Today's update has new stretch goals, including... the rules for playing a Dragon at $270,000???

That's bullshit.

Any RIFTS conversion that does not contemplate Dragon Hatchling PCs right off the bat is incomplete.

I am withdrawing my pledge until the goal (which I strongly feel should be core content) is unlocked.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;894570The thing is with a lot of Kickstarters, the issue is that they're often delayed because of all the stretch goals.  

Personally, less 'stretch goals' better book is what I want.

This is a known factor for KS games. Theres a couple of warning and advice threads on BGG about how excessive stretch goals either killed the project after, or actually cost the designer more than they made.

Quote from: Jetstream;894907Pretty sure the retail on the books will be $20 a pop, like most Savage Worlds splats.

No telling if they get to that new bigger $300,000 stretch goal core book though.

Still cheaper than a full set of D&D books.

Quote from: The Butcher;894911Today's update has new stretch goals, including... the rules for playing a Dragon at $270,000???

That's bullshit.

Any RIFTS conversion that does not contemplate Dragon Hatchling PCs right off the bat is incomplete.

I am withdrawing my pledge until the goal (which I strongly feel should be core content) is unlocked.

Butcher, there's no "converting" anything for Savage Worlds, you "translate", remember? :rolleyes:

Yeah, I understand Shane's all about "We're doing our standard proven and comfortable format to hit the target and that's it."  But when that target leaves out tons of key elements of the setting that were in just the very first core book, you have to wonder if they're going about this the right way.

The stretch goals for this thing weren't thought out well at all, most of them are 1 or 2 pagers that should have been in the Core Book to begin with.  Coalition stuff as a Stretch, really?  It kind of boggles the mind and brings into question how really Rift-knowledgable these people are.

Quote from: CRKrueger;894928Butcher, there's no "converting" anything for Savage Worlds, you "translate", remember? :rolleyes:

I am actually down with this, which I understand as a philosophy of "stat it up from scratch instead of determining e.g. a fixed exchange rate between Rifts MDC and Savage Worlds "MDC" which is probably just Heavy Armor Toughness.

Quote from: CRKrueger;894928The stretch goals for this thing weren't thought out well at all, most of them are 1 or 2 pagers that should have been in the Core Book to begin with.  Coalition stuff as a Stretch, really?  It kind of boggles the mind and brings into question how really Rift-knowledgable these people are.

I am okay with 1 to 2 page stretch goals. What worries me is what these goals reveal that's not yet in the core rulebooks. The Dragon Hatchling RCC/Framework is one. As for the Coalition stuff I do hope they mean more Coalition stuff. And what's worse, these goals are down the line from a bunch of unremarkable D-bee races. Screw N'mbyr Gorilla Men, where's my frickin' Great Horned Dragon?

Quote from: The Butcher;894939I am actually down with this, which I understand as a philosophy of "stat it up from scratch instead of determining e.g. a fixed exchange rate between Rifts MDC and Savage Worlds "MDC" which is probably just Heavy Armor Toughness.

The problem is that starts off being a good idea, and then, like always, gets taken to StupidTown.  As I said earlier, with Absorptive vs. Ablative armor there isn't going to be a conversion for that.

However, Glitterboys having a powerful weapon, but being fairly weak against each other isn't an accurate representation.  GBs are Powerful AND Tough.  There are plenty of ways to model Powerful AND Tough in Savage Worlds, for example, the M1A3 MBT.  
Q. What does every "obviously a Robotic Vehicle" have and no "obviously a Power Armor" have?  
A. A Reinforced Pilot's Compartment.

Q. What does the Glitterboy have?
A. A Reinforced Pilot's Compartment.

It's a vehicle, give it it's own Toughness and Armor, done.

That's what should have happened, but because every Savage Idiot is so fucking arrogant with their "No Conversion" horseshit, that when you bring up that the Glitterboy is now a Glass Cannon hardly anything like the original, you get the "there's no way to convert exactly" etc. etc.

It's become a Mantra, ie. a shortcut to thinking used to stifle ideas and shut down criticism.  No new rules were needed to model the Glitterboy and have it stay true to the setting - it just wasn't done. Period.

Quote from: The Butcher;894939I am okay with 1 to 2 page stretch goals. What worries me is what these goals reveal that's not yet in the core rulebooks. The Dragon Hatchling RCC/Framework is one. As for the Coalition stuff I do hope they mean more Coalition stuff. And what's worse, these goals are down the line from a bunch of unremarkable D-bee races. Screw N'mbyr Gorilla Men, where's my frickin' Great Horned Dragon?

Not to mention Shifter, because Shifters are bad and Erin Tarn's Power Rangers don't have any. :rolleyes:

Quote from: The Butcher;894911Today's update has new stretch goals, including... the rules for playing a Dragon at $270,000???

That's bullshit.

Any RIFTS conversion that does not contemplate Dragon Hatchling PCs right off the bat is incomplete.

I am withdrawing my pledge until the goal (which I strongly feel should be core content) is unlocked.

You were willing to back it without those things because they were not listed as a stretch goal. What changed between a few days ago being willing to pre order the products and today?

Quote from: CRKrueger;894943Q. What does every "obviously a Robotic Vehicle" have and no "obviously a Power Armor" have?  
A. A Reinforced Pilot's Compartment.

Q. What does the Glitterboy have?
A. A Reinforced Pilot's Compartment.

It's a vehicle, give it it's own Toughness and Armor, done.

That's what should have happened, but because every Savage Idiot is so fucking arrogant with their "No Conversion" horseshit, that when you bring up that the Glitterboy is now a Glass Cannon hardly anything like the original, you get the "there's no way to convert exactly" etc. etc.

Yeah, that would probably have been for the best. The GB does skirt the line between power armor and robot vehicle, as do many Triax suits (such as the Ulti-Max which IMHO would be a way more appropriate stretch goal than the Jaeger).

Quote from: CRKrueger;894943Not to mention Shifter, because Shifters are bad and Erin Tarn's Power Rangers don't have any. :rolleyes:

No Shifters too??? WTF??? :mad:

Shifters are actually my favorite class.

Quote from: Ulairi;894945You were willing to back it without those things because they were not listed as a stretch goal. What changed between a few days ago being willing to pre order the products and today?

I didn't know these things were not included. They're such an iconic (heh) RIFTS thing that it hadn't even ocurred to me that someone would release a version of RIFTS without an option for Dragon Hatchling PCs.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;894925Still cheaper than a full set of D&D books.

The three 5e books can be had pre-order for around 85$ hardbound and clock in at around 1000 pages total.

Rifts core is around 250 pages for 25$. Ultimate at a little over 370 pages is 30$.

Dont see any listing for page count for the core books so far. But currently at 45-50$ Is there any news on what the page count will be for the three?

Quote from: Omega;894955The three 5e books can be had pre-order for around 85$ hardbound and clock in at around 1000 pages total.

Rifts core is around 250 pages for 25$. Ultimate at a little over 370 pages is 30$.

Dont see any listing for page count for the core books so far. But currently at 45-50$ Is there any news on what the page count will be for the three?

You've forgotten to factor in the MDC book binding that all Palladium books have:)  I've never have seen one of their bindings fail.  5e's binding....  I've had one go as soon as the book was opened (DMG).  The replacement that WoTC sent did the same thing.

Quote from: RunningLaser;894959You've forgotten to factor in the MDC book binding that all Palladium books have:)  I've never have seen one of their bindings fail.  5e's binding....  I've had one go as soon as the book was opened (DMG).  The replacement that WoTC sent did the same thing.

I guess it's called Perfect Bound for a reason?

Quote from: RunningLaser;894959You've forgotten to factor in the MDC book binding that all Palladium books have:)  I've never have seen one of their bindings fail.  5e's binding....  I've had one go as soon as the book was opened (DMG).  The replacement that WoTC sent did the same thing.

Just keep asking for replacements until they stop failing.

I don't understand how iconic Rifts elements are being ignored. WTF happened with all the "we're Rifts junkies, trust us"

Also, the stretch goals confuse me. WTF would I want a bunch of short PDF articles? That shit needs to be in the core book.

I'm getting less impressed the more I see from this KS.

In the Core Book or just...in a book, period.  They started this thing basically with the straight jacket of...

• 3 books only 96 pages each.
• Delivered by X date.

They really should have closed the Kickstarter after they got the 8,000 dollars.  All the physical swag is add-on cost, the size of the KS means nothing to the physical adds.  All the Palladium stuff is the exact same stuff you can buy from Palladium at the exact same price.  The size of the KS means nothing to Palladium content.

What are you paying for with the Stretch goals?  There's two adventures and a character folio in there, ok.  But most of them are articles focused on literally one specific thing, 1-2 pages at most.

So basically every new level of $5,000 to $10,000 increments, Sean Patrick Fannon or somebody at Pinnacle pages through a Rifts book, writes up stats for a single race or single piece of power armor, then writes up the copy in Illustrator using layout templates they already have sitting there.

$10,000 dollars to look at Northern Gun II and "translate" the stats for a 2-page article on the Gun Wolf and lay it out.  That has to be the highest paid job in the RPG industry.  Especially since these 1-2 page articles belong in other books.  Unless they enjoy leaving money on the table, there's a race book coming, so the handful of races they are Stretch Goaling should have been in there.  Northern Gun. Ditto.  Triax. Ditto (also as a side rant - Why the hell is a Triax Jager in the KS, there's no Jagers in NA, that's an NGR military machine.  Predators, Hoppers and Ultimax are what Triax sells in NA.)

Look at the Weird Wars I KS.  What are the stretch goals there?

• Archetypes - Lists of various types of NPCs representing all the basic soldier types from the different armies, and Figure Flats so you can use them at the table.
• Plot Point Campaigns.
• One-Shot adventures.

You could argue that all the archetypes should have been in the main book increasing the size by a few dozen pages or that there should have been a book with all the soldier types in it, but at least each pack is self-contained and topical.

Sixth Gun
Physical cards, archetypes, figure flats, artwork and comic from the creator of the Sixth Gun graphic novels, etc...

This KS is so...atypical that I think it has to be Kevin.  Looking deeper into things as I'm writing this, I think it's most definitely Kevin.  Palladium is going to be putting out it's own Action Deck(or Adventure Deck) for Savage Rifts, that really says it all, doesn't it?  They probably don't have the license to do Figure Flats either as that counts as miniatures and we know how Kevin is with that.

Quote from: RunningLaser;894959You've forgotten to factor in the MDC book binding that all Palladium books have:)  I've never have seen one of their bindings fail.  5e's binding....  I've had one go as soon as the book was opened (DMG).  The replacement that WoTC sent did the same thing.

Yeah. Say what you will of Palladium. But their binding was great. Lamination on the other hand... not so great.

See my commentary on the warping of the pages on all thee 5e books. They flattened out eventually but yeesh. And so far only my PHB had questionable binding. Others reported worse.

My DMG. This was the least warped.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]5[/ATTACH]