Quote from: StuartIt seems my collection of Palladium Robotech RPG books isn't complete after all!  I didn't know they printed these during the 90s:

* Robotech RPG Adventures: Zentraedi Breakout
* Robotech RPG Book 7: New World Order
* Robotech RPG Book 8: Strike Force

I thought they took the franchise out in a blaze of glory with Lancer's Rockers.

Nope, thankfully. Zentraedi Breakout covers South America during the "rise of the southern cross" years, and its fairly good.
New World Order is set in Africa. Its not nearly as good IMO.
Strike Force was the last book, which had a fairly forgetable adventure, but it also featured a SHITLOAD of new mecha (including a transformable car, and new destroids and all kinds of stuff), which was good.

RPGPundit

Quote from: joewolzAnd yet it will keep Palladium afloat.

Two things would have to happen for that to be the case: 1. It's have to actually make it to print. 2. People would have to care enough to buy it.

Seanchai

Quote from: SeanchaiTwo things would have to happen for that to be the case: 1. It's have to actually make it to print. 2. People would have to care enough to buy it.

Seanchai

Hey, Seanchai!   How the hell are ya?  I haven't seen you in a long while.

Well, obviously I care about a Robotech RPG.  I sincerely wish that Palladium wasn't the one doing a new one.  I think I'd rather just about anyone else got the license.

Recently, I've been thinking even Coda would be a halfway decent fit.

But anyway, I think Robotech is fairly suitable for a RPG property.  It has a decent installed long term fanatical base (after all, they have resold DVDs of the series several times now), which hasn't had cool new goodies in a long time.  Plus, I'd wager that a good chunk of them are RPG fans because of the popularity of the game in the late 80s and the semi-omnipresence of Palladiumbooks.  New people are being exposed through the DVDs (and didn't the show recently get a cable airing?) and if the Shadow Chronicles series goes through (and Funimation has allegedly already agreed to foot half the bill), then there's a new possible audience.  In a way, it's like a smaller version of Star Trek fandom of the 70s.

So, I think people care.  If a flash in the pan property like Firefly/Serenity can spawn a RPG, I'm pretty sure Robotech can find an audience.

Ironically, many people over at the Robotech.com boards are under the impression that Palladium will use d20 and revise the game.

Quote from: GabrielWell, obviously I care about a Robotech RPG.  I sincerely wish that Palladium wasn't the one doing a new one.  I think I'd rather just about anyone else got the license.

On this point I agree.   I think Palladium is too far behind the times.  I think their major problem is they wont change and thats why sales are slipping and people are getting sick of their crap.

Quote from: GabrielBut anyway, I think Robotech is fairly suitable for a RPG property.  It has a decent installed long term fanatical base (after all, they have resold DVDs of the series several times now), which hasn't had cool new goodies in a long time.  Plus, I'd wager that a good chunk of them are RPG fans because of the popularity of the game in the late 80s and the semi-omnipresence of Palladiumbooks.  New people are being exposed through the DVDs (and didn't the show recently get a cable airing?) and if the Shadow Chronicles series goes through (and Funimation has allegedly already agreed to foot half the bill), then there's a new possible audience.  In a way, it's like a smaller version of Star Trek fandom of the 70s.

So, I think people care.  If a flash in the pan property like Firefly/Serenity can spawn a RPG, I'm pretty sure Robotech can find an audience.

This is where I disagree with you.   Robotech while it has resold DVD's has probably only resold to  fans who want to pick up old episodes.  

Playing Devils Advocate- How many of those people are gamers and or still are gamers?  Probably a small number.

Not to mention that Firefly/Serenity had a show and movie recently, not nearly 20 years ago.   A new Robotech game will sell a few copies, but a license is expensive and I doubt it will  be worth it to Palladium (and could end up putting them in worse shape moneywise due to the expense of the license).

And knowing Palladiums reputation for getting games out (Mechanoids Space anyone?  Its only 10 years late) if a game actually gets out it will most likely be rushed and not really be good.

Palladium needs to come up with solid new products (even some that dont use the Palladium system and branch out  and try to build back their fanbase.

Recycling and outdated system and old material  while adding only a little new material isnt going to work, gamers want better then that.

Quote from: Blue DevilAnd knowing Palladiums reputation for getting games out (Mechanoids Space anyone?  Its only 10 years late) if a game actually gets out it will most likely be rushed and not really be good.

Palladium needs to come up with solid new products (even some that dont use the Palladium system and branch out  and try to build back their fanbase.

Recycling and outdated system and old material  while adding only a little new material isnt going to work, gamers want better then that.

On this stuff we agree.  

To borrow some terminology from Pundit, Palladium has become rather swinish in the past few years (retro-swine?).  Kevin Siembieda really seems to be focusing on fluff lately.  A recent preview of Rifts Sourcebook 1 reeked of the wannabe writer stuck in RPGs syndrome.  For the past several years, there has been an ever increasing Palladium mantra that rules don't matter and only story is important.  And there's the ever present excuse from all poor designers that "if there's a problem, it's with you, not the game."  

In a recent interview, Kevin Siembieda basically dodges every question about rules and stat updates in the new Robotech RPG.  He didn't really need to, from his past statements and actions it's crystal clear he sees a new Robotech RPG merely as a cut & paste reprint job like Rifts Ultimate Edition.  The funny thing is that while he's utterly ignoring fan complaints about the rules, he is "90% certain" that Palladiumbooks will produce the RPG in a "manga format."

Well, that explains how he intends to reprint Sentinels with some material removed and increase the page count, going the undersize format route.

I really wish KS would take some effort, talk with some people who actually try to game with his system as written, and revise the engine.

But here's a sad thought.  I got BESM3 yesterday.  For all I complained about GoO, they really did seem to listen to complaints, comments, and suggestions.  In his foreword to BESM3, McKinnon states that BESM1 was written for him while BESM2 and 3 were written for fans to address their input.  The sad thing is that GoO is dead and gone.  They apparrently couldn't survive by listening to fans and improving their material.  Yet, Palladium merely asks for and receives handouts while cranking out error ridden recycled stuff.

Quote from: Blue DevilOn this point I agree. I think Palladium is too far behind the times. I think their major problem is they wont change and thats why sales are slipping and people are getting sick of their crap.
 
 

Palladium's online sales are up overall. The last few Rifts world books have also met with a generally favorable critical response and the perception along a lot of Palladium fans that they had returned to the "old school" Rifts feel. Myself, yeah, I wouldnt' mind seeing some streamlining of the rules, but I'm happy with the crop of freelancers they have right now and the direction they're going. Besides, I play Rifts not just with the Megaversal system, but from everything from Risus to True20. To me, good Rifts fluff is the best part.
 
And Kev is about the furthest thing from Swine there is. You may hate what the dude does with his games, but he's an old-school Gamer who wears his heart on his sleeve when it comes to gaming, believes in creating new worlds, and still believes throwin’ them bones is a pretty cool HOBBY.

Quote from: GabrielHey, Seanchai!   How the hell are ya?  I haven't seen you in a long while.

Well, one of my best friends and a guy who helped make gaming rock is moving back to Colorado tomorrow and we're all going to start a new nWoD Werewolf campaign on Sunday (because we finished playtesting nWoD Changeling last session). So, to answer your question, pretty damn good!

Quote from: GabrielWell, obviously I care about a Robotech RPG.

Yeah. The guy whom I mentioned above is a big fan, too. I watched the show on TV and have the RPG, but that's about the limit of my fandom. But I know there are plenty of fans still out there.

But the first component to making this work for Palladium is getting the license. Last I heard, they felt it was basically a done deal, but it wasn't official yet. That may have changed, but until they have the signed contract in hand, things could change (just ask AEG and Eden).

Then they have to get the books to market. I would imagine they're probably just going to "update" the material they have now, but unless they've changed, they'll be using 60 year old technology to lay out the "updated" material. I imagine they're pretty adept at using it, but to my understanding, camera ready art is harder to work with at the printer than a digital file and can slow down the process.

And then there's the approval process. Since this is a license, the licensor has to approve the work. Harmony Gold may well be different, but in general, this is a pain in the ass (just as AEG and Eden).

Once they get the book ready comes the hard part: They have to overcome the potential consumer's objections to purchasing the product. There are plenty of fans, but there are still plenty of reasons not to purchase the product: price, quality, support, new versus old content, etc..

If Palladium really wants to milk their license, they need to seriously crunch the rules and fiddly bits of the game, adding as much new content as they possibly can, and start an ad campaign *today* reminding fans why they love Robotech.

That probably won't happen, however...

Quote from: GabrielIf a flash in the pan property like Firefly/Serenity can spawn a RPG, I'm pretty sure Robotech can find an audience.

Speaking as a big Firefly fan, a guy who's played the RPG and who has everything they've put out for it, it doesn't appear to be sustainable. Margaret Weis Productions hasn't put out a new Serenity product in a year (but are still paying licensing fees).

Seanchai

I'm sticking with my predictions:

* It will make a modest amount of money.  It's a name, but an old name.  On the other hand, nearly 2000 people bought a terrible art print for $50 so it's hard to see how even the worst RPG book in the world couldn't make them some money.

* It will probably not see print this year.  If it does, it will be late in Q4.  They've already pushed it back 3 months once.  I can't remember if the contracts are even finalized for it yet.

* It will be 95% cut and paste.  Expect up to 12 completely new pages to cover the entirety of the Shadow Chronicles material.  The rest of the space will be taken up with reprinted material.  Missing data will likely occur, as will copy/paste sections that don't make sense in the context they are presented.

* Eratta for the book will come out sometime after 2012 - just as soon as they are done posting the one for R:UE

Quote from: jgantsit yet.
 
* It will be 95% cut and paste.

Here I have to disagree. I have reason to believe it will not be anything CLOSE to that, or even a majority or large minority. (I think you're being a litte facetious, but there's a little truth in every joke...)
 
I'm not touchin' that errata one.

Quote from: Zachary The FirstHere I have to disagree. I have reason to believe it will not be anything CLOSE to that, or even a majority or large minority.

Having been burned on the Ultimate Rifts, I have to disagree.

Seanchai

Quote from: jgants* It will make a modest amount of money.  It's a name, but an old name.  On the other hand, nearly 2000 people bought a terrible art print for $50 so it's hard to see how even the worst RPG book in the world couldn't make them some money.

It'll make money. Palladium fans and Rifts fans will buy it. But will it be successful? Will it make enough money to break even or sustain a product line? Will it help Palladium avoid closing their doors?

Producing a game line is expensive enough without adding delays and licensing fees to the mix. Personally, given the history of licensed games in the industry, I don't know why game companies bother.

Seanchai

Quote from: SeanchaiHaving been burned on the Ultimate Rifts, I have to disagree.
 
Seanchai

I'm talking about the writing in the recent World Books and Dimension Books.  Dinosaur Swamp, Arzno, Madhaven--even the Megaverse Builder.  Good stuff, all, and well-written.  Less guns and toys (though still plenty to be had), and plenty of good descriptive stuff that makes a good amount snese (for Rifts). I thought Palladium hit a low spot there for a while with some past World Books, but I'm encouraged by the new talent.

Quote from: jgantsMissing data will likely occur, as will copy/paste sections that don't make sense in the context they are presented.

Like in Robotech II: The Sentinels where the mecha combat rules are given but the regular combat rules which give the context to understand the mecha combat rules are omitted.

But the Palladium excuse for that is it's the reader's fault.  They just need to go out and buy another Palladium book to cover that omission.

Quote from: Zachary The FirstI'm talking about the writing in the recent World Books and Dimension Books.  Dinosaur Swamp, Arzno, Madhaven--even the Megaverse Builder.

I'm talking about the latest Rifts core rulebook, which was a big cut and paste job. I'm sure books they have to write from scratch aren't handled that way. But based on how they handled the "new" version of Rifts, I'd put bet money that huge swaths of it will be recycled from the old book.

Seanchai

NDAs suck, but I think if or when you do see the new RT book, you may be surprised by the compostion therein as far as recycled/unrecycled stuff.  Elsewise, I suppose we just disagree here.