Title says it all, ever write fanfics about your favorite role-playing games and their settings? I do. Mainly out of boredom and because I like fanfics (yes, I know they're considered to be inferior to real literature, but I enjoy them anyway). I want to know if anybody else on this forum writes RPG fanfics or reads them, for that matter.
In fact, I am currently writing some right now. Just posted the first chapter to a fanfic about solo RPG's. Sort of a "story within a story" in which the first chapter about the character playing a solo RPG serves as the framing device for the game's actual story itself.
It's titled "Flowers On The Wall" (named after The Statler Brothers' song about boredom)
http://archiveofourown.org/works/8150791/chapters/18679711
I even mentioned this very site in the first chapter, sort of as an Easter Egg.
Also, if you know of any RPG fanfics or write them yourself, share them here.
Quote from: Doc Sammy;922096I want to know if anybody else on this forum writes RPG fanfics or reads them, for that matter.
I've read some.
Back in the 1990s I played in and eventually co-GMed a Star Trek game. The GM, who started us out gaming Star Trek used to write fiction about the Star Trek characters from the campaign she played in with the guy who started her out gaming Star Trek. They would write a chapter or two and then send that to the other person who would continue the story. In a sense, our campaign was a parallel universe off shoot of their original campaign. Some of those characters appeared in our setting, though non of our new characters ever appeared in the fiction. Which is part of what made our campaign a parallel universe. The original GM also used to write a bunch of fiction about his characters and some of her characters. He even included them in non-Star Trek settings. He did a bunch of fiction using those characters in a Spell Jammer setting.
Oh dear, it's come to this.
Quote from: Doc Sammy;922096Title says it all, ever write fanfics about your favorite role-playing games and their settings?
Not me, but apparently some people do: http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?35030-Solo-RPGing-Yeah-that-means-by-your-self
Quote from: One Horse Town;922107Oh dear, it's come to this.
I'm in my Tron-suit. I'm ready to LARP. COME AT ME One Horse!!!!!!
Quote from: One Horse Town;922107Oh dear, it's come to this.
I'm sorry. Forgive me if I'm breaking any rules, I didn't know. And if I didn't break any rules then I'm sorry I upset you.
Here's my fanfic:
Chapter One: Genesis of the Plot!
Lestat gently stroked his neon hot pink Gibson guitar signed by George Michael and thought about his past as a rock performer. Sadly, the 80s were over.
"I'm incredibly bored," he said gothically.
"Isn't that a shame! We'll have to do something about that!" Said a mysterious voice mysteriously from the shadows.
"Whaaa..?" Lestat exclaimed vampirically.
Stepping from the shadows came a familiar figure in a ruffled pink shirt of the kind people used to wear back in the gothic Victorian times.
"Louie?" Letstat exclaimed in shock* "But I thought you were dead! Or more dead. Deader than undead!"
"Turns out, I'm okay!" Louie said mysteriously, arching his eyebrow and winking sphinxlike.
"Oh, can this be true?" Pondered Lestat, happily but still gothically. "But Louie? Why are you so short? And why are you suddenly wearing mouse fur?"
"Well, you see" Louie explained cryptically," I'm not just you're Louie. Turns out I'm an amalgamation** of every Louie that has ever existed in any copyrighted writer's universe ever!"
"Whaaaaaa?" Lestat ponderously exclaimed outloud with vampiric undertones.
"There's no time to explain further I'm afraid my old friend Lestat the Vampire! We need to get to Egypt! Jesus needs us!"
WoooshWooshWooosh!
A blue police phonebox suddenly appeared in the room Britishly!
* - so shocked he forgot to exclaim either gothically or vampirically.
**- See Marvel vs DC
Chapter the Second: Britishocity
From out of the blue box stepped Doctor Who and Rose Tyler. "I'm the Doctor and this is Rose Tyler!" Doctor Who said with a British accent. "We are gathering all the great heroes throughout time in this time period to help us save the past from an evil plot."
"All the heroes?" Said Lestat. "But I'm not a hero, I'm a vampire!"
"You can be my friend," Amalgam-Louie said, placing his hand on Lestat's shoulder. "You can be, if you only look inside yourself."
"Okay" Lestat said with occult resolution." I hardly can believe it but if you say so I will trust you my old friend, for now."
"Good job!" Said Doctor Who with his accent. He shook hands with Lestat, "I'm the 10th Doctor by the way. You have a lovely guitar."
"Thankyou, " Lestat said arcanely."It was a gift from George Michael, for my birthday. Not my real birthday…my vampire birthday! But George Michael didn't know that!"
"I see" Doctor Who said, understanding Lestat's joke and chuckling softly.
"There's no time to waste!" Rose Tyler said. "Get in the TARDIS everyone! Next stop Chuck Norris's riverboat!"
Meanwhile, in the river boat that Chuck Norris shared with his friend, Duncan Macleod, Chuck Norris was practicing with his nunchucks.
"You're getting good with those!" Said Duncan MaCleod.
Chuck Norris flashed back to how he and Duncan had first met. It had been in London, where he was on tour, winning martial arts tournements. After a particularly fine battle with a large sumo wrestler, Chuck Norris was exhausted and went out for a walk when he came across two men fighting with swords, one of them in a long trenchcoat weilding the most beautiful katana Chuck Norris had ever seen, and the other one dressed as a viking warrior!
"There can be only one!" the Viking shouted and lunged at Duncan Macleod with his battleaxe marked with magical Norse runes that gave it supernatural powers. Chuck Norris could tell by the runes that the viking was evil so he quickly jumped in and yelled "Ki-Ya!" Together, he and Duncan Macleod made short work of the viking, chuck Norris giving him a roundhouse kick to the face and then Duncan Macleod cutting off his head with a mightly slash of his beautiful katana.
"Quickly, move back!" He said to Chuck Norris, with a Scottish accent. Chuck didn't understand, but he somehow immediately trusted this man as his Karate senses told him hin his heart that he was good. Stepping back, he stared in amazement as lighting came down from the sky and bolts jumped out of the viking's neck wound and went into Duncan as he spasmed in ecstacy.
"That was the Quickening" Duncan said, when it was over. "His powers have now gone into me. We're Immortals, and whenever we meet we have to fight because there can be only one!"
Chuck Norris drew up his fists and prepared to fight, but Duncan reassured him Scottishly: "No my ally, there can only be one Immortal in the end, but there can be lots of humans!"
"Well, that's good" Chuck Norris said, smiling. "I would hate to have to fight you because I can tell that you're a good warrior like me."
"Yes". Replied Duncan. "by the way, I am the Highlander, but you can call me Duncan."
"I'm Chuck Norris."
"I know, I have seen you're movies. I am a big fan"
And from then on they were fast friends, and Duncan invited Chuck Norris to come live with him on his riverboat.
Part Trio: Duncan a Mio
Duncan sat polishing his magnificent katana. He reflected fondly how it had been a gift from George Michael. The two of them had become friends at a midnight showing of Road House starring Patrick Swayze.
Suddenly a strange beeping filled the air.
"Gadzooks!" said Chuck Norris, "That's my Karate Communicator *! But it only is supposed to ring when there's massive troubles!"
"Hello?" Chuck Norris asked, quizically.
"Chuck Norris? This is Leonardo! Leader of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles!"
"The Ninja Turtles?" Thought Chuck Norris, "Holy crap! I Thought you guys were just an urban legend!"
"No," explained Leonardo, "We're very real. I'm calling to tell you that you are in great danger! There are a group of creatures who....GAKKKKK!"
The line went dead with static.
"Leo? Leonardo?!" Chuck Norris screamed. but it was too late. The line was dead.
"What was that about?" Duncan asked Scottishly, but before Chuck Norris could answer the windows on their riverboat home suddenly imploded!
"Oh man," said Chuck Norris, "We've got problems!"
"Do you think it's ninjas again?" Asked the Highlander, readying his beauteous katana.
"I think we're about to find out" Chuck Norris replied, gracefully twirling his nunchucks and the readying them like he was ready for action.
* - The Karate Communicators had been given out to all the greatest martial artists in the world by Bruce Lee before the Chinese government faked his death so that he could go underground and infiltrate the Triads.
Thats as far as I got before deciding I'd rather waste my time doing things that didn't hurt my brain
We get it. You hate fanfiction. You could just say that directly. I wouldn't mind.
Quote from: TristramEvans;922128Here's my fanfic:
Chapter One: Genesis of the Plot!
Lestat gently stroked his neon hot pink Gibson guitar signed by George Michael and thought about his past as a rock performer. Sadly, the 80s were over.
"I'm incredibly bored," he said gothically.
"Isn't that a shame! We'll have to do something about that!" Said a mysterious voice mysteriously from the shadows.
"Whaaa..?" Lestat exclaimed vampirically.
Stepping from the shadows came a familiar figure in a ruffled pink shirt of the kind people used to wear back in the gothic Victorian times.
"Louie?" Letstat exclaimed in shock* "But I thought you were dead! Or more dead. Deader than undead!"
"Turns out, I'm okay!" Louie said mysteriously, arching his eyebrow and winking sphinxlike.
"Oh, can this be true?" Pondered Lestat, happily but still gothically. "But Louie? Why are you so short? And why are you suddenly wearing mouse fur?"
"Well, you see" Louie explained cryptically," I'm not just you're Louie. Turns out I'm an amalgamation** of every Louie that has ever existed in any copyrighted writer's universe ever!"
"Whaaaaaa?" Lestat ponderously exclaimed outloud with vampiric undertones.
"There's no time to explain further I'm afraid my old friend Lestat the Vampire! We need to get to Egypt! Jesus needs us!"
WoooshWooshWooosh!
A blue police phonebox suddenly appeared in the room Britishly!
* - so shocked he forgot to exclaim either gothically or vampirically.
**- See Marvel vs DC
Chapter the Second: Britishocity
From out of the blue box stepped Doctor Who and Rose Tyler. "I'm the Doctor and this is Rose Tyler!" Doctor Who said with a British accent. "We are gathering all the great heroes throughout time in this time period to help us save the past from an evil plot."
"All the heroes?" Said Lestat. "But I'm not a hero, I'm a vampire!"
"You can be my friend," Amalgam-Louie said, placing his hand on Lestat's shoulder. "You can be, if you only look inside yourself."
"Okay" Lestat said with occult resolution." I hardly can believe it but if you say so I will trust you my old friend, for now."
"Good job!" Said Doctor Who with his accent. He shook hands with Lestat, "I'm the 10th Doctor by the way. You have a lovely guitar."
"Thankyou, " Lestat said arcanely."It was a gift from George Michael, for my birthday. Not my real birthday...my vampire birthday! But George Michael didn't know that!"
"I see" Doctor Who said, understanding Lestat's joke and chuckling softly.
"There's no time to waste!" Rose Tyler said. "Get in the TARDIS everyone! Next stop Chuck Norris's riverboat!"
Meanwhile, in the river boat that Chuck Norris shared with his friend, Duncan Macleod, Chuck Norris was practicing with his nunchucks.
"You're getting good with those!" Said Duncan MaCleod.
Chuck Norris flashed back to how he and Duncan had first met. It had been in London, where he was on tour, winning martial arts tournements. After a particularly fine battle with a large sumo wrestler, Chuck Norris was exhausted and went out for a walk when he came across two men fighting with swords, one of them in a long trenchcoat weilding the most beautiful katana Chuck Norris had ever seen, and the other one dressed as a viking warrior!
"There can be only one!" the Viking shouted and lunged at Duncan Macleod with his battleaxe marked with magical Norse runes that gave it supernatural powers. Chuck Norris could tell by the runes that the viking was evil so he quickly jumped in and yelled "Ki-Ya!" Together, he and Duncan Macleod made short work of the viking, chuck Norris giving him a roundhouse kick to the face and then Duncan Macleod cutting off his head with a mightly slash of his beautiful katana.
"Quickly, move back!" He said to Chuck Norris, with a Scottish accent. Chuck didn't understand, but he somehow immediately trusted this man as his Karate senses told him hin his heart that he was good. Stepping back, he stared in amazement as lighting came down from the sky and bolts jumped out of the viking's neck wound and went into Duncan as he spasmed in ecstacy.
"That was the Quickening" Duncan said, when it was over. "His powers have now gone into me. We're Immortals, and whenever we meet we have to fight because there can be only one!"
Chuck Norris drew up his fists and prepared to fight, but Duncan reassured him Scottishly: "No my ally, there can only be one Immortal in the end, but there can be lots of humans!"
"Well, that's good" Chuck Norris said, smiling. "I would hate to have to fight you because I can tell that you're a good warrior like me."
"Yes". Replied Duncan. "by the way, I am the Highlander, but you can call me Duncan."
"I'm Chuck Norris."
"I know, I have seen you're movies. I am a big fan"
And from then on they were fast friends, and Duncan invited Chuck Norris to come live with him on his riverboat.
Part Trio: Duncan a Mio
Duncan sat polishing his magnificent katana. He reflected fondly how it had been a gift from George Michael. The two of them had become friends at a midnight showing of Road House starring Patrick Swayze.
Suddenly a strange beeping filled the air.
"Gadzooks!" said Chuck Norris, "That's my Karate Communicator *! But it only is supposed to ring when there's massive troubles!"
"Hello?" Chuck Norris asked, quizically.
"Chuck Norris? This is Leonardo! Leader of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles!"
"The Ninja Turtles?" Thought Chuck Norris, "Holy crap! I Thought you guys were just an urban legend!"
"No," explained Leonardo, "We're very real. I'm calling to tell you that you are in great danger! There are a group of creatures who....GAKKKKK!"
The line went dead with static.
"Leo? Leonardo?!" Chuck Norris screamed. but it was too late. The line was dead.
"What was that about?" Duncan asked Scottishly, but before Chuck Norris could answer the windows on their riverboat home suddenly imploded!
"Oh man," said Chuck Norris, "We've got problems!"
"Do you think it's ninjas again?" Asked the Highlander, readying his beauteous katana.
"I think we're about to find out" Chuck Norris replied, gracefully twirling his nunchucks and the readying them like he was ready for action.
* - The Karate Communicators had been given out to all the greatest martial artists in the world by Bruce Lee before the Chinese government faked his death so that he could go underground and infiltrate the Triads.
Thats as far as I got before deciding I'd rather waste my time doing things that didn't hurt my brain
That was just getting interesting, but, as an example of random internet fanfic, not enough homosexuality masquerading as bromance.
Quote from: Doc Sammy;922129We get it. You hate fanfiction. You could just say that directly. I wouldn't mind.
I hate fanfiction.
Mostly because we'll find intelligent life on Pluto before we'll find a fanfic well-written (and that includes the ones that became bestselling novels).
The hate for fanfiction is kind of random.
The only difference between "fanfiction" and normal fiction is one is on a shelf. Most myths are just old fanfiction.
Quote from: ArrozConLeche;922111Not me, but apparently some people do: http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?35030-Solo-RPGing-Yeah-that-means-by-your-self
Ive never tried it but might someday, it sounds fun. But it would take away from my group gaming and solo gaming. Id have to think about it. They are all quite different you know?
Quote from: CRKrueger;922136I hate fanfiction.
Mostly because we'll find intelligent life on Pluto before we'll find a fanfic well-written (and that includes the ones that became bestselling novels).
Well, to each their own. I just write fanfiction for fun. I'm not trying to win awards, I know my writing probably sucks.
Quote from: rgrove0172;922142Ive never tried it but might someday, it sounds fun. But it would take away from my group gaming and solo gaming. Id have to think about it. They are all quite different you know?
You might like my fanfic "Flowers On The Wall", linked in the opening post. It is about solo RPG'ing.
(Sorry for the double post. I'm typing this on a Playstation 3 right now so I can't edit my posts at this moment)
A while back I was at a... symposium?... I saw a talk by a creative writing professor who encouraged her students to write fan-fiction. She said it removed a lot of the hassle of coming up with a setting and characters and such and let the students dig right into the work of telling the story and getting all the parts working together. Makes sense to me.
I could see it helping a GM trying to explore a setting and get a more innate sense of it, make it their own. I think a lot of campaign preparation for licensed settings qualifies as fan fiction of a sort.
My only issue with fan-fiction (as well as with gaming in licensed settings) is that the most of the folks writing it are... fans. It tends to be either weak regurgitations of the original or focus on 'shipping' their favorite characters. Like, I'd love to read some good fan-fiction based on Supernatural... that concentrated on the horror elements and mythology of the show... and resisted the urge for Sam on Dean sexual encounters.
I must confess to having written a couple fan fics. One features Reepicheep from The Chronicles of Narnia undertaking a quest to restore a maiden's honor with Conan of Cimmeria. The other is a Lord of the Rings / Chronicles of Prydain crossover that just kinda wrote itself one week. They're both on rpgnet somewhere.
I wouldn't claim to have created anything great in them just explored the implications of the character interactions mostly. I can't think of any two heroes who would hate each other more than Conan and Reepicheep.
On a less imitative but still unoriginal note I've been working on a Dungeon Crawl story about a party of adventurers raiding a goblin lair. It actually grew out of various discussions of old school tactics and killing goblin children here. As with the others I posted it on rpgnet. It's not that I love rpgnet but there's a place for it there and there really isn't here. Plus the larger audience gives me a better idea of how well it's received.
Quote from: Simlasa;922165A while back I was at a... symposium?... I saw a talk by a creative writing professor who encouraged her students to write fan-fiction. She said it removed a lot of the hassle of coming up with a setting and characters and such and let the students dig right into the work of telling the story and getting all the parts working together. Makes sense to me.
I could see it helping a GM trying to explore a setting and get a more innate sense of it, make it their own. I think a lot of campaign preparation for licensed settings qualifies as fan fiction of a sort.
My only issue with fan-fiction (as well as with gaming in licensed settings) is that the most of the folks writing it are... fans. It tends to be either weak regurgitations of the original or focus on 'shipping' their favorite characters. Like, I'd love to read some good fan-fiction based on Supernatural... that concentrated on the horror elements and mythology of the show... and resisted the urge for Sam on Dean sexual encounters.
I assure you that there is no shipping in my fic,
Flowers On The Wall.
Just anime characters playing solo RPG's because they are bored as fuck. Based on my own recent personal experiences with boredom and contemplating doing a solo RPG to alleviate said boredom.
Quote from: CRKrueger;922136I hate fanfiction.
Mostly because we'll find intelligent life on Pluto before we'll find a fanfic well-written (and that includes the ones that became bestselling novels).
Alan Moore's The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen (the book, not the movie.)
Quote from: Cave Bear;922189Alan Moore's The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen (the book, not the movie.)
Is it wrong that I actually preferred the movie to the graphic novel?
Quote from: Doc Sammy;922190Is it wrong that I actually preferred the movie to the graphic novel?
Not necessarily. Any reason why?
I prefer the graphic novel because Alan Moore was able to tell the kind of story he wanted to tell without executive meddling, and because the medium allows more room to flesh out characters. The characters in the graphic novel were layered, complex, and flawed. I found the characters in the movie to be more three-color and two-dimensional.
Mr. Hyde got reduced to an Incredible Hulk expie, the Invisible Man got turned into comic relief, Alan Quartermain lost the drug addiction subplot, etc.
But I will admit that the movie was a fun, light romp.
Quote from: Cave Bear;922191Not necessarily. Any reason why?
The comic is a bit pretentious. The movie is a lot less full of itself.
Quote from: Bren;922196The comic is a bit pretentious. The movie is a lot less full of itself.
We're talking about a comic where [SPOILER ALERT]
Spoiler
...that golliwog guy from the marmalade jars has sex with two anatomically correct wooden dolls and flies an airship.
Mr. Hyde rapes the invisible man to death and swallows a martian whole.
And Harry Potter was the antichrist.
In what way was the book pretentious? Is it because it was too well written for what it was?
Quote from: Cave Bear;922197In what way was the book pretentious? Is it because it was too well written for what it was?
I wouldn't say it is too well written and its been quite a while since I looked at LoEG, so I can't point to any particular thing. The comic seems to take itself too seriously given that it is a potpourri, well let's just call it a pot-luck stew, of other people's creations. Some of the pretentiousness is Moore himself as much as it is the comics.
Quote from: Bren;922200I wouldn't say it is too well written and its been quite a while since I looked at LoEG, so I can't point to any particular thing. The comic seems to take itself too seriously given that it is a potpourri, well let's just call it a pot-luck stew, of other people's creations. Some of the pretentiousness is Moore himself as much as it is the comics.
In what way is Alan Moore pretentious?
Quote from: Cave Bear;922203In what way is Alan Moore pretentious?
As one example, he is more than willing to use and abuse the intellectual creations of others for his own ends (e.g. the literary characters he appropriated for TLoEG, the inspirational superheroes for the Golden Age Watchmen) while bitching about how licensees choose to use his creations (e.g. film versions of his works).
And a quick search for quotes by Alan Moore turned up this[ATTACH=CONFIG]418[/ATTACH]
So it's lazy when others do it to his art or to art he likes. It's insightful when he lazily does it to the art of others that he doesn't like. Kind of the definition of pretentious, n'est–ce pas?
Quote from: Bren;922208As one example, he is more than willing to use and abuse the intellectual creations of others for his own ends (e.g. the literary characters he appropriated for TLoEG, the inspirational superheroes for the Golden Age Watchmen) while bitching about how licensees choose to use his creations (e.g. film versions of his works).
First of all, that's called being a hypocrite, not pretentious.
Second of all, the literary characters used in TLoEG were public domain by that point; their creators were long since dead, and couldn't care anymore.
Third, the inspirational superheroes for Watchmen were just that: inspirational. He didn't specifically use them by name.
Licensees aren't using Alan Moore's creations as inspiration. They are taking his creations whole cloth BY NAME and bastardizing them.
Big difference there.
Quote from: Cave Bear;922209First of all, that's called being a hypocrite, not pretentious.
Hypocrisy and pretentiousness are not mutually exclusive. The definition of "pretentious - attempting to impress by affecting greater importance, talent, culture, etc., than is actually possessed" seems to fit a number of Moore's statements. But if you prefer "whining hypocrite" to "pretentious auteur" as a description for Moore, I'm happy to concede the point.
QuoteLicensees aren't using Alan Moore's creations as inspiration. They are taking his creations whole cloth BY NAME and bastardizing them.
No the licensee is using his creation per the license that he gave them. Moore didn't have to license his creations. He chose to license them. For money. Then whined about the way the licensee used the license that he provided to them.
QuoteBig difference there.
I agree that Alan Moore selling out* to Hollywood and then bitching afterwords about what Hollywood did with what he sold them is different than H. Rider Haggard being a dead creator who was neither paid by Moore nor given a choice as to whether or not to let Alan Moore use his ideas. Haggard doesn't get to complain because his works is out of copyright and he is dead. Moore can complain because he is alive. But since he agreed on more than one occasion to license his creations, my sympathy for him not getting the movie he would have liked to see made but didn't pay for is limited. Not non-existent, but definitely limited.
* I know a license isn't a sale but I'm not using the term sale or the phrase "selling out" in a strictly legal sense.
I don't write gaming fanfic, but I read a fuckton of it. Except the publishers call them "novels" and sell them on Amazon. Seriously, all the 40k novels, Star Trek / Star Wars / Whatever novels, etc are all just pro-written fanfic and I devour that stuff like fries from McDonalds.
Did you see Cruesader's post about the new 40k army based off Genestealer Cults? My first thought was "ooh, I wonder if we're gonna get a novel?"
Quote from: tenbones;922117I'm in my Tron-suit. I'm ready to LARP. COME AT ME One Horse!!!!!!
I bask in the insane glory of this post.
Alas OHT, I must also don my Tron-suit and become ready to LARP.
[Psst, tenbones! WTF does that mean?]
Quote from: Doc Sammy;922122I'm sorry. Forgive me if I'm breaking any rules, I didn't know. And if I didn't break any rules then I'm sorry I upset you.
You're all good. Fanfic gets a bad rap.
Quote from: TristramEvans;922128Thats as far as I got before deciding I'd rather waste my time doing things that didn't hurt my brain
That was surprisingly fun fanfic...perhaps you have practiced this talent before?
Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;922137The only difference between "fanfiction" and normal fiction is one is on a shelf. Most myths are just old fanfiction.
Absolutely.
You double nailed it with the reference to myths.
Quote from: Doc Sammy;922190Is it wrong that I actually preferred the movie to the graphic novel?
Yes, citizen. Report to your nearest self-termination chamber.
Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;922137The hate for fanfiction is kind of random.
Not really. Fan fic isn't
inherently bad but there is an awful lot of fan fic out there that is very, very bad. There is a large amount of it that is basically unreadable. I don't mean stuff that is a bit hard to get through. I mean entire stories written in text speak without a single capital letter or punctuation mark in sight. All fan fic isn't terrible but a lot of it is and sorting costs are a thing.
Quote from: Cave Bear;922209Third, the inspirational superheroes for Watchmen were just that: inspirational. He didn't specifically use them by name.
Originally, he did. Those were supposed to be the original Charlton Comics characters. DC didn't want the characters ruined for future stories so they either asked Moore to change them or made him change them depending on who you believe. He made some minor costume changes and renamed them.
There was a Harry Potter Book (that supposedly 7 I think) I read. It was totally fan fiction, but it wasn't that horrible. It certainly had less plot holes then the actual books.
The flip side of pretentiousness is the virulent strain of anti-intellectualism that is so uniquely American
Quote from: J.L. Duncan;922245There was a Harry Potter Book (that supposedly 7 I think) I read. It was totally fan fiction, but it wasn't that horrible. It certainly had less plot holes then the actual books.
Harry Potter itself is much more enjoyable if one thinks of it as Troll fanfiction.
(http://wherethelongtailends.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/troll.jpg)
RPG fanfic? Isn't that where Weiss and Hickman made their careers? Not to mention the rest of the TSR books stable. Much of it being of the expected quality for fanfic.
The original Dragonlance trilogy might be more properly an RPG novelization than a fanfic, as iirc it was based on actual campaign.
All the GW Black Library fiction is definitely gaming fanfic, although that is wargames not RPGs.
Ray Feist wrote a great Tekumel fanfic series...
Quote from: Spinachcat;922231That was surprisingly fun fanfic...perhaps you have practiced this talent before?
In the early aughts some friends and I encountered a fanfic online by the title of "Deathworld". It was a massive undertaking, spanning close to a thousand pages,written by a fellow going by the screen name Supermutant. And it was a work of unintentional comedic genius that puts "The Room" to shame. We would print chapters and nightly go to an overnight diner, taking turns reading aloud until the tears and laughter prevented one of us from continuing. My fanfic is a shallow imitation of Deathworld's style. Almost a fanfic of a fanfic.
Quote from: yosemitemike;922237Not really. Fan fic isn't inherently bad but there is an awful lot of fan fic out there that is very, very bad. There is a large amount of it that is basically unreadable. I don't mean stuff that is a bit hard to get through. I mean entire stories written in text speak without a single capital letter or punctuation mark in sight. All fan fic isn't terrible but a lot of it is and sorting costs are a thing.
Well, sure, but that's just the crap. It's like saying movies are bad because of all the bad B-list films stocking the shelves. The good ones that rise to the top are a minority. There's good fics out there too. But yes, that requires finding them. Normally easier done via communities that tend to read them since you can find out through word of mouth what's good.
Yeah, I was being sarcastic earlier, good fan-fiction exists.
The way some of you define fan-fiction though is so ridiculously broad as to be meaningless. You may as well just call it fiction and be done with it then.
Quote from: TristramEvans;922253The flip side of pretentiousness is the virulent strain of anti-intellectualism that is so uniquely American
Oh sure, knee jerk anti-intellectualism is annoying and one sees it a lot here in America and it is more broadly accepted here than in a lot of countries - though most countries seem to have an anti-intellectual strain be that yobs in the UK or Mao's Cultural Revolution. But sometimes the flip side of pretension is simply a
doesn't take itself too seriously, bucket o' popcorn Saturday afternoon movie. Or a typical session of an RPG, to use an example that is likely to be familiar to all of us.
Quote from: CRKrueger;922266The way some of you define fan-fiction though is so ridiculously broad as to be meaningless. You may as well just call it fiction I don't respect and be done with it then.
I think you forgot a key phrase.
Quote from: Bren;922272Oh sure, knee jerk anti-intellectualism is annoying and one sees it a lot here in America and it is more broadly accepted here than in a lot of countries - though most countries seem to have an anti-intellectual strain be that yobs in the UK or Mao's Cultural Revolution. But sometimes the flip side of pretension is simply a doesn't take itself too seriously, bucket o' popcorn Saturday afternoon movie. Or a typical session of an RPG, to use an example that is likely to be familiar to all of us.
I think you forgot a key phrase.
Creative writing is a worthy endeavor for anyone to undertake, however, in the words of the immortal philosopher Clint, "A man's got to know his limitations".
Also, paid work approved by owners of IP, Shared Worlds Fiction (like Thieves' World), pastiche or Aesop's Fables aren't examples of fan-fiction, no matter how much you dis/like the concept.
Sturgeon's Law applies. Also, Jesus, TristramEvans, that was positively Eye of Argon-esque. You win one Internet.
I think the problem most people have with fanfic is not that it's by fans, or that it's unoriginal. It's that almost by definition it's self-indulgent. It's not about writing a good story that other people will enjoy; it's about writing a story that strokes the author's particular fetish for the source material, and that's rarely meaningful to anyone but the author.
QuoteI saw a talk by a creative writing professor who encouraged her students to write fan-fiction. She said it removed a lot of the hassle of coming up with a setting and characters and such and let the students dig right into the work of telling the story and getting all the parts working together. Makes sense to me.
I would violently disagree with this, if for no other reason than that coming up with a setting and characters and such
is part of the work of telling the story.
Quote from: CRKrueger;922276Creative writing is a worthy endeavor for anyone to undertake, however, in the words of the immortal philosopher Clint, "A man's got to know his limitations".
Also, paid work approved by owners of IP, Shared Worlds Fiction (like Thieves' World), pastiche or Aesop's Fables aren't examples of fan-fiction, no matter how much you dis/like the concept.
I'll agree that paid work approved by owners of IP, Shared Worlds Fiction and the like aren't fan-fiction, but how is pastiche like, say, "The Seven Per Cent Solution" not fanfiction?
That said, the R. Taslorian Games folks had once linked to a fanfic based off of their Mekton Empire background - I think this is it: ftp://ftp.eyrie.org/pub/anime/Mekton/. IIRC, it was never finished, but it was a fun read until you reached the end.
Huh... did they ever release Mekton Zero? I'm guessing not.
Quote from: CRKrueger;922276Also, paid work, Shared Worlds Fiction, pastiche, Aesop's Fables aren't examples of fan-fiction, no matter how much you dis/like it.
Fan fiction is usually thought of as amateur writing. So if you got paid for the work then in a technical sense it is "professional" in that you got paid for it and so it is not amateur and thus is not fan fiction. I'm with you so far. Most (or at least a lot of) fiction that eventually is published and paid for is written prior to and without a guarantee of payment, but we don't typically consider all writing like that fan fiction unless and until the author manages to sell their story. I've read some pretty poorly written fiction that still got the author a paycheck. I recall one series of post apocalyptic, gun-porn novels that a friend of mine bought. I read one or two of them. Awful dreck. This was back in the 1980s (I think) when word processors were novel. This author was clearly enchanted with his brand new word processor and wanted to use it to the full because he lifted entire paragraphs of description about his "twin Detonics .45s" from the beginning of one novel and repetitively* dropped it verbatim throughout the rest of that novel as well as liberally littering the subsequent books with the same word-for-word, boring description.
So, Humpty Dumpty like, when I say "fan-fiction" I am focused far more on the lack of quality, self-indulgence of the topic, and general awfulness of the writing than I am on the question of
would anyone buy this for a dollar.
* I'm well aware of the technique of formulaic repetition used in oral storytelling, but let me assure you, the only Homer that this author resembled has the last name
Simpson.
Quote from: Bren;922284Fan fiction is usually thought of as amateur writing. So if you got paid for the work then in a technical sense it is "professional" in that you got paid for it and so it is not amateur and thus is not fan fiction. I'm with you so far. Most (or at least a lot of) fiction that eventually is published and paid for is written prior to and without a guarantee of payment, but we don't typically consider all writing like that fan fiction unless and until the author manages to sell their story. I've read some pretty poorly written fiction that still got the author a paycheck. I recall one series of post apocalyptic, gun-porn novels that a friend of mine bought. I read one or two of them. Awful dreck. This was back in the 1980s (I think) when word processors were novel. This author was clearly enchanted with his brand new word processor and wanted to use it to the full because he lifted entire paragraphs of description about his "twin Detonics .45s" from the beginning of one novel and repetitively* dropped it verbatim throughout the rest of that novel as well as liberally littering the subsequent books with the same word-for-word, boring description.
So, Humpty Dumpty like, when I say "fan-fiction" I am focused far more on the lack of quality, self-indulgence of the topic, and general awfulness of the writing than I am on the question of would anyone buy this for a dollar.
* I'm well aware of the technique of formulaic repetition used in oral storytelling, but let me assure you, the only Homer that this author resembled has the last name Simpson.
"THE SURVIVALIST!" oh yeah, I had every one of those. John Rourke, ultimate bad ass! Laugh, made for fun reading in those days.
Quote from: jcfiala;922280I'll agree that paid work approved by owners of IP, Shared Worlds Fiction and the like aren't fan-fiction, but how is pastiche like, say, "The Seven Per Cent Solution" not fanfiction?
That could be both. Since Holmes is Public Domain, I suppose you could call all Sherlock Holmes fiction that wasn't expressly authorized by the Doyle estate as fan-fiction of a sort. If that author is also specifically trying to imitate Arthur Conan Doyle's style, then it is also pastiche. But the definition of pastiche itself has nothing to do with fan-fiction. If I create a Sword and Sorcery world and characters from whole cloth, it's not fan-fiction obviously, but if I consciously try to imitate the writing style and plots of Robert E. Howard's Kull the Conqueror then it is pastiche.
Both definitions are a little fuzzy around the edges, but they do have edges.
Take Dan Abnett's Gaunt's Ghosts stuff. It's obviously not a setting he created, but the Tanith First and Only and many of the other characters and worlds are wholly his inventions authorized by the holders of the IP. Not fan-fiction by any stretch of the definition.
most of fan fiction (https://www.rpgsolo.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=4) in the wild is utter shite (https://www.rpgsolo.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=12), full of bad prose and Mary Sue/Marty-Stu crap. The same applies to self-published fiction, which is really fan fiction they're charging you for. My best guess as to why there is so much shite would be the lack of gate keepers.
Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;922258Well, sure, but that's just the crap. It's like saying movies are bad because of all the bad B-list films stocking the shelves. The good ones that rise to the top are a minority. There's good fics out there too. But yes, that requires finding them. Normally easier done via communities that tend to read them since you can find out through word of mouth what's good.
There's a lot of crap though. The signal to noise ratio on fanfic sites is very low. The fact that anyone can upload anything to a site like Wattpad at no cost and with no vetting means there is a lot of crap and no floor for quality. There are gems but they are lost on the sea of crap. Finding them costs time whether that time is spent reading lots of crap or reading what the community is saying, separating the noise from the signal there and then using that. Sorting costs are a thing.
Quote from: rgrove0172;922305"THE SURVIVALIST!" oh yeah, I had every one of those. John Rourke, ultimate bad ass! Laugh, made for fun reading in those days.
Yeah that was it. Jerry Ahearn. Whatta tool. I forgot the "Colt Python .357 Magnum revolver Magna-ported and Metalifed, firing Federal Premium jacketed hollowpoint ammunition, with extra speed loaders." :rolleyes:
I think there are some basic differences between a licensed, published book and a fanfic that make equating the two things dubious. Published books based on a property are formally licensed and formally published with an eye on sales and profits. They have to go through the publishing process before they are printed and sent out to stores. That doesn't guarantee they will be good. However, they will meet some minimal standard for layout and readability. Fanfic is informal, almost always done without any license or permission and not intended for sale. As a result, it does not have to meet even a minimal standard for readability. A large chunk of it is essentially unreadable gibberish. I mean the kind of lazy, sloppy writers who can't be bothered to type out y-o-u or hit the shift key and the apostrophe key to type I'm. I could probably make some sense of this crap if I spent enough time going over it but I have other things I would rather do with my time. All fanfic isn't like this but the stereotype of fanfic being rubbish didn't come from nowhere. A great deal of it is rubbish and the worst of it is much worse that any professionally published, for pay book will ever be. Fanfic isn't all bad but its reputation for being bad didn't come from nowhere.
I was an agent's assistant at UCLA and I was a (miserably failed) independent agent afterward. Let me assure you that the quality of fanfic is the quality of work that shows up submitted to agencies.
...which is why the Real Deal Agencies don't take unsolicited submissions.
It's small agencies who dug through shit piles looking for diamonds in the rough. In LA, we got tons of screenplays - and most apparently written by people who never saw a movie or watched TV.
I am not kidding.
Zero kidding.
The quality of amateur writing was so extremely bad. 90% of it was nigh-unreadable...and I was paid to read it. The goal was to find "hey, we can work with this" and we would be lucky if I came across one of those out of dozens of submissions.
So of course 99% of fanfic is going to be shit.
Let's also remember that published work gets the benefit of an editor.
Editors are (mostly) fabulous.
Quote from: CRKrueger;922313Take Dan Abnett's Gaunt's Ghosts stuff. It's obviously not a setting he created, but the Tanith First and Only and many of the other characters and worlds are wholly his inventions authorized by the holders of the IP. Not fan-fiction by any stretch of the definition.
I am a huge Abnett fan, but what if GW didn't pay him? What if, for whatever reason, Dan was slinging hash during the day and posting Gaunt's Ghost on a 40k fanfic blog at night?
If its the same text, why is one legitimate and the other not?
Quote from: Spinachcat;922376The quality of amateur writing was so extremely bad. 90% of it was nigh-unreadable...and I was paid to read it. The goal was to find "hey, we can work with this" and we would be lucky if I came across one of those out of dozens of submissions.
Now imagine if every thing that got submitted to you was passed on and published with no weeding at all and no editing or revision.
[video=youtube;MR7uaIFVFiM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MR7uaIFVFiM[/youtube]
Quote from: Spinachcat;922376I am a huge Abnett fan, but what if GW didn't pay him? What if, for whatever reason, Dan was slinging hash during the day and posting Gaunt's Ghost on a 40k fanfic blog at night?
If its the same text, why is one legitimate and the other not?
If he were a part-time amateur writer posting material on a blog without the benefit of an editor, would it be the same text?
Quote from: yosemitemike;922382Now imagine if every thing that got submitted to you was passed on and published with no weeding at all and no editing or revision.
Exactly!!
If the fanfic site does not have gatekeepers (most don't), then the reader takes on the responsibility.
Many fanfic authors - even rank amateurs - have enough respect for their audience to do rewrites because they take pride in their work.
Very few fanfic authors engage even a volunteer editor. Which is understandable. Editing is hard, and not particularly fun.
And without gatekeepers and editors, of course 90% of fanfic will be crap.
But how is that different than wandering through DeviantArt or other art sites? There's lots of bad amateur fan art out there, but that doesn't draw the same ire as fanfic.
Maybe because it only takes a second to skip past bad art?
Quote from: yosemitemike;922382If he were a part-time amateur writer posting material on a blog without the benefit of an editor, would it be the same text?
Only Dan and his editors can tell us how much his final draft was affected by editors.
But you make a valid point.
For argument's sake, let's say that Gaunt's Ghost:the 40k fanfic was 75% as good as the published novel, thus making it equal or better than most published 40k novels. Would it still be illegitimate?
Maybe its because I like up-and-coming bands. I really respect young bands doing the club circuit and trying to get on the B stage at the festival, because that's how the future champions will rise. It's amazing when you see photos of [insert a hundred successful bands] when they were in the first years. People may like to say "I always knew they would make it", but night after night, they were just another band trying to make rent.
That's how I view fanfic.
Out of the sea of terrible noise, some real talent will rise.
Quote from: Spinachcat;922393Maybe because it only takes a second to skip past bad art?
Bingo!
Fanfic doesn't mean bad, any more than a traditionally published novel means good. But saying if anyone except Rick Priestly writes a 40k novel it's a fanfic, is stretching the definition too far IMO.
What Ream said above is a pretty good rule of thumb as to what you'll find fits the definition of a majority of fanfiction - an unauthorized use of other's settings and characters that typically interacts with a MarySue character reflecting the author, or focuses on the author's fanservice with those characters rather than a good story. Hell, some fanfics these days aren't even short stories, they're just sex scenes.
When 90% of everything is crap, 95% of unedited writing is crap and 99.999% of fanfic are crap, those are statistically significant and poor quality becomes part of the definition.
But...in these days where agents aren't even going to look at an author unless they submit a very narrow corporate-accepted type of text, tick enough "new voices" boxes (author possesses the proper Identity) or belong the proper G+ groups or have the right friends on Facebook, then what choice does a new author have? They try to go it alone, self-publish, buy ads themselves, and hope to bottle lightning. Some don't even care about publishing, they just write. I respect all of that.
However, when something gets a bad reputation, it usually doesn't just fall out of the sky. Fanfiction has more than earned it's bad name. The culture intersects with social media, IP fanatics, and the worst of stereotypical geekdom to produce not just ream upon ream of total shit, but entitled, self-indulgent shit, ignorant of all criticism, and dismissive of anything resembling the concept of quality.
Still, there are good writers out there using the medium to hone their craft, and potentially through social media and things like Patreon, maybe even get noticed.
Like everything else it touches, to writing, the Internet brings both Salvation and the Sword.
Quote from: CRKrueger;922413Fanfiction has more than earned it's bad name.
Very true.
I was very excited to see if Amazon's Kindle Worlds would be a success, but it seems to be very hit and miss.
https://kindleworlds.amazon.com/worlds
Quote from: CRKrueger;922413The culture intersects with social media, IP fanatics, and the worst of stereotypical geekdom to produce not just ream upon ream of total shit, but entitled, self-indulgent shit, ignorant of all criticism, and dismissive of anything resembling the concept of quality.
Ugh, doubly true.
I do separate "fanfic" (aka, the actual work) from "fanfic culture" (which can be a freaking cesspool).
Does anyone know whether the fan fic world has a culture of criticism? In writers workshops, you'll have fellow travellers critique your work and they can be quite candid...even brutal. Feedback is useful, though,
Quote from: yosemitemike;922382Quote from: Spinachcat;922376The quality of amateur writing was so extremely bad. 90% of it was nigh-unreadable...and I was paid to read it. The goal was to find "hey, we can work with this" and we would be lucky if I came across one of those out of dozens of submissions.
Now imagine if every thing that got submitted to you was passed on and published with no weeding at all and no editing or revision.
[video=youtube;MR7uaIFVFiM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MR7uaIFVFiM[/youtube]
It is 7:56AM and this video has caused me to start drinking. Heavily.
Quote from: ArrozConLeche;922429Does anyone know whether the fan fic world has a culture of criticism?
This has not been my experience, likely due to GSF#1.
Quote from: ArrozConLeche;922429Does anyone know whether the fan fic world has a culture of criticism? In writers workshops, you'll have fellow travellers critique your work and they can be quite candid...even brutal. Feedback is useful, though,
Generally speaking, no. Watch the first 12 seconds or so of that video I posted. That's exaggerated but not by much. AMV creators are even worse.
Certainly can't say that I care for any fanfiction. Though sometimes it's at least a bit less pretentious than in-game fiction in published books.