I used to have a joker in my group that whenever it came to movement, he would insist that he dashed the distance - even if it was 10 feet. My response was, sorry you can't get up to dashing speed over 10 feet, x % activity gone.

Next time it came up - "i sprint to the doorway to block it". It's 5 feet away! You step there, you pillock, x% activity gone.

Rolemaster has no business being anything other than an app-based product now. The older editions showed the limits of the print-based medium back in the day, limits that become strengths once digitized. Why this hasn't happened yet says plenty of things, none of them good.

Quote from: Bradford C. Walker;903847Rolemaster has no business being anything other than an app-based product now. The older editions showed the limits of the print-based medium back in the day, limits that become strengths once digitized. Why this hasn't happened yet says plenty of things, none of them good.

I agree. It's custom made for apps.

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;903834This is the first I heard of the beta. I downloaded it and took a look-through. When I saw the chart that showed target numbers above 100, I closed the PDF.

uhm...dude...it's d100 + Skill.  The target numbers start at 100.

As for custom aps.  They have one now.  I haven't tried it yet.

Really the only part that's bad is totalling the bonuses and as I've been saying for years and years.  If you don't plan to use it a couple times a session, don't bother totalling it.  One skill doesn't take long to total.  You can work on it when other people are center stage if it bugs you.  I know the book tells you to total all the bonuses.  But your Lore Obscure: Lizardman Philosophy skill can usually be added up when you need it.  If you ever need it.

Quote from: Ravenswing;903813Perception is reality.  If what the design team was after was to put out something for RM veterans only, sure, great, whatever.  If they had hopes to sell so much as a single frigging copy to anyone who'd never played RM before, going for the highest page count for published RPGs was so far from the way to go they'd need a road map and a native guide.

Bullshit, of course, and evasion. If perception were reality, it would be called reality. Simplistic nonsense without meaning. Advertising and political hack speak.

Quote from: Bradford C. Walker;903847Rolemaster has no business being anything other than an app-based product now. The older editions showed the limits of the print-based medium back in the day, limits that become strengths once digitized. Why this hasn't happened yet says plenty of things, none of them good.

I was asked by a friend to define what a "board game" is.  It's harder these days, what with the digitization of so many existing games, and games that exist solely on a digital platform that could easily be made into board games.  My definition of a board game is one where the play mechanics are transparent to players.  If you can theoretically run the game in your head, then it's a board game whether or not a computer is managing things for you.

I mention this because RM seems complex enough that a digitized version pushes the boundaries of what I consider a tabletop game, and not because of the platform itself.

Wow. When they released the first beta in 2012 it seemed a more manageable project. This second beta has spiralled into a behemoth: ~200 pages for Arms & Character Law, ~450 for Spell Law, ~350 for Treasure Law, ~900 (!) for Creature Law. I can't see this appealing to anyone but hardcore fans.

Quote from: Matt;903875Translation: the comment pissed me off and I'm a stone fanboy, so I'm going to resort to ad hominem attacks.

There.  Fixed it for you.

Moving on to discussions among grownups, y'know, that's an interesting notion: how otherwise table- and minutiae-heavy games could be affected by apps.  It does remove houseruling from the equation, but even that's solvable if the code's easily rewritten by amateurs.  Dunno if RM has a surviving player base deep enough to make this marketable, but no doubt there are those out there better versed in the economics of app sales than I am.

Quote from: David Johansen;903863uhm...dude...it's d100 + Skill.  The target numbers start at 100.

My point exactly.

Ah well, not the game for you then.  Really, the math isn't that big of a problem.  And I've had some pretty mixed groups with some pretty rough math skills.

Quote from: David Johansen;903918Ah well, not the game for you then.  Really, the math isn't that big of a problem.  And I've had some pretty mixed groups with some pretty rough math skills.

The math parts are fine.

Let's face it, Rolemaster could be relaunched with a new edition that somehow makes both RM2 and RMSS fans happy, is streamlined while retaining all of the features that make the game unique, have great art and layout and a full suite of functional apps...and still not make a dent in the market these days. And as that will never happen, I'll just keep my RMSS books and gaze at them now and again.

I think it could be done but it would take something really special.  Rules don't, as a rule, sell games.  Settings sell games and RM is a game that would kill most settings.

Back in the eighties the Middle Earth licence was the killer app that raised RM to prominence.

Now?  It's hard to say.  With a really tight reinterpretation of the rules that's fast and clean and easy to use.  Tied to a really cool property.  I don't know what that would be right now.  But just for the sake of argument let's say it's the next big thing rather than a big licence.  It's possible it could be developed in house but it's far more likely to be something out of the blue like Harry Potter.  And I think Rolemaster could ride a wave like that.

It'd take vision and forward thinking, neither of which is in vogue at ICE these days so I'm not holding my breath.

Quote from: The_Shadow;903926Let's face it, Rolemaster could be relaunched with a new edition that somehow makes both RM2 and RMSS fans happy, is streamlined while retaining all of the features that make the game unique, have great art and layout and a full suite of functional apps...and still not make a dent in the market these days. And as that will never happen, I'll just keep my RMSS books and gaze at them now and again.

Was there a need for a new edition of Role Master? Are the previous editions out of print? Or out of date? Was the plan to make a revised edition with bug-fixes included? Or to make a whole new rule-set that was streamlined? Or one that was more detailed?

Well, when Tolkien Enterprises drove the original ICE into bankruptcy a lot of freelancers went unpaid.  This meant that they weren't too friendly with the CEO of ICE 1.0 and 2.0.  I'm not sure if the CEO in question knew the buyer before the purchase but I'm not sure anyone who really understood the situation would have hired him.  This meant that a great deal of RMSS material couldn't be republished.  This is something they should have just said up front.  I think people would understand that.

HARP was an attempt to replace MERP as an entry point to RM.  It should have been a new edition with the ability to layer on detail.  But at the time nobody really wanted a new edition as we'd just purchased the 2.5 of RMFrp which was RMSS hammered into a single cut down volume.  Actually, it's pretty well done but it was a real missed opportunity to bridge the gap and placate the RM2 fans.  HARP is just too close to RMSS, it's got Talents and Training Packages.  It does integrate the attack and critical table into a single entity, which is interesting.  Really, RM's weapon differentiation is interesting but focuses too much on weapon verses armor without reflecting how a weapon is used.  ICE 2.0 further muddied the waters with Rolemaster Classic, a restatement of RM2 and RMU a lighter version that was intended to get new people in.  Rasyr wrote the vast majority of ICE 2.0 material and got screwed from both ends for it.  It's kind of funny / sad as neither end wanted to screw him but the licence yanking put him in the position of either going against his close friends who managed ICE or losing his ability to work on Rolemaster.

With the owner yanking the licence from the CEO due to complaints about the non-payment of freelancers and a new ICE 3.0 I do think a new version is appropriate.  Especially with all the clouded ownership issue but also because RMSS is too clumsy and RM2 is too messy.  A standardized, modular game with the best of both would probably be well received by the fans.

But trying to please everyone is a road to failure.

I'm not in love with RMU like I am with RMSS but I think the beta was pretty solid.

Not perfect, dry and workman like, more concerned with getting the numbers right than the tone, but solid.

It's drifted too far from that.  I wanted training packages.  I'd have liked a different paradigm for dealing with Size.  I'd have liked a shield skill rule that made some kind of sense.  I'd have liked a supported option for skill categories.  But I think it worked and had some internal logic.  I look at the changes and I can't help but think this will be the final nail in Rolemaster's coffin.  HARP will go on.  The guy in charge these days loves HARP and wrote HARP sf.

I hope they prove me wrong.

I really do.

I hope I'm just a whiny ass.  (well I am but even so)