Quote from: AkrasiaSo you guys think jrients is a robot?  

What?   You think he isn't....?

Quote from: AkrasiaSo you guys think jrients is a robot?  

Of course not. It's obvious that jrients is a Robot Wizard. You gotta be specific about these things or you'll be turned into a Lite Brite picture of a toad.

Sheesh!

The first two editions of Rolemaster were the best. Stay away from RMSS. I haven't seen the new classic books, but considering that they are just reorganizing 2nd edition rules, they probably aren't bad.

All you really need to play are the three basic books (Character/Campaign Law, Arms Law, Spell Law) plus Creatures and Treasures.

RMC 1 and 2 had some interesting alternate classes, but I wouldn't use any of the other optional rules like the alternate skill system. These extra classes are purely optional and add a little variety. They are in no way indispensable.

Some of the new books aren't too bad for use with RM2. The RMSS Spell Law has some decent additions to lots of spell lists, as well as new lists.

Sigh, all the RMSS haters, we'll wind up with a watered down Advanced HARP at this rate.

Yes there are some places where RMSS could have been better, like making skill categories optional.  It's not really hard to do, just treat every skill as having the Combined progression and be done with it.

But going back to stat gains on a chart?  potential stats on a chart? % ten times for stats?  Spell list block purchase rolls?  Development points based onthat ridiculous chart that even unbalances things more for the guy with good rolls?  The massive skill list with each skill having its own cost and stat bonuses?  Averaging stat bonuses?  No training packages?  No culture packages?  No talents?  No flaws?

Nope I'm sorry, RM2 character creation isn't even faster than RMSS character creation.

It seems to me the one that you're used to is the one that is faster. I know I could make ten RM2 characters in the time it would take me to make one RMSS.

That I can accept.  I'll even throw in the cavet that I'm not a believer in working out the bonuses for all the skill categories (just the ones you've got), bothering with encumbrance much (I just warn them that I will if they try carrying too much), exhaustion points (which really boil down to, if you move at a dash you won't be moving much afterwards anyhow), heck, I even play pretty fast and loose with equipment and supplies, since I generally have them provided by patrons rather than handing out lots of cash rewards.

I suspect the real problem is the same problem that every ultimate edition be it GURPS 4th, HERO 5th, Talaslantia, or Rolemaster runs into.

The edition with everything is essentially unapprochable and unusable for a beginner.

Rolemaster frp was a good step in the right direction but it needed to streamline a few more things like the skill category system and the turn sequence.

I love both of those but to a beginner they look pretty damn scary.

I can't say that I actually like Rolemaster, but I loved its red-headed stepchild, MERP (Middle Earth Role-Playing). Same basic confusing system, but reduced down to a manageable scale, plus some great artwork.

Quote from: David JohansenI love both of those but to a beginner they look pretty damn scary.

I'm a beginner, I have them, and they sure look scary.

That said, if I could find a competent GM, I'd play. I can see how good this game is. I just don't have the time or energy to acquire that competence myself... twenty years ago would have been a different story... sigh.

Quote from: jeff37923I can't say that I actually like Rolemaster, but I loved its red-headed stepchild, MERP (Middle Earth Role-Playing). Same basic confusing system, but reduced down to a manageable scale, plus some great artwork.

I love MERP too!    

A MERP/RM2e hybrid is actually my preferred ICE system (character creation and NPC combat charts from MERP; PC and 'important' NPC spells and combat charts from RM SL and AL; plus C&T).

(As an aside, I'm not sure why you refer to MERP as RM's 'red-headed stepchild', as MERP was actually more popular than RM during the glory days of ICE in the 1980s and early 1990s.)

Quote from: Akrasia(As an aside, I'm not sure why you refer to MERP as RM's 'red-headed stepchild', as MERP was actually more popular than RM during the glory days of ICE in the 1980s and early 1990s.)

The main book was red.

See MERP doesn't have enough charts to be simple.  I know that sounds counter intuitive, but the crits get old in a hurry and flipping back and forth between charts to figure out weapon modifiers drives me nuts.

Even so, skill categories aren't really all that scary.

Things to remember:

Most skills are standard progression. 3 points per rank for the first ten ranks.

All categories you can buy ranks for are 2 points per rank for the first ten ranks.

Combat Manoeuvres, Crafts, Specialized Sciences, Professional and Vocational skills are all pretty self contained.  No category ranks are purchased and the skill ranks improve by 5 points per rank for the first ten.

Spell Lists, Alertness, and Sense Ambush only progress 1 point per rank.

Body Development and Power Point Development have a racial progression rate.

Personally I'd have just given everything except Body Development and Power Point Development a Standard category and Skill Split, since a craft like cooking actually has subdisciplines as does a science like Advanced Mathematics.  Spacemaster Privateers was somewhat schitzophrenic about whether it was trying to clean this up or make it worse.

Your bonus for each skill is figured by totalling

Category Rank Bonus
Profession Bonus
3 Stat Bonuses per Category
Any Category Special Bonuses

Skill Rank Bonus
Item Bonus
Any Skill Special Bonuses

Not really bad at all.  But unless you're using a spreadsheet, I'd advise not bothering to total minor skills like cooking or shoe repair until you actually use them in play.  Totalling the occasional bonus in play just doesn't slow things down as much as totalling all the bonuses before play does.

The worst thing is keeping track of which skills came out of which categories and searching the list of some 600 skills is just a very slow way of going about it and the main cause of confusion and terror among beginners.  Especially when you're trying to decide if that was a Science / Analytic Technical or a Tech. / Trade Vocational skill where the distinction between the categories is obviously a bit fuzzy.  (a hold over from SPAM trying to be 100% RMSS compatible)

School of Hard Knocks comes in handy at times just because it's an alphabetical listing of the skills instead of a listing by category.

MERP was frickin' awesome.  I was just paging through one of my copies last night, thinking of all the good times my high school group had with our one short MERP campaign back in the day.

Don't say things like that, cruel man. You know how much some of the MERP books are fetching on ebay? I'm staying the hell away from that game because I know me: I buy one supplement, I want ALL THE OTHERS too.

I never played MERP. I discovered it after we'd already picked up Rolemaster and never got a chance. I do own a bunch of the books though, for use as RM supplements. the game definitely looks like a blast.