Talislanta rises once more. (Disclaimer, I helped write the previous edition of Talislanta: The Savage Lands, I did not contribute directly to this edition. So take my opinions with a grain of salt. I'm biased, but I'm also pretty objective - they did a great job).
I just received my hardcopies... in a gorgeous slipcase (not my picture credit Gary Dowell from the Talislanta FB group)
(https://i.imgur.com/YTygKCn.jpeg)
It's technically the 6e of Talislanta, but it comes with a huge D&D5e Conversion book. This time, like the previous prequel edition, it's full color and gorgeous.
Here is the cover of the old 2e Talislanta
(https://i.imgur.com/fXfQUrV.png)
The new cover with the Thrall Warrior is much more S&S and says "yeah, come get it."
(https://i.imgur.com/vXf3jJi.png)
The book clocks in at 248-pages. Here's the table of contents:
(https://i.imgur.com/3PaWzXm.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/riCPeVy.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/0Mwv2Hq.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/G6PwaKT.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/trNd1Tc.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/d0mhPid.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/YCK9Gmd.png)
Each race and monster has its own page, full color. There is a Players Guide, Game Masters Guide, Atlas which covers all the history and regional stuff updated to the modern state which takes place after an event from years ago called the Beastman Uprising. Think Post-Greyhawk wars but much better.
The system is largely the same. Which is good. The Talislanta system is still one of the best ever created. There are rules for Windship combat, Mass Combat, techno-magic. The setting for those that are not familiar with Talislanta is very old-school S&S+High Fantasy. It is wondrous, brutal and awesome.
Skill based, but with "elements" of level acquisition (I'll explain later if anyone wants to know).
Magic - is like a hybrid of 2e and 3e. It gives you options of the "Vancian" (where you cast from memory). But you can also cast from written sources, but it takes twice as long to cast. You pick the spell from your list, you decide what level you want to cast it at. That's your penalty to cast it. You have spellcasting skill based on your archetype which you can increase like any other skill.
Magic casting uses the same Action table as any other skill. You do *not* want to fail or critically mishap (roll below 1), as you could blow your own head off.
My Thoughts on casual perusal
The system is complete, it's clean, and it covers literally everything you could want to do in the setting. It scales very high in terms of power-level. If you liked the older editions, you'll feel *right at home* here. It is 99% backwards compatible. The only thing that really has changed is the Magic System (which seems to change every edition) and those changes are ironically are still compatible with every other edition. You could literally have all magic systems from all editions running simultaneously without missing a beat.
You still only use one table - the glorious Action Table.
(https://i.imgur.com/drqL7mC.png)
And everything stems from Stat (which ranges from -5 to +5) + Skill +d20 and any modifiers due to environment/gear.
Anyhow, if anyone is interested - feel free to ask. For those that want to play a great game that is *not* D&D, but is old school, zero-woke bullshit, S&S and directly inspired by Jack Vance and a handful of mushrooms. Give it a try, you won't regret it.
Lastly - I haven't cracked the 5e conversion book because I don't really give a shit about 5e-D&D. I think it's a bad system to run Talislanta on, even though our conversion for 5e in the Talislanta: The Savage Lands edition which I helped write, was solid. If you guys want, I'll field and look up any questions you might have about the conversion book. It's HUGE.
Nary a pancho-wearing gaucho-orc was to be found.
(https://i.imgur.com/AcNOFYP.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/LUPhCsD.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/nlNZfSI.png)
Frazetta-fan approved
(https://i.imgur.com/yVMoBnh.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/h4pNx1m.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/tSEx2CV.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/viVCDA8.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/gD30kjZ.png)
Ninja representation
(https://i.imgur.com/7vrlGCs.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/WiAAbFq.png)
Edgelords!
(https://i.imgur.com/0j70M8s.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/eMwzh8N.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/epkfl8t.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/4d6oWqV.png)
And everything in-between. Don't get me started on the weird shit.
Do you know when this will be available for non-backers? I've been waiting for this to start delivery before I spent $.
That's a good question. A lot of people are asking on the Talislanta FB page now. The PDF's are available on Drive-Thru... but I've not seen anything about when they're going to get more books or if they're going to just do POD on DTRPG.
Hmm... I'll poke around behind the scenes.
Quote from: tenbones on December 05, 2024, 03:31:12 PMThat's a good question. A lot of people are asking on the Talislanta FB page now. The PDF's are available on Drive-Thru... but I've not seen anything about when they're going to get more books or if they're going to just do POD on DTRPG.
Hmm... I'll poke around behind the scenes.
They got rid of the Batrean Concubines, I heard.
Quote from: crkrueger on December 05, 2024, 03:33:36 PMThey got rid of the Batrean Concubines, I heard.
Hey what's up Big Green.
So now my eyebrows have been raised. Batreans never factored heavily into my games, tho my wife played one once, but sure enough. They've been removed.
I dug into it and it appears the publishers wanted to avoid "sex-trafficking" as an overt archetype, which was one of the changes they made. I'm not sure if the Batreans have been removed from the game as if "they never existed" or that they're part of the new status-quo where the Dark Coast has been over-run and they're effectively wiped out.
Another consideration is editorial has mentioned that some races simply didn't make the cut due to space and lack of real relevancy. They definitely wanted to narrow things down since there is such a metric ass-ton of content in Talislanta. Still.. while when you're talking about full-color spreads and pages dedicated to a fairly insignificant archetype... I get it... but it still rubs me wrong for the obvious reasons.
Hmm it's definitely a yellow-flag. Mainly because Talislanta fans already know what the deal is with the setting. It's already established trying to sell to the Woke crowd is a losing bet... they need to be selling to the OSR crowd that has never played Talislanta. I don't see why they can't understand this. Even among D&D players, most aren't reactionary Woke activists, they're just chewing the D&D cud.
It's a minor thing, but it grates. I do see that they tried to roll some of the Batrean schtick into other archetypes. Other players have noticed it too. Batreans narratively have been genocided it appears.
Strangely... I'm not sure what to think. They nuke the Batreans with narrative reasons (their region was invaded and decimated). They dance around it politely when asked - clearly they don't want to invoke the Woke mob upon them. But then they include the Thaecian Enchanter
(https://i.imgur.com/RS013W2.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/FeDxZ5b.png)
I guess it comes out in the wash. Its not like they're avoiding sexy-art, the usual slavery elements from the usual suspects are intact. So I guess we'll all have to decide for ourselves.
Weren't Batrean men brutish monsters? I'm saddened there will be no Dung Merchant Archetype.
I read that some of the midnight realms archetypes made it in. I need this bad. I have a complete Tal collection except for Savage Lands.
The books are beautiful.
Did Armite's make the cut?
Now that is some damned impressive art! Well done!
Quote from: M2A0 on December 05, 2024, 07:35:42 PMWeren't Batrean men brutish monsters? I'm saddened there will be no Dung Merchant Archetype.
I read that some of the midnight realms archetypes made it in. I need this bad. I have a complete Tal collection except for Savage Lands.
The books are beautiful.
Did Armite's make the cut?
Arimites are definitely in and they look great. I'll put some art up later.
Yeah the Batreans males are gone too. Nothing really prevents anyone from just putting them in, their stats are the same but you know.
The art is *spectacular*. It's a shame you don't have Savage Lands, it's gorgeous as well. Some of the art from that game made it in (monsters and such) The bestiary is also superb. I'll put up some pics of it as well.
Quote from: tenbones on December 05, 2024, 04:53:14 PMStrangely... I'm not sure what to think. They nuke the Batreans with narrative reasons (their region was invaded and decimated). They dance around it politely when asked - clearly they don't want to invoke the Woke mob upon them. But then they include the Thaecian Enchanter
(https://i.imgur.com/RS013W2.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/FeDxZ5b.png)
I guess it comes out in the wash. Its not like they're avoiding sexy-art, the usual slavery elements from the usual suspects are intact. So I guess we'll all have to decide for ourselves.
Well, "devout pleasure-seeker" can easily be spun as "sex-positive and empowered", which "harem slave girl" cannot. They're probably in the unenviable position of trying to please both sides. Trying to ride that narrow lines where the grognards won't feel they've betrayed the setting, and the wokies won't come around and throw rocks through their windows.
It looks like a quality product. Talislanta continues to interest me, though at this point I'm not optimistic on ever getting to play it. I'm in much the same boat as M2A0, in that I'd buy in if there's a reasonably priced hardcopy available. I rarely spend money on pdf-only, especially if it's something I'm buying as a collectible.
Do you know if there's been any talk of VTT support? Sadly that also has to play into my RPG buying decisions these days.
Quote from: tenbones on December 05, 2024, 04:53:14 PMStrangely... I'm not sure what to think. They nuke the Batreans with narrative reasons (their region was invaded and decimated). They dance around it politely when asked - clearly they don't want to invoke the Woke mob upon them. But then they include the Thaecian Enchanter
(https://i.imgur.com/RS013W2.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/FeDxZ5b.png)
I guess it comes out in the wash. Its not like they're avoiding sexy-art, the usual slavery elements from the usual suspects are intact. So I guess we'll all have to decide for ourselves.
You could just ask Secchi, couldn't you? Although he may not want to really talk about it, which I guess itself would be an answer.
From what I've read behind the scenes, it was more of a call from the publisher Everything Epic.
Edit: My observation is that someone alerted the mob at TBP and they started a thread listing all the objectionable material from the older editions and the groundswell started. My conjecture is that due to the general history and fragility of all Talislanta editions getting off the ground, they didn't want to risk it.
My personal experience with the rest of the team is that there were definitely a variety of political views but at no point did any of it affect me personally in developing The Savage Lands which is way more "hardcore" than older editions in terms of tone. I *assume* nothing different happened here except they took precautions (which is not the choice I would have made - unless it was a space issue, which I do understand). The rest of the game looks pretty rock-solid to me thus far. It's still pretty metal. I lament the Batreans... but whatever. It does make my eyes itch a little. But since I'll never know the truth, I'll let the game stand on its own.
Quote from: ForgottenF on December 05, 2024, 10:41:27 PMDo you know if there's been any talk of VTT support? Sadly that also has to play into my RPG buying decisions these days.
From the publisher: "We're looking into VTT solutions."
Arimite Revenant
(https://i.imgur.com/2j0UYNi.png)
Arimite Knife-Fighter
(https://i.imgur.com/j7rYXat.png)
Talislanta Atlas
All of it is excellent sandboxy, old-school goodness. Regional information with lots of encounter tables. It's wide open for you to create your own adventures. They go over cultures, worldviews, religions, and lots of little details to give GM's everything they need to get into the setting with lots of room to make it their own.
The encounter tables are customized for each region and range from a d100 table. There are a LOT of regions and therefore a LOT of Encounter Tables.
Water Encounter table sample
(https://i.imgur.com/csP5BId.png)
Finally they're going hard on the Baratus windship pirates. Which they've provided airship combat rules.
(https://i.imgur.com/40hXXaz.png)
Lots of huge monsters to fight.
Sea Dragon
(https://i.imgur.com/YWGcP8b.png)
Exotic kick-ass locales like...
Rajanistan - City of the Death Cults
(https://i.imgur.com/hHNClxY.png)
Rajan City of Irdan
(https://i.imgur.com/NXc5yRN.png)
The Maze-City of Altan
(https://i.imgur.com/lGv2A7F.png)
Lots of spells, regional gear, magic items, history and different ages of lore, including old High Sorcery content which is like Epic Level magic from D&D.
That Knife Fighter is awesome
Question: how does this fit with Atlantis 2nd Age and the Arcanum 30th? They're all basically the same game, same original crew, all owned by different entities. Does it all work without issue (as I would expect)?
Quote from: Brad on December 06, 2024, 06:33:48 PMQuestion: how does this fit with Atlantis 2nd Age and the Arcanum 30th? They're all basically the same game, same original crew, all owned by different entities. Does it all work without issue (as I would expect)?
Tal/Omni is really hasn't changed much since 4E.
I missed dynamic and curvaceous art. :) I didn't expect much from such an artistically fallen age. It's still reminiscent of 2010s MtG and that tightened portrait composition and washed out values with indistinct backgrounds... But it's better. :) Could be a function of computer art tools tempting over-rendering on portraiture and losing sight of the rest of the composition.
Eh, don't mind me. I'm just nostalgic for older art. ;)
I like the art. The game looks nice at least. I have the 2nd edition somewhere but havent played it. Mainly because i have more games i want to play than i have time. A funny anecdote, i always wrote the title as Tallatlanta to the point my old phone auto-suggests that when i try to write Talislanta.
Quote from: Brad on December 06, 2024, 06:33:48 PMQuestion: how does this fit with Atlantis 2nd Age and the Arcanum 30th? They're all basically the same game, same original crew, all owned by different entities. Does it all work without issue (as I would expect)?
similar system, but completely different settings. Atlantis is a sword and sorcery Conan type game.
Arcanum is fairly standard fantasy.
Tal is weird fantasy.
I've never heard of this game but that artwork is sick!
Still no elves right? I rember that as big selling point in the old Dragon ads.
Quote from: remial on December 08, 2024, 08:34:24 AMsimilar system, but completely different settings. Atlantis is a sword and sorcery Conan type game.
Arcanum is fairly standard fantasy.
Tal is weird fantasy.
Yeah, I have all the games, I was referring specifically to the newest versions of each. I got rid of all my Talislanta stuff except the first two editions; I was not a fan of the Savage Lands version nearly as much as the older ones.
Quote from: Brad on December 06, 2024, 06:33:48 PMQuestion: how does this fit with Atlantis 2nd Age and the Arcanum 30th? They're all basically the same game, same original crew, all owned by different entities. Does it all work without issue (as I would expect)?
Mechanically, they're 99% compatible. They all use the same Action Table, same stats. Only differences might be Skill Selection which is no big deal. Magic will be different, but all Talislanta-derived magic systems can be plug-n-play as desired. You can even have all of them working at the same time.
In terms of creators - they're all inter-related teams. Jerry Grayson is the owner and publisher of Khepera Publishing which made Atlantis the 2nd Age inspired completely from the original Bard Games' Arcanum RPG from the early 80's, which was created by Steve Sechi (and others).
Khepera Publishing released Atlantis: The 2nd Age, which used the Talislanta mechanics (Called the Omni System). The second edition of the Atlantis game would use the Khepera house-version of the Omni System called the Omega System which is a slightly modified version of the Talislanta system, and is still 99% backwards compatible.
In terms of setting - Atlantis and Talislanta are different settings, although there are elements that are easter-eggs that suggest they're connected. Talislanta has a lot of setting material that talks about interdimensional and even possible time-travel. It's a world that has been ravaged by magical chaos that has warped the world and its inhabitants massively (and in some cases continues to do so). One of those curiosities is the Ariane race, which appears in Atlantis as well as Talislanta.
Could you take your Talislanta/Atlantis characters and drop them in each other's settings? Absolutely. But they are different settings. While Atlantis is more S&S, Talislanta can *very much* be S&S depending on which region of the world you're playing in.
Quote from: Nobleshield on December 08, 2024, 09:47:25 AMI've never heard of this game but that artwork is sick!
Avail yourself of all the previous editions.
http://talislanta.com/talislanta-library
It is a superb system, and a very cool setting.
Quote from: Exploderwizard on December 08, 2024, 10:08:23 AMStill no elves right? I rember that as big selling point in the old Dragon ads.
Still no elves. Or humans. Or dwarves. But there are "gnomes".
Although there are analogs that kinda fit those "schticks" depending on how you like your non-human races served up.
Quote from: tenbones on December 09, 2024, 10:14:51 AMQuote from: Exploderwizard on December 08, 2024, 10:08:23 AMStill no elves right? I rember that as big selling point in the old Dragon ads.
Still no elves. Or humans. Or dwarves. But there are "gnomes".
Although there are analogs that kinda fit those "schticks" depending on how you like your non-human races served up.
nope, no elves. lots of stuff that LOOKS like elves tho. Basically back before the magic collapsed, pretty much everyone could shapeshift and take on any coloration they wanted, and these changes would breed true. So you have a LOT of variation in PC options.
I'm waiting on my copies of the hardcopies arriving.
Quote from: tenbones on December 09, 2024, 10:11:11 AMCould you take your Talislanta/Atlantis characters and drop them in each other's settings? Absolutely. But they are different settings. While Atlantis is more S&S, Talislanta can *very much* be S&S depending on which region of the world you're playing in.
Okay, I have played Tal a few times (literally 30 years ago at this point) so a question to see if I actually understand the setting...it's like a post-apocalyptic world ravaged by magic, so about as close to what D&D was trying to do as possible, maybe? It always reminded me of a cross between Yor and Krull, but I dunno, I could be totally wrong. Atlantis is obviously the best Conan RPG, though.
Now, that looks like a leviathan of books and material. I have always been curious about Talislanta, it's getting to hard to resist temptation.
Quote from: Brad on December 10, 2024, 10:45:01 PMOkay, I have played Tal a few times (literally 30 years ago at this point) so a question to see if I actually understand the setting...it's like a post-apocalyptic world ravaged by magic, so about as close to what D&D was trying to do as possible, maybe? It always reminded me of a cross between Yor and Krull, but I dunno, I could be totally wrong. Atlantis is obviously the best Conan RPG, though.
The short answer is: Yes
Talislanta history in a nutshell -
Thousands of years ago, a race called the Drakken rules (think of them as Dinosaur-dragon, the OG Dragonblooded). There were humanoids, colloquially known as "Sub-men" that squabbled with the Drakken, but were no match for them. The Drakken were simply too advanced in metallurgy, and they were simply smarter, but they had no magic.
Then this "thing" fell from the sky (let's not fuck around - it's a spaceship). One of the Sub-men tribes discovers the craft, and inside they find the Grand Orb of MacGuffin, from which they learn "magic". Is it magic? Fuck it - it is to them.
This tribe eventually organizes and starts to master their new toy, then they make war on the Drakken - after decades of war manage to beat them.
Time passes (centuries), and that tribe evolves into a civilization called the Archaens, and they leave the rest of their sub-men tribes behind both culturally and physiologically. Eventually they end up making war on the Sub-men too. Their mastery of magic becomes all-encompassing until the point where the centuries of warfare becomes pointless - they use their magic to raise their city-states into the sky itself.
They cede the entirety of the world below them to the Beast Men (as they're called now), who breed out of control, meanwhile they live in the skies getting wtf-debaucherous. They spend centuries warring among themselves, creating servitor-races (many of them PC races). The Archaens become veritable gods, working magic to such a degree that reality itself becomes warped... which necessitates the great apocalypse. Effectively *everything* breaks. Cities get tossed into other dimensions, fall from the sky, explode, get shot into space. Cats living with dogs. etc.
The centuries that pass immediately afterwards are covered in "The Savage Lands" RPG (which I helped write). MANY of the races of the Savage Lands era will go extinct by the time of the modern era of Talislanta.
Modern TalislantaSo modern Talislanta is like the "Renaissance" era that has risen from the ashes of the cataclysm. Many years have forged several major cultures: the descendants of the Archaens have risen into several sub-cultures, the most prominent being the Cymrillians have forged an alliance with several other kingdoms (creatively called The Nine Kingdoms). Other city states and kingdoms, even a couple of empires, have risen as well. Many of them are ruled by some of the servitor races that survived the cataclysm.
Meanwhile - the road to this modern landscape is laden with horrifying wars against the Beastmen, the warping of the chaos storms that *continue* to ravage the world - the flora and fauna itself has mutated, many of the survivors of the Cataclysm are the most dangerous shit roaming the world (see: the Bestiary). The Beastmen tribes have survived. Rifts to other dimensions have let in all kinds of horrible demonic shit. The vaults of the ancients remain all over the place to be discovered and explored.
So you can have very civilized "high-fantasy" or urban gameplay in various locales. You can also have adventure and swashbuckling or S&S adventures with tomb-robbing, jungle-ruin discovery, or the grittiest and dirtiest darkety-dark-dark adventures where you're dealing with ancient necromancers of the Phaedran age (post-Archaen) who sold their souls to the demonlords of the pit.
Talislanta has it all. The question is simply where you want to start. It's got religion, politics and lore galore. But it's also a wide open sandbox for you to carve your own name all over it.
Quote from: fbnaulin on December 11, 2024, 12:01:29 PMNow, that looks like a leviathan of books and material. I have always been curious about Talislanta, it's getting to hard to resist temptation.
Why resist? Five entire editions of it are FREEEEEEE! And they're all 99% backwards compatible.
And the system is still one of the best out there. One single table. Stat+Skill+d20.
Quote from: tenbones on December 11, 2024, 12:12:20 PMQuote from: fbnaulin on December 11, 2024, 12:01:29 PMNow, that looks like a leviathan of books and material. I have always been curious about Talislanta, it's getting to hard to resist temptation.
Why resist? Five entire editions of it are FREEEEEEE! And they're all 99% backwards compatible.
And the system is still one of the best out there. One single table. Stat+Skill+d20.
If you squint just a little, you'll see that Tweet brought that over to D&D 3.0 and it's been an integral part of how you make a D20 roll for 25 years now. People hate on WotC, but they kept Tal going with 3E and kept the Bard Games Cyclopedias on the market too.
Quote from: tenbones on December 11, 2024, 12:12:20 PMAnd the system is still one of the best out there. One single table. Stat+Skill+d20.
It's almost like the simpler the system, the better game...as long as you have a referee.
This is precisely why *we* as older gamers need to pass on our GMing knowledge in a more structural way to create more GM's that can avoid many of the pitfalls we experienced coming up. The same ones that we see over and over in various GMing threads.
One of those things that GM's need to be doing is running the games they want to run, and selling that to players and earning their trust (or finding players that simply want to play). Talislanta has managed to survive this long on the rare occurrences people have gotten the slightest chance of playing it.
The system is strong, the setting is weird but definitely thematically very familiar. We just need GM's to get out there and run it (and other games).
Looks like Everything Epic may not have been the group for Secchi to partner with. Reports are coming back of 6e books pages coming unglued already, the dice aren't actually engraved, etc. The cloth maps are boss, though.
Yeah, I have serious doubts about the binding on the books. Mine arrived in good condition but I can see them not holding up well to repeated use, which makes me glad I was able to swap the 5E book for an extra player's guide. The cloth maps are pretty nice, but I wish the world map didn't have so many errors on it.
:o Is it worth the money or should I hold off until a better printing?
:( Reminds me of DnD 5e 1st printing...