I've yet to meet a group (myself included) that was capable of exploring a theme in an interesting way.  Hell, most professional writers aren't capable of exploring a theme in an interesting way: that's why adventure and romance are so popular.

Quote from: The Butcher;367905I usually default to the "give players what they want" school of GMing.

If I wanted a game to explore an overarching theme, I'd probably sit down with the prospective players and ask something like, "who wants to play a Starblazer Adventures game with "culture shock" and "what does it mean to be human" as themes?"

The approach I used here was the opposite: we put it together, and announced it.... and waited to see who would want to try it out:

http://house-of-exile.wikidot.com/characters

That's 13 players so far (you'll see me on there twice, too.. I didn't count myself.. the idea is eventually one of the other players will take over and write/run some adventures as well). We run overlapping groups (West Marches style! hah..) One private group on Tuesday (at my apartment) and one on Thursday in public that we allow (almost) anyone to join.. Sometimes there is overlap, and sometimes we bring a guy from the public group over on Tuesdays.

Quote from: Abyssal Maw;367904I sent you the guidelines over at Enworld

You did? Got no PM, if that's what you meant. I appreciated your posting directions where to download stuff at the RPGA, though. Thanks for that.

Check your PMs here.

Oh, and in the interst of furthering my own amusement, (and goblins busting through walls): The 4E FRCS has some extremely useful campaign details for running a campaign in the underdark- the region we used was Great Bhaerynden, which has tons of history. I'm already planning the adventure where the party stumbles into an isolated section of caves that has a remnant of Telantiwar from before the great collapse. Although sadly, an admitted a dearth of details for the goblins and how they can be constantly busting through walls.

Quote from: Abyssal Maw;367912Check your PMs here.

Oh, and in the interst of furthering my own amusement, (and goblins busting through walls): The 4E FRCS has some extremely useful campaign details for running a campaign in the underdark- the region we used was Great Bhaerynden, which has tons of history. I'm already planning the adventure where the party stumbles into an isolated section of caves that has a remnant of Telantiwar from before the great collapse. Although sadly, an admitted a dearth of details for the goblins and how they can be constantly busting through walls.

Didn't take long.

A lot of it is just asking the players to have certain personality traits for their characters and play them to their disadvantage. It is difficult.

The GM has the easy part. He just does what he always does.

I like it. I get sick to fucking death of every character being as ruthless as a Romulan and as logical as a Vulcan.

Quote from: Cranewings;367917I get sick to fucking death of every character being as ruthless as a Romulan and as logical as a Vulcan.

And as calculating as a Ferengi.

Wow, that's a love child from hell right there.

While I find the choice of Abyssal Maw themes to be too abstract for most players to care about there is nothing wrong with the concept itself. Certainly having players come up with background elements in the manner he described is a time honored technique to freshen a setting.

Understand if you just flit from setting to setting never stick with one for very long then all of this will seem like overkill. But stick with the same setting for years on end the experience of being freebooting adventurer will get old. Questions like I wonder what the thieves guild is like, a city guard, or being a member of a temple will come up eventually. Individual characters may explore these aspects but there are limitations when you stick just the model of the adventuring party.

I found that starting campaigns where everybody a member of a Temple of Mitra, the Brotherhood of the Lion, or the City-State Guard are a lot of fun. What especially nice to see the solutions and details that the player come with be used for background for the next campaign. The PC in the Majestic Wilderlands respect the City-State Guard even tho they are low level weenies stats wise. They respect them because they are the ones that came up with solutions to dealing with high level problems despite being low level weenies.

So while I focus on culture, organizations and religion for my theme campaign there no reason that the same technique can't be used for abstract things. Although it been my experience that player generally respond better when you pitch something concrete like being a member of X. Having everyone detail a romantic interest in certainly in the spirit of the technique.

As for the Forge bullshit. This is as far from Forge as you get. The game runs the way it is always is but now you have this common elements that ties everyone together. No different than say everybody happened to decide to play Rangers or Elves.

Quote from: estar;367933But stick with the same setting for years on end the experience of being freebooting adventurer will get old. Questions like I wonder what the thieves guild is like, a city guard, or being a member of a temple will come up eventually.

And thus we have what I call 'building a stronghold,' which is the adventurer connecting with the game world through acquired authority and responsibility, participation in institutions and organizations, property acquisition and development, and so forth.

Quote from: estar;367933I find the choice of Abyssal Maw themes to be too abstract for most players to care about

Are you kidding me? Hot lesbian chicks backstabbing each other while fellating on another being 'too abstract'? When the plots basically write themselves?

Windjammer: My first experiement with Adventuring Companies was called the Sisters of Shadow. It was meant to be a bit like VIP. "The Most Dangerous Bitches in Faerun"..  But we didn't have MyRealms back then, so it never took off.

Well, I don't feel it's that limited because of two reasons:

Reason #1- The original concept was "an exiled drow house", but then one of my Co-Dms had a military training program he had to complete. So we never ran the exile plot! All of this buildup right now that takes place in the comfort of "civilized" T'lindhet is going to change once he comes back. So the plots right now are very focused on taking care of a few things for their undead patrons.. But then the entire household of drow are going to be attacked by a rival household (rumors are stacking up already if you read the AP), and then move to a new domain in exile away from the city. At that point, the plots are bound to change, as well as the societal rules.

And before anyone asks- the plots aren't pre-written. The Co-DMs and I kinda bounce ideas around and then the adventure usually gets written or improvised off of notes in Google Wave on the day of the adventure or the day before.

Reason #2- at the end of the day- it's still Living Forgotten Realms. Once players get tired of the drow theme stuff, characters aren't stuck to doing that.. or even the Underdark...or even me as a DM. Let's say a player joins up, plays a drow for a couple of sessions and gets tired of it? Well, he can keep his character and just join the larger LFR, and now his character has a cool background. "Oh, my Drow has a past.. he used to be in a house called Rilyntel, in Great Bhaerynden..below the East Rift. But that was before I found my way to the surface and decided to be an adventurer..."

I also created a map of networked "routes" throughout/criss-crossing Great Bhaerynden (each route is it's own skill challenge), and one of them puts the characters out on the surface right near Delzimmer and another ends up closer to Earthheart. From there, they can join up with any surface-based party of adventurers. On April 1st, for example, we are going to run a slightly altered version of the official East Rift adventure "These Hallowed Halls"- which is meant to be a dwarven-sponsored expedition from Delzimmer to a fire temple in the Underdark.

Our version will lack some of the dwarven sponsorship.. and focus more on stealing the book that the dwarves want and ambushing the adventuring group that is assumed to also be looking for it.. but, same map, same basic idea.

And at GenCon, like I said, we plan on having a banner and shirts!

Whist I would never state things as clearly as AM and whislt my guys would reject the concepts as too theoretical we do this all the time.
As a DM I always have some element I am exploring something I want the game to revolve round and I will usually express it in the name of the campaign but then not refer to it directly. For me the 'themes' extend from the plot and the NPCs that drive the plot because characterisation is the key for me, but I can certainly see that a theme can cascade through the adventure.
Now I wouldn't use a romance thread but I might well use slavery or corruption. I woudln't expect the PCs to buy into a narrow premise but a couple of rolls on a random background generator sounds great.
And stuff like you are all members of the Corps d'Argent or followers of the Goddess Lillie are generally we always run things.
So I like the look of this. Must make a change for AM not to get flamed to death

Quote from: The Shaman;367942And thus we have what I call 'building a stronghold,' which is the adventurer connecting with the game world through acquired authority and responsibility, participation in institutions and organizations, property acquisition and development, and so forth.

That not what I am talking about, although it happens in various campaigns I ran. I am referring to running the same setting for thirty years with different campaigns, players, and characters. I have few that been with the Majestic Wilderlands since the beginning.

Quote from: Windjammer;367946Are you kidding me? Hot lesbian chicks backstabbing each other while fellating on another being 'too abstract'? When the plots basically write themselves?

This is too abstract

QuoteRivalry and Romance, Decadence and Cruelty :Using a campaign theme

This is works much better as it something concrete that most players can relate too.

QuoteAlso, at first, when we created the characters, we had each PC establish either a love-interest, a bitter rival (or both- the PC Dravanna chose both as the same person).......

Quote from: estar;367933As for the Forge bullshit. This is as far from Forge as you get. The game runs the way it is always is but now you have this common elements that ties everyone together. No different than say everybody happened to decide to play Rangers or Elves.

I agree.

As for the whole thing being more abstract than say, being part of Group X or hired by Religion Y in the setting, or being all Rangers or Elves, I guess what really matters (as always really) is to have a good communication from the get-go, before the campaign even begins.

If GM and players agree in a session before play begins to say, create characters with backgrounds including losses and betrayals, the GM can then build a document of specific examples on how this can come into play, like for instance relating to the torture of some creature in the dungeon if your family was tortured then killed by a horde of barbarians in the character's background, etc. If the players are responsive and imaginative, this can go really far and indeed, add a ton of role playing flavor to the game to the point the campaign would go in some truly unexpected directions.

Such a document could explain how the GM intends to use plot hooks in the characters background, or a sample of the theme in play, and bullet points suggesting ways in which the players could themselves use the themes while role playing their characters. It could just take a page-or-so of light reading to get to the crux of it, and after that, it's up to the players to make the synergy happen at the game table.