Quote from: Omega;9005751: What I dont like is the whole sullying of what were up till then overall good aligned factions. Both Tolkeen and the Knights get dragged down. Especially Tolkeen as if they were worse than the Federation. And now everyones trust in the Knights is marred and so on and so fourth. Its the execution of it that bugs me. (That and theres alot of prose fiction in the CW3 Cyber knight book.) There were though hints of trouble well before the Coalition war. As far back as Vampire Kingdoms.

OK, my Cyber-Knight point was the BIGGEST issue I have.  THIS is another issue.  Tolkien was as close to being a 'good guy' faction, and still not be squeaky clean, but to make the Coalition the morally right (Really, KS?  You want the Neo-Nazi's to be RIGHT??) that he wrote them right into Saturday Morning EVIL!

Quote from: Omega;9005752: I kinda assume they were doing what theyve allways been doing which is being spread out and dealing with things as individuals and groups. According to the books theyve been holding the line against the vampires for a long time as one example.

But if they're Counter Technology, how are they doing it?

Quote from: Omega;900575All this does though bring up the following question.

When is the SW version set? Before or after all this?

I hope it's a complete reboot.

Quote from: Omega;900575All this does though bring up the following question.

When is the SW version set? Before or after all this?

SW version takes place after Rifts Aftermath, so after the Tolkien series.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;900577But if they're Counter Technology, how are they doing it?

With squirt guns and electromagnetically fired wooden stakes, I'd wager.

Quote from: everloss;900585With squirt guns and electromagnetically fired wooden stakes, I'd wager.

Ignoring the fact the a rail gun needs iron, the amount of heat that would burn it up, unfortunately, they are better OCC to do it.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;900588Ignoring the fact the a rail gun needs iron, the amount of heat that would burn it up, unfortunately, they are better OCC to do it.

In I believe Vampire kingdoms it was stated that the wood rail guns had bit of metal in the wood for the magnetic to react off of. And rail guns dont generate alot of heat unless you have it cranked up.

Will be interesting to see how SW handles stuff like that.

Quote from: Omega;900606In I believe Vampire kingdoms it was stated that the wood rail guns had bit of metal in the wood for the magnetic to react off of. And rail guns dont generate alot of heat unless you have it cranked up.

Will be interesting to see how SW handles stuff like that.

There's a reason lead is used as a bullet for weapons that move at higher than sound speeds.  A Crossbow is more efficient, and making one that auto-loads solves most of the ammo problem.  Neither here nor there, though.  Point is, you don't need a Cyber-Knight, the class no longer has any power to work against anything Supernatural, they're only good against the Coalition.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;900651There's a reason lead is used as a bullet for weapons that move at higher than sound speeds.  A Crossbow is more efficient, and making one that auto-loads solves most of the ammo problem.  Neither here nor there, though.  Point is, you don't need a Cyber-Knight, the class no longer has any power to work against anything Supernatural, they're only good against the Coalition.

Did the Siege stuff take any abilities away from the Cyber Knights? How are they different from before, besides the anti-tech stuff?

Quote from: Ratman_tf;900656Did the Siege stuff take any abilities away from the Cyber Knights? How are they different from before, besides the anti-tech stuff?

It's more that they added the wrong thing.

The Savage Worlds version is most likely going to emphasize the "Heroic" aspects of the setting and characters, given that fits Savage Worlds play style. The fall of Tolkeen is being presented as a bad thing from the promo material, and why the "Tomorrow Legion" is formed by the good guy NPC's of the setting. Savage Worlds is taking some liberties with the setting...

One of the biggest is Mega Damage Armor not being all over the damn place either. Shane Hensely didn't like the idea of a Glitter boy pilot outside of his armor and chilling by a fire would still be completely invincible against a tribal assassin with a spear. Mega Damage Armor and Weapons are going to exist of course, but no more Mega Damage Capacity jump suits.

Quote from: Omega;9005702: Joe Martin wrote the original for some publisher I've never heard of, RPG Inc, and was more a wargame than a RPG. Wujcik wrote Revised, 2nd amd Deluxe Recon for Palladium. I assume Palladium bought Recon from Martin?[/QUOTEThank you for correcting my mistake ! my bad ! If I am not wrong, the 1st edition recon does not even use the standard Palladium rules set.

Quote from: Orphan81;900800One of the biggest is Mega Damage Armor not being all over the damn place either. Shane Hensely didn't like the idea of a Glitter boy pilot outside of his armor and chilling by a fire would still be completely invincible against a tribal assassin with a spear. Mega Damage Armor and Weapons are going to exist of course, but no more Mega Damage Capacity jump suits.

I really wish I had my old computer, but I had a bunch of notes pertaining to Rifts and various changes I made to MD.  The biggest being that I stripped it from almost everything except iconic things like the Glitter Boys Boom Gun and turned all MD armor into having SD equal to 3/4 of what a straight conversion would be.  It worked fairly well in the games I ran, and even though the Glitter Boy was fairly OP at that point, it wasn't like the ammo was falling from the skies, since the places that would make it (like Quebec) made it for military purposes.  So you had to have some good contacts or be able to craft your own.

Everybody seemed rather happy with the changes.

Regardless, the whole thing came about after a discussion over MD weapons, in which I argued that MD was stupid because a laser pistol should not be capable of destroying a city block.  It's a laser pistol, not an orbital death ray!

Quote from: Warboss Squee;900885I really wish I had my old computer, but I had a bunch of notes pertaining to Rifts and various changes I made to MD.  The biggest being that I stripped it from almost everything except iconic things like the Glitter Boys Boom Gun and turned all MD armor into having SD equal to 3/4 of what a straight conversion would be.  It worked fairly well in the games I ran, and even though the Glitter Boy was fairly OP at that point, it wasn't like the ammo was falling from the skies, since the places that would make it (like Quebec) made it for military purposes.  So you had to have some good contacts or be able to craft your own.

Everybody seemed rather happy with the changes.

Regardless, the whole thing came about after a discussion over MD weapons, in which I argued that MD was stupid because a laser pistol should not be capable of destroying a city block.  It's a laser pistol, not an orbital death ray!

Or a MD vibro dagger being able to utterly disintegrate an SDC tank in a couple of whacks.

Towards the end of my RIFTS gaming, my houserule was MD/MDC = 10 SDC. I also used a lot of damage multipliers to speed up combat.

I found a bit in, I think the Rifts GM guide, where Siembeida mentioned that his preferred player group size was like 10-12 players. Something like that. I wonder if that affected the MDC values in the game. That's a lot of characters dishing out damage every turn.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;900912Or a MD vibro dagger being able to utterly disintegrate an SDC tank in a couple of whacks.

Towards the end of my RIFTS gaming, my houserule was MD/MDC = 10 SDC. I also used a lot of damage multipliers to speed up combat.

I found a bit in, I think the Rifts GM guide, where Siembeida mentioned that his preferred player group size was like 10-12 players. Something like that. I wonder if that affected the MDC values in the game. That's a lot of characters dishing out damage every turn.

Mega Damage is like a lot of things if Rifts.  It was a good idea that got massively misused.

As to the actual point of the thread, I don't like this idea of the Tomorrow Legion, only because I think it will take away from the moral viability of the setting, but I'll wait to see how it plays out.

Quote from: yabaziou;900879Thank you for correcting my mistake ! my bad ! If I am not wrong, the 1st edition recon does not even use the standard Palladium rules set.

I believe none of the editions of Recon are compatible with Palladium? I've never seen 2nd or Deluxe. But from what I've read they did not overhaul the system?

Quote from: Warboss Squee;900922Mega Damage is like a lot of things if Rifts.  It was a good idea that got massively misused.

Because like a lot of things in Rifts, it was never sufficiently tested.

JG