S&W, LL, and my own homebrewed game). All fantasy as opposed to sci-fi -- I get more than enough sci-fi out of real life and my day job.
For the last two years I have been playing Beyond the Wall.
Previous to that, Ars Magica 5th edition and Savage Worlds.
Back in the day it was D&D B/X, Dragon Warriors, AD&D (mostly 1st and some 2nd), some old RQ 2nd and 3rd and a lot of MERP, Rolemaster and Spacemaster from the old box sets.
More or less in that order, but there was a brief period of VtM and MtA
Purchases-with-intention-to -play include:
Fantastic Heroes & Witchery (great! possible the best set of OSR "clone" rules )
Dungeon Crawl Classics (wow! - and not a clone)
Runequest 6 (picked this up from ebay and love it!)
Torchbearer (I really wanyed to like this but- well- dunno)
Dragon Warriors new edition (great nostalgia stuff)
These days I pretty much exclusively play and run GURPS. The few exceptions would be WaRP/OtE, ORE/Reign/WT, HeroQuest 2, a bit of BRP/Mythras as well as a splash of FUDGE; Risus or Shotgun Diaries or similar for casual pickups and that's pretty much it. I don't play or run any D20 products at all anymore (unless you count HQ2), let alone D&D specifically or any of its OSR variations.
I'm running two 5e D&D campaigns, each about 8 years old (started them in 4e). I run a lot of GUMSHOE, too, nowadays either TimeWatch or Swords of the Serpentine, a Fafhrd-and-the-Gray-Mouser-style sword & sorcery game I'm writing. I'm in one other group that plays a different one-shot every other week: recently I've played Hollowpoint, Masks, Ten Candles, Honey Heist, and a couple of other games I'm forgetting.
I'm currently running a B/X game, but in the past five years I've run...
Savage Worlds
Call of Cthulhu
Rogue Trader
Pendragon
The One Ring
Faery's Tale
Fiasco
How the hell could any gamer only play D&D?
Quote from: rgrove0172;1024074How the hell could any gamer only play D&D?
The same type of person that only plays Call of Duty or Solitaire or any other person who focuses on one hobby. A lot more than you'd think.
I really like d20 based systems. They're fun and familiar. I can pick up any OSR game, or any 5e variant, and I'll instantly know how to use it. Sure there might be setting or game specific rules, but most of the time you're going to be rolling that d20 and everyone knows how that works. Enough that Natural 1s and 20s have become memes. I don't think it's the best system, but it is the most accessible system. Almost everyone who has played RPGs has played some kind of D&D. These days I prefer to play something 5eish, with something BECMI/RCish coming in a close second.
I certainly like other stuff. I like d100 games, like Stormbringer, Call of Cthulhu, RuneQuest, BRP, Hawkmoon and more. The mechanics are nice and one day I may once again find people who would want to play it. But I'm not going to hold my breath.
I like Fate. On paper. Rather, I like how I can hack the mechanics into other games, particularly hacks of Cortex Plus Heroic. I like Cortex Plus and it is bar none, the easiest system I have used to run play by post games. The system totally borrows a lot from Fate, but I like the dice mechanic a lot more. Cortex Plus does have Narrative elements, but those are totally ultimately controlled by the Narrator. And you don't have to use that. I'm waiting for Cam Banks to release the Cortex Prime material so I can write up the hack I've been sitting on for four years. Even if I never use it. And no I don't use that Smallville relationship enneagram thing. I use that system when I want to run something text based and I don't want to spend a lot of time waiting for people to post. The addition of the Time Dice mechanic means that players can post in a nonlinear fashion and then I do recap posts assembled sequentially. It's much easier than it sounds. Also, assets can be treated like stuff. Meaning it can be acquired and it can be lost.
I like Savage Worlds when someone else is running it. I suppose I could run it with Fantasy Grounds, even with a live group because it has an option for manual input, letting players roll their own dice. For some reason though, I enjoy Savage Worlds as a player much more than as a GM.
I have about 2000 pages of material for WEG d6 Star Wars that I got off of d6 Holocron and had printed in three volumes on Lulu. It has the Re-Up material so I can run Star Wars in any era I like. I still prefer d20 RCR as a system though, even though I am mostly likely to run Saga Edition because Saga is really good, and might even be the best iteration of 3.xe type mechanics period.
While I have not run much Doctor Who Adventures in Time and Space, the times that I have were very fun and enjoyable. Everything is super easy to resolve and matching abilities and skills can be a fun dialogue with players as they take creative approaches to things. Not to mention the unique initiative system which encouraged thinking outside of the box.
For the last 5 years? Mainly sporadic L5R and some Shadowrun.
Recently played/playing: D&D5E, Shadows of Esteren, DCC, Changeling (!), Black Code (friend's system, check it out!), Star Wars Heroquest, Mage
Running: D&D5E, Call of Cthulhu, Duty & Honour (homebrew reskin to 40K)
So ... quite a lot really and not just D&D! :-)
Quote from: rgrove0172;1024074How the hell could any gamer only play D&D?
I wonder as well:).
And I suspect I should reintroduce my "no D&D-derived games" rule as well.
Quote from: spon;1024128Black Code (friend's system, check it out!)
Do you mean "Code: Black" for EABA;)?
I started running D&D in the last 6 months, only other games before that.
Quote from: rgrove0172;1024074How the hell could any gamer only play D&D?
Pretty easy for those RPG players who never visit an RPG forum, attend a con, or collect RPG rules as a side hobby. In other words the vast majority of the people in the world who have ever played an RPG.
Quote from: rgrove0172;1024074How the hell could any gamer only play D&D?
Outside of the type of gamers who go to forums like this one, the vast majority of all gamers only play D&D.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1024872Outside of the type of gamers who go to forums like this one, the vast majority of all gamers only play D&D.
Pure BS, Pundit, much as you might want it to be true.
I know quite a few players who refuse to register on a forum, and yet have never even bothered trying out D&D. Most of those usually have some experience with BRP, though;)!
At Sentry Box you'll mostly see players of 5e or Pathfinder. Well... That's when you encounter roleplayers. Most of the time these days it's just card games.
Haven't played D&D in 25 years
My group almost exclusively plays Earthdawn though occasionally we try something different just to see if we can get a consensus on a new game, but we can't. So in the last 5 years we have tried:
Shadowrun 5e
Fate
Savage Worlds
Warhammer 1e
Ingenero
I went through periods where I only played D&D and periods where I would not play D&D at all, especially around the time of 3.5 and 4th edition. I've always been in search of that one magical system that provides me everything I need, but after years of searching, I realize that it doesn't exist. I enjoy rolling lots of dice and d20 games don't always give me that tactile pleasure I get from other games.
I am currently playing or running:
DCC
Burning Wheel
SWON
Mutant: Year Zero
And have played:
Ars Magica
Shadowrun
Call of Cthulhu
Warhammer 1st edition
Marvel (FASERIP)
Apocalypse World
Feng Shui
Traveller
Dragon Age
Hackmaster
WoD (Mage and Vampire)
FASA Star Trek
D&D (all Editions) 4th turned me against it for years.
I think it's well worth the effort to play lots of different games, as a GM. There is almost always at least one good idea that can be borrowed for whatever game you're currently playing.
After re-discovering RPGs a few years ago, I've played...
Call of Cthulhu, 7th edition (running now)
Warhammer Fantasy Role-Playing (GM)
FATE fantasy (player)
D&D 5e (player)
Torg (player)
Fiasco
Microscope
Kingdom
Ten Candles
Lovecraftesque
What stands out to me from this list is how lukewarm I feel about D&D 5e as a system. We had a terrific DM, but the rules were pretty meh. I played a dwarf cleric, and I never felt the system rewarded me for role-playing as the adherent of a religion. Instead, I was a walking set of combat options, as were other PCs.
In contrast, Call of Cthulhu impresses me with how well it works after all these decades. The new rules added over the years provide interesting options at the fringes (for instance, spending Luck on failed rolls), but the core system is still the same.
My least favorite of the batch? Undoubtedly FATE. The mix of story-telling and simulationist ideas doesn't work for me. Not that a mix couldn't work, just not this one. Especially since the rules made me work (Here are aspects, figure out how to use them!) in ways that just weren't fun.
I'll give anything a fair rub up against the leg, but prefer OSR-styled D&D & Mythras/BRP vs modern fantasy games, any edition of Call of Cthulhu vs a whole Trail of Gumshoes, and rules-medium supers systems (ha! the mythical unicorn of superhero gaming) vs handwavy rules-lite stuff or the granola-crunch of games like HERO or Gurps.
Playing in a 5e D&D game right now that sort of makes my teeth itch at times, but it's fun and I'm a lizard-man, so all good.
Over the last few years i've run lots of Fate, Fate-derivates and Apocalypse*World stuff in addition to what's already been mentioned. Me and my guys, we know where the line is when we storygame. None of us cross that line. And we could totally stop any time we wanted to.
Quote from: AsenRG;1024886Pure BS, Pundit, much as you might want it to be true.
I know quite a few players who refuse to register on a forum, and yet have never even bothered trying out D&D. Most of those usually have some experience with BRP, though;)!
Well sorry, but your anecdotal experiences are not an accurate register of the hobby. The huge majority of gamers out there, past and present, have only ever played D&D in one of its variations (including Pathfinder, etc).
Quote from: Bren;1024302Pretty easy for those RPG players who never visit an RPG forum, attend a con, or collect RPG rules as a side hobby. In other words the vast majority of the people in the world who have ever played an RPG.
Yep. Sheer dollar volume alone should tell you.
Not all at once. D&D all editions, Earthdawn, Rifts, Palladium Fantasy Star Wars D6, Star Trek (Icons), 13th Age.
Quote from: AsenRG;1024886Pure BS, Pundit, much as you might want it to be true.
I know quite a few players who refuse to register on a forum, and yet have never even bothered trying out D&D. Most of those usually have some experience with BRP, though;)!
Vast majority not equal all.
And building one what Gronan said, if you look at the units sold and the dollar volume versus the numbers of folks on the various fora. That gamer involved on the internet are dwarfed by the those who are not. That of those not involved on the internet the number of D&D/Pathfinder unit sold and dollar volume versus the rest of the industry implies that yes indeed the vast majority do play D&D and that the odds are high that it is only RPG they play.
But it is not so high that somebody like you have a different view. I suggest go down to a local game store and talk to the store owner about the issue. I know in my area the figures for two stores approaches 80% split between D&D 5e and Pathfinder. And at another store it is more 50-50 largely due to the fact in-store games are part of a gaming club that promote different interest. This is spread over Northwest Pennsylvania.
Finally what does it matter if it true or not? The internet changed everything and vastly expanded the ability of gamers to find and more importantly play the games that they like. Not just for on-line play but finding people locally to game with as well.
BRP, Fate, Savage Worlds, GURPS, the OSR, and the rest will continue to thrive within their niches because in addition to the above, the amount of effort needed to properly support a RPG has dramatically dropped. Often it just takes one person to revive an RPG from the dead or to turn things around.
So seriously so what if it is true?
Quote from: estar;1025431... And building one what Gronan said, if you look at the units sold and the dollar volume versus the numbers of folks on the various fora. That gamer involved on the internet are dwarfed by the those who are not. That of those not involved on the internet the number of D&D/Pathfinder unit sold and dollar volume versus the rest of the industry implies that yes indeed the vast majority do play D&D and that the odds are high that it is only RPG they play.
It's a notably different sort of statistic, though. Playing an RPG doesn't require ever buying one. And if the claim is "have only ever played D&D", it doesn't take much for a person to go from the claimed category to the other.
QuoteFinally what does it matter if it true or not? The internet changed everything and vastly expanded the ability of gamers to find and more importantly play the games that they like. Not just for on-line play but finding people locally to game with as well.
It doesn't really matter. People can hang out with people playing only some games and not others regardless of what's selling or what's popular.
Quote from: rgrove0172;1024074How the hell could any gamer only play D&D?
When we're including "+Variants", pretty easily. I'm running AS&SH and S&W games right now and playing in a DCC game. Other games I'd like to be playing include LotFP, C&C running their A series, a 1e game running old TSR modules I've never played, another S&W game set in the Borderland Provinces focusing on the politics of the region, a Beyond the Wall game, and probably a half dozen other ideas I have kicking around before I'd feel the need to drift away from D&D+Variants.
Played D&D only a couple times. Most of my gaming time in last 5 years was spent between Shadowrun and PbtA, with the occasional one/two shots of things like Mutant Year Zero and Blades in the Dark.
Playing D&D only is very easy. There's multiple editions, widespread distribution, a host of free hacks and clones and many willing players/participants. There also seems to be a relative lack of people offering to run other games.
I live in a gaming mecca and I could seek out other games -- I know they are out there -- but I have enough gaming already.
If you've found something you really enjoy, and are still having fun with it, why wouldn't you keep doing it? Then whether or not you try something else is how available it is and how promising it looks. I'm a person that likes to try new things at times, but also enjoys spending a lot of time on one thing. There are only so many hours to spend. Having spent a decade or more on a single game, I don't have any trouble understanding the possibility that someone would stick with one longer, even though that isn't me.
Quote from: Christopher Brady;1024080The same type of person that only plays Call of Duty or Solitaire or any other person who focuses on one hobby. A lot more than you'd think.
There are plenty of other examples I can think of. People who have war-gamed, but only Warhammer or Battletech. People who play 'gamer' boardgames... if you count Risk or Axis&Allies. People who've read Tolkein and GRRM, but no other fantasy. There are plenty of people who have dipped their toe into various fandom waters, without making it exhaustively their thing.
I think fora like these have a selection bias for people who are in some way or another 'all-in' on this whole RPG-ing thing (Chirine being a notable exception here). Out 'in the wild,' I feel that there are a lot more people who have all sorts of fun with whatever TTRPG is most popular in their neck of the woods (and I think the 'everyone starts with D&D' truism is America-specific), without ever needing to explore all the other options out there.
Quote from: estar;1025431if you look at the units sold and the dollar volume versus the numbers of folks on the various fora. That gamer involved on the internet are dwarfed by the those who are not. That of those not involved on the internet the number of D&D/Pathfinder unit sold and dollar volume versus the rest of the industry implies that yes indeed the vast majority do play D&D and that the odds are high that it is only RPG they play.
But it is not so high that somebody like you have a different view. I suggest go down to a local game store and talk to the store owner about the issue. I know in my area the figures for two stores approaches 80% split between D&D 5e and Pathfinder. And at another store it is more 50-50 largely due to the fact in-store games are part of a gaming club that promote different interest. This is spread over Northwest Pennsylvania.
Finally what does it matter if it true or not? The internet changed everything and vastly expanded the ability of gamers to find and more importantly play the games that they like. Not just for on-line play but finding people locally to game with as well.
BRP, Fate, Savage Worlds, GURPS, the OSR, and the rest will continue to thrive within their niches because in addition to the above, the amount of effort needed to properly support a RPG has dramatically dropped. Often it just takes one person to revive an RPG from the dead or to turn things around.
So seriously so what if it is true?
Very well said. The sales numbers don't lie (although exactly what story they tell is of course up for interpretation, as a data guy I feel compelled to mention that). D&D (and PF) are the 800-lb gorillas of the hobby. But, also very well said, so what? Popularity is only relevant in how likely you are to find a gaming group interested in your specific favorite game (and if you have a group already, the real question is how easy it is to sell them on the idea of trying your favorite system), and whether your favorite system is likely to keep printing new material (and if you still prefer 'previous unsupported edition version XYZ', that could be completely meaningless). There's no moral weight to 'most popular.'
Quote from: Steven Mitchell;1025561If you've found something you really enjoy, and are still having fun with it, why wouldn't you keep doing it? Then whether or not you try something else is how available it is and how promising it looks. I'm a person that likes to try new things at times, but also enjoys spending a lot of time on one thing. There are only so many hours to spend. Having spent a decade or more on a single game, I don't have any trouble understanding the possibility that someone would stick with one longer, even though that isn't me.
This is exactly why AD&D (Demon Idol cover) is 99% of my RPG consumption. Why F around with buying a bunch of knock-off systems and likely sinking money into dead weight when this one works great?
Quote from: Steven Mitchell;1025561If you've found something you really enjoy, and are still having fun with it, why wouldn't you keep doing it? Then whether or not you try something else is how available it is and how promising it looks.
Sweet Crom's hairy nutsack, this. This is why I still play OD&D, because nothing else has convinced me it is more fun.
Quote from: Skarg;1025464It's a notably different sort of statistic, though. Playing an RPG doesn't require ever buying one. And if the claim is "have only ever played D&D", it doesn't take much for a person to go from the claimed category to the other.
Somebody in the group has to have the rules. So relative sales figures is good proxy to get a handle on just how widespread a particular RPG. Especially since we are talking order of magnitude differences here.
Quote from: Skarg;1025464It doesn't really matter. People can hang out with people playing only some games and not others regardless of what's selling or what's popular.
As a predictor of what a specific gamer knows in the way of RPGs it is quite useless. But the original post for this point was making a general point.
Quote from: Willie the Duck;1025565But, also very well said, so what?
It means two things
It support Pundit's contention that there are more a few gamers out there that only play an edition of Dungeons & Dragon.
The second it addressing why people get bent over the fact D&D and similar editions are the 800-lb gorilla. I met folks that to a greater or lesser degree despise the fact that D&D is the most popular. I went overboard on my reply in this regard. I am stressing my opinion that relative popularity is not the major factor people think it is for the hobby. For somebody trying to making a living sure it is a factor. But for the hobby it not.
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1025596Sweet Crom's hairy nutsack, this. This is why I still play OD&D, because nothing else has convinced me it is more fun.
Don't you use some AD&D addons?
Quote from: Christopher Brady;1025621Don't you use some AD&D addons?
True, mostly added spells, magic items, and monsters. One can legitimately ask at what point have I glued enough bits on to change the game.
I don't think I have, especially since going back to the pre Greyhawk hit dice and weapon damage, but that's just an opinion.
Quote from: Steven Mitchell;1025561If you've found something you really enjoy, and are still having fun with it, why wouldn't you keep doing it? Then whether or not you try something else is how available it is and how promising it looks. I'm a person that likes to try new things at times, but also enjoys spending a lot of time on one thing. There are only so many hours to spend. Having spent a decade or more on a single game, I don't have any trouble understanding the possibility that someone would stick with one longer, even though that isn't me.
Nothing wrong with that. If you've found a game that you really enjoy and are still having fun with it, the only real reason to stop playing it would be because it hasn't been in print for a long time and so it has become difficult to find new players. Still, that's no longer a problem for D&D as just about every version is now available again. It does remain an issue for quite a few games though, like Buck Rogers XXVc.
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1025623True, mostly added spells, magic items, and monsters. One can legitimately ask at what point have I glued enough bits on to change the game.
I don't think I have, especially since going back to the pre Greyhawk hit dice and weapon damage, but that's just an opinion.
Thank you, I was just wondering if I was remembering incorrectly. Or mixing things up. Again.
Quote from: estar;1025617As a predictor of what a specific gamer knows in the way of RPGs it is quite useless. But the original post for this point was making a general point.
Pundit made two general assertions. I replied to your reply to AsenRG's post which was calling BS on Pundit's more extreme assertion, which was:
QuoteOutside of the type of gamers who go to forums like this one, the vast majority of all gamers only play D&D.
Of which the "all gamers" part is clearly inaccurate exaggeration (e.g. most gamers aren't even RPG players), and the "vast" isn't specific but also seems like an exaggeration, especially with the other assertion "have only ever played D&D".
I have no disagreement that D&D was the first, has always had the most sales of all RPGs, that most people think of D&D when they think RPGs, most RPG players play or have played D&D or some variant of it or Shadowrun.
I've held off on answering this question for a while because I consider "playing old-school D&D" and "playing other RPGs (including d20/WotC editions of D&D)" to be such vastly different hobbies, that the question might as well have been "who here just plays D&D and who also plays board games," or "who here just plays D&D and who also plays football."
I play original/basic D&D regularly. I play may favorite card games and board games (gin, whist, French tarot, backgammon) less often, far less than I would like to, mostly for lack of interested opponents. I play most other card games and board games, and all modern RPGs, so infrequently that I can't say they count as hobbies or even activities of mine at all. It doesn't mean that I don't or won't play them, I just rarely have the occasion to.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1025402Well sorry, but your anecdotal experiences are not an accurate register of the hobby. The huge majority of gamers out there, past and present, have only ever played D&D in one of its variations (including Pathfinder, etc).
Says you. But you also claim other stuff that makes me laugh:).
Let's just say I need more proof than that;).
Some mythical sales numbers are supposed to show what most people play? How so? You can never know whether a given book is going to be played by one person, by a whole group, or by nobody. Might be a Satanic Panic relic who wants to burn them, for all we know. Or it might be sitting in a nice bookshelf as reading material.
All a sale means is someone purchased a book. It doesn't mean it was ever used.
Gronan here is running games from his OD&D he bought in 1974. How many sales is he producing? How many sessions have been played with his books?
And he's just one guy that, admittedly, uses D&D. But ask any Traveller fan about "Classic Traveller fans". How many sales do you think those guys are producing? Yet they run games for other people, including for new people. Now guess what, how many sales are those people producing?
Yeah, sales as estimate of what is getting played sucks.
Oh, and just to let you know, Pundy, freeform does, in all likelihood, dwarf D&D by popularity. It just doesn't produce book sales...except for the IPs that are, sometimes, being used by each individual group.
But of course, most people conveniently can't access the sales numbers. Unless you care to provide me a link to WotC sales?
Quote from: estar;1025431Vast majority not equal all. [/QUOTE
Vast majority means, in common parlance, "over 75%". And no, since we regularly lament how there's no research on RPG players, I don't think Pundit has enough data to make that assertion.
QuoteAnd building one what Gronan said, if you look at the units sold and the dollar volume versus the numbers of folks on the various fora.
Link to the data, please? Have WotC started publishing their numbers? Because barring that, we don't know units sold even for WotC, much less for all the other RPG systems out there.
QuoteThat gamer involved on the internet are dwarfed by the those who are not. That of those not involved on the internet the number of D&D/Pathfinder unit sold and dollar volume versus the rest of the industry implies that yes indeed the vast majority do play D&D and that the odds are high that it is only RPG they play.
"Odds are high" is a much more reasonable, though debatable assertion. You'll note that Pundit doesn't speak about odds, he's certain.
QuoteBut it is not so high that somebody like you have a different view. I suggest go down to a local game store and talk to the store owner about the issue. I know in my area the figures for two stores approaches 80% split between D&D 5e and Pathfinder. And at another store it is more 50-50 largely due to the fact in-store games are part of a gaming club that promote different interest. This is spread over Northwest Pennsylvania.
I have. The problem is, in most gaming stores, my first action should be to persuade said owner to carry RPGs, period:D!
Among those that do carry RPGs, it would seem Dragon Age and Dark Heresy are contenders to D&D (probably due to the IPs).
QuoteFinally what does it matter if it true or not?
It doesn't matter one bit. We're again having debates to pass the time.
Which is why it makes me laugh when someone mentions it as a badge of merit.
QuoteThe internet changed everything and vastly expanded the ability of gamers to find and more importantly play the games that they like. Not just for on-line play but finding people locally to game with as well.
Yeah, it did. Why then do you assume that what might have been true in pre-Internet days (the popularity of D&D) would still hold true?
Internet also changed the playfield for anyone trying to get into RPGs, you know:D!
Quote from: Skarg;1025760Pundit made two general assertions. I replied to your reply to AsenRG's post which was calling BS on Pundit's more extreme assertion, which was:
Of which the "all gamers" part is clearly inaccurate exaggeration (e.g. most gamers aren't even RPG players), and the "vast" isn't specific but also seems like an exaggeration, especially with the other assertion "have only ever played D&D".
Yeah, this. Especially since Pundit has no way to know whether people who purchased D&D has become purists:D!
QuoteI have no disagreement that D&D was the first, has always had the most sales of all RPGs, that most people think of D&D when they think RPGs, most RPG players play or have played D&D or some variant of it or Shadowrun.
Also, this.
But "most people have had exposure to some variant of it"=/="most people only play this";).
So, as often happens, we're debating the Pundit's exaggeration, not the facts. Well, most of us aren't debating those facts. I'm sure Pundy wouldn't admit even the possibility of being wrong - unless it is to then go and say "and that's why I was RIGHT!"
And this also means that I'm going to be participating in this "debate" until it stops being fun. Which is a point we're critically close to;).
Quote from: Skarg;1025760Pundit made two general assertions. I replied to your reply to AsenRG's post which was calling BS on Pundit's more extreme assertion, which was:
Of which the "all gamers" part is clearly inaccurate exaggeration (e.g. most gamers aren't even RPG players), and the "vast" isn't specific but also seems like an exaggeration, especially with the other assertion "have only ever played D&D".
I have no disagreement that D&D was the first, has always had the most sales of all RPGs, that most people think of D&D when they think RPGs, most RPG players play or have played D&D or some variant of it or Shadowrun.
Oh my god. First, it was assumed, contextually, that "all gamers" here means "all Tabletop RPG gamers" and not pool players or bridge enthusiasts.
Second, it's not an exaggeration. The vast majority of RPG gamers who've ever played, have only ever played D&D (in one of its editions).
Agree on the first point. Everyone in the conversation except Skarg understood what gamers meant in context.
To the second, there are plenty of people (and this again is probably nation-dependent) who have played D&D (/PF) and no other TTRPG, but I would say with any kind of confidence that it is majority, much less vast majority. D&D is far and away the biggest, so much so that most times during its' history it has exceeded all others combined. But I don't know if that means that 51+% have never played any other TTRPG. I'm not even sure if that could be known, given the information available.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1026497Oh my god. First, it was assumed, contextually, that "all gamers" here means "all Tabletop RPG gamers" and not pool players or bridge enthusiasts.
Second, it's not an exaggeration. The vast majority of RPG gamers who've ever played, have only ever played D&D (in one of its editions).
When I read "gamers", I don't think pool or bridge, but I do think wargamers and strategy gamers and non-RPG miniatures gamers and so on.
On the second point, if you were not exaggerating, then what is that based on? Because it seems to me that's unlikely to be anything anyone has accurate numbers for, and it also seems extremely unlikely to be true even if you are talking about only RPGs.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1026497Oh my god. First, it was assumed, contextually, that "all gamers" here means "all Tabletop RPG gamers" and not pool players or bridge enthusiasts.
Second, it's not an exaggeration. The vast majority of RPG gamers who've ever played, have only ever played D&D (in one of its editions).
In Junior High we played Marvel Super Heroes because D&D was frowned upon because... Catholic School.
Games I like playing: Star Wars (mostly d20 but I started with WEG d6), Savage Worlds, Cortex Plus/Marvel Heroic (mostly as a GM using my own hack which is less Fate, more crunchy), Various Flavors of RuneQuest/BRP/d100, DWAITAS, FASA Star Trek, Aliens powered by Phoenix Command, Mechwarrior. I even liked GURPs at one time.
Quote from: Skarg;1026969On the second point, if you were not exaggerating, then what is that based on? Because it seems to me that's unlikely to be anything anyone has accurate numbers for, and it also seems extremely unlikely to be true even if you are talking about only RPGs.
The proportional popularity of D&D as a cultural phenomenon, rather than a hobby.
Surely, most people who are such serious gamers as to write in this forum have played something other than D&D (probably a lot of other things), but the normies haven't.
In fact, with D&D5e's huge resurgence, you can go on Twitter (or, I presume, other social media) and see shitloads of newbies who don't even realize there are other games than D&D.
I played a one-shot of D&D 5E, the rest was all non-D&D/d20/OSR.
I know this isn't what you meant, but I honestly feel like everyone is playing D&D variants, regardless of what they call it. My core gaming group from the late 70's on has always called all table top rpg's D&D, as in 'Do you want to play D&D saturday?...Sure; let's get back into that Runequest mess we were playing last week!'. I mean this literally, not metaphorically: OD&D eventually solidified into a sort of canonical family of rules when it was republished as 1E, but in its first couple of years there were three completely different sets of rules for adjudicating personal combat (four if you are broad minded enough to use all the material in Chainmail), and all were so badly explained that it is hard to imagine people didn't mix and match and extrapolate them into dozens of variants. Judge's Guild was probably the biggest 3rd party publisher, and their stuff came with alternate stats, different stat generating and reporting conventions, social status, etc. ICE started publishing rules that look now like the nucleus of a 'different game' but they were really first intended to be a bolt on system of stats and combat mechanics for D&D. 1E Chivalry and Sorcery looks different in detail from OD&D, but if you blur your eyes a bit, it is obviously just an elaborate set of D&D house rules, with maybe 50 % identical genetic heritage, 50 % weird D&D variant and 10 % totally new stuff. What I'm saying is that the border between what was D&D and what was not D&D was pretty hard to draw. The market of commercial games doesn't present itself this way any more, but this is still how I see them.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1027314In fact, with D&D5e's huge resurgence, you can go on Twitter (or, I presume, other social media) and see shitloads of newbies who don't even realize there are other games than D&D.
Don't worry, the Grognards are there to enlighten them. :)
Quote from: Krimson;1027385Don't worry, the Grognards are there to enlighten them. :)
No, we are there to tell them that OD&D means "ONLY D&D."
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1027388No, we are there to tell them that OD&D means "ONLY D&D."
Which means what, exactly. Cuz I honestly can take it to mean many things. I honestly want to know what YOU make it mean.
It's a joke. Technically, at least.
As in, "NCC-1701, no bloody A, B, C, or D." There is only one edition of D&D.
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1027403It's a joke. Technically, at least.
As in, "NCC-1701, no bloody A, B, C, or D." There is only one edition of D&D.
Probably a better analogy is "there's only one Star Trek, and it doesn't have ': TOS' after it.
As far as I'm concerned, that's a fine concept. We clearly do not do so consistently in our society--for example, there clearly isn't 'only one' Apollo mission, with the rest being Apollo 2, 3,4, etc., the first one became Apollo 1, even if retroactively (I don't know for sure, perhaps it was always planned as Apollo 1). For D&D, that'd be fine, the other ones are AD&D, AD&D2e, D&D 3e, D&D 4e, D&D 5e, etc. Except that leaves the casual players (who wouldn't know who Holmes or Moldvay or Mentzer were if the tripped over them) who played boxed set TSR D&D post LBB era without a thing to call what they played. What I mean is that TSR of that era deliberately wanted to conflate these new versions of D&D to be the same thing (even though they clearly have significant differences).
Quote from: Willie the Duck;1027408Probably a better analogy is "there's only one Star Trek, and it doesn't have ': TOS' after it.
No the other one is better because I automatically read it in Scotty's voice. :D
Quote from: Larsdangly;1027382My core gaming group from the late 70's on has always called all table top rpg's D&D, as in 'Do you want to play D&D saturday?...Sure; let's get back into that Runequest mess we were playing last week!'
You guys were weird. Like people who use the word "Coke"* for any flavor of soda.
* Cue Hemlock Stones: "I'll have coke please, I understand it comes in bottles in this country."
Quote from: Willie the Duck;1027408What I mean is that TSR of that era deliberately wanted to conflate these new versions of D&D to be the same thing (even though they clearly have significant differences).
Totally about the marketing. Nowadays I think that falls under brand management.
Quote from: Bren;1027431* Cue Hemlock Stones: "I'll have coke please, I understand it comes in bottles in this country."
"The inspiration's almost gone from this jar."
Quote from: RPGPundit;1027314The proportional popularity of D&D as a cultural phenomenon, rather than a hobby.
Surely, most people who are such serious gamers as to write in this forum have played something other than D&D (probably a lot of other things), but the normies haven't.
In fact, with D&D5e's huge resurgence, you can go on Twitter (or, I presume, other social media) and see shitloads of newbies who don't even realize there are other games than D&D.
"D&D" as a generic name for the hobby is very old. Only one GM I played OD&D with in the early Eighties played Rules as Written. OD&D seemed a framework upon which you could build. In that sense, the players in my campaigns were _not_ playing D&D because I had already diverged much further than Lion & Dragon has. The players in Jon's campaign were not playing D&D because he didn't use the RaW for much at all. The other three DMs I remember were closer to RaW than not until Andy switched completely to my rules (and told me he thought it should be called a different game) But we all called what we were playing D&D back then.
There was one guy trying to promote a game, I think it was "Chivalry and Sorcery," and he referred to at as a way to play D&D.
It wasn't until AD&D1 told us that we weren't playing D&D if we didn't use RaW that we knew better.
Quote from: WillInNewHaven;1027523"D&D" as a generic name for the hobby is very old. Only one GM I played OD&D with in the early Eighties played Rules as Written. OD&D seemed a framework upon which you could build. In that sense, the players in my campaigns were _not_ playing D&D because I had already diverged much further than Lion & Dragon has. The players in Jon's campaign were not playing D&D because he didn't use the RaW for much at all. The other three DMs I remember were closer to RaW than not until Andy switched completely to my rules (and told me he thought it should be called a different game) But we all called what we were playing D&D back then.
There was one guy trying to promote a game, I think it was "Chivalry and Sorcery," and he referred to at as a way to play D&D.
It wasn't until AD&D1 told us that we weren't playing D&D if we didn't use RaW that we knew better.
Cool story. This jives with my experience in the late 70's as well. I feel like the relationship between the OSR and 'official' D&D today is the best model for understanding the relationship between D&D and other game systems in that era. Yes, strictly speaking, Swords and Wizardry (or whatever) is its own game. But no one who plays it thinks of it as fundamentally different from D&D - it is just a variant. That is how C&S, Tunnels and Trolls, etc. were interpreted by the groups I gamed with during the period when other game systems first emerged.
Quote from: Krimson;1027385Don't worry, the Grognards are there to enlighten them. :)
Well, I'm certainly trying to do my part.