Quote from: Christopher Brady;899359Who called who Neo-Nazis?  It wasn't me.  I was just saying that claiming that the Coalition (who, yes, are effectively Neo-Nazis) are A) the most 'prepared', when the very thing they are against, they had no defenses (as the time) and B) and calling them 'good guys' (Well, the nicer ones than Tolkien) when they practice xenophobic genocide and enslavement is both a little presumptuous and maybe short-sighted.

I did NOT call anyone anything.  I'm questioning the validity of the claim, nothing more.

It's come up more than once, elsewhere.  By the same kind of people that bitch about Space Marines and believe anyone that likes the Imperium of Man is a closeted goose-stepper.

Quote from: Warboss Squee;899450It's come up more than once, elsewhere.  By the same kind of people that bitch about Space Marines and believe anyone that likes the Imperium of Man is a closeted goose-stepper.

"Closeted"?

The context in which both the Coalition and the Imperium are inserted — a universe that's actively hostile to the continued existence of mankind — makes their radical position towards non-human sophonts understable, if still ethically debatable (surely there may be one or more ways to share the universe, not with all, but with at least a few other tolerable sentient species?).

Nevertheless, what grinds my gears is to meet the (fortunately rare, IME) fanboy who believes such totalitarian societies are also a valid prescription for our own, modern society, and have no qualms about voicing this belief.

Quote from: The Butcher;899459"Closeted"?

The context in which both the Coalition and the Imperium are inserted — a universe that's actively hostile to the continued existence of mankind — makes their radical position towards non-human sophonts understable, if still ethically debatable (surely there may be one or more ways to share the universe, not with all, but with at least a few other tolerable sentient species?).

Nevertheless, what grinds my gears is to meet the (fortunately rare, IME) fanboy who believes such totalitarian societies are also a valid prescription for our own, modern society, and have no qualms about voicing this belief.

Never met one. Heard a about a lot of them by virtue signalers though.

Quote from: Warboss Squee;899460Never met one. Heard a about a lot of them by virtue signalers though.

Met a few in the old, insane Palladium Mailing List and contemporaneous (mid-1990s) Palladium fan web scene.

As for 40K, only one, but my neck of the woods isn't exactly swarming with GW stores or fans.

Like I said, rare. But they are out there.

Quote from: The Butcher;899482Met a few in the old, insane Palladium Mailing List and contemporaneous (mid-1990s) Palladium fan web scene.

As for 40K, only one, but my neck of the woods isn't exactly swarming with GW stores or fans.

Like I said, rare. But they are out there.

Wouldn't surprise me. Truism: "Every community has its assholes."

Quote from: Orphan81;899424I Believe this is probably Savage World's most successful Kickstarter. I can't wait to get my hands on the material since I can't stand the Rifts system. For me, this is a dream come true, finally getting to run Rifts. Pinnacle, much like SineNomine are very very conservative when it comes to stretch goals, it's so they can deliver product on time and with everything they promised..

I kickstarted 7th Sea as well, but I hope John Wick hasn't put himself into a hole with the sheer number of products we're all getting for free thanks to the stretch goals promised.

The question there really comes down to how many PDF sales they were expecting for all those books. If they were expecting that to be a significant amount of their business, then they've lost out on... oh... 6-7000 potential sales of each of those PDFs? (edit; Okay closer to 10,000 of each, hope I'm right about the book thing)

But if they're expecting physical books to be the thing, then they were probably already planning on making those books anyway, so all the KS was for was a solid cash influx and then the rest will be funded by direct sales of all the splats.

Quote from: Jetstream;899520The question there really comes down to how many PDF sales they were expecting for all those books. If they were expecting that to be a significant amount of their business, then they've lost out on... oh... 6-7000 potential sales of each of those PDFs? (edit; Okay closer to 10,000 of each, hope I'm right about the book thing)

But if they're expecting physical books to be the thing, then they were probably already planning on making those books anyway, so all the KS was for was a solid cash influx and then the rest will be funded by direct sales of all the splats.

With the PDf sales they actually lost about nothing. Reason is that the print versions cost to make. Assuming colour. Using one of my old print shops as a comparison and assuming 270 pages total that came to about 40$ to print. I assume SW is getting far better deals than that! Lets assume they do and it costs only half that. Thats still 20$ chunked off the 85$ price tag. But still a 25$ profit over the PDF. Except probably at least half the PDF backers might not have backed if it had been just the more costly print version.

It balances out. How much depends on the print cost. Worst case scenario is they are making about 5$ a sale on the prints. Which is REALLY unlikely. They have to have better contacts than mine.

Quote from: Omega;899544With the PDf sales they actually lost about nothing. Reason is that the print versions cost to make. Assuming colour. Using one of my old print shops as a comparison and assuming 270 pages total that came to about 40$ to print. I assume SW is getting far better deals than that! Lets assume they do and it costs only half that. Thats still 20$ chunked off the 85$ price tag. But still a 25$ profit over the PDF. Except probably at least half the PDF backers might not have backed if it had been just the more costly print version.

It balances out. How much depends on the print cost. Worst case scenario is they are making about 5$ a sale on the prints. Which is REALLY unlikely. They have to have better contacts than mine.

All of that is entirely dependent, of course, on how well the print books sell. Which is why I was speculating about how much of their market is PDF vs Print.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;898448Palladium did publish an RPG set in the Vietnam war.

http://palladium-store.com/1001/product/600-The-Deluxe-Revised-RECON.html

Personally, I couldn't imagine a more depressing setting for a table top RPG, but there it is.

I seem to recall that it came out right around the time that a number of "Vietnam War" media came out (movies, TV shows, comics).

The 1st and 2nd editions of Recon were written by Erick Wujcik.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;899181This is one of the few Kickstarters I wanted to back.  Couldn't.

My biggest issue with Tolkien was not the haphazard choices and metaplot, it was what it did to the Cyber-Knight OCC.  That to me was the biggest, most heinous crime in the books.

What exactly did it to do the Cyber-Knight that you thought was so awful?

Quote from: RPGPundit;900563What exactly did it to do the Cyber-Knight that you thought was so awful?

If he's talking about the total change in focus, I think I have to agree.

Quote from: RPGPundit;900504I seem to recall that it came out right around the time that a number of "Vietnam War" media came out (movies, TV shows, comics).

Quote from: yabaziou;900516The 1st and 2nd editions of Recon were written by Erick Wujcik.

1: The original Recon came out in the very early 80s. A year before Rambo. But around the same time as Vietnam war movies were getting popular. Mostly parallel design as it were Id guess. Didnt FASA have a game out too around the same time?

2: Joe Martin wrote the original for some publisher I've never heard of, RPG Inc, and was more a wargame than a RPG. Wujcik wrote Revised, 2nd amd Deluxe Recon for Palladium. I assume Palladium bought Recon from Martin?

Quote from: RPGPundit;900563What exactly did it to do the Cyber-Knight that you thought was so awful?

Quote from: Warboss Squee;900566If he's talking about the total change in focus, I think I have to agree.

OK, bias check here:  I love 'heroic' characters, those that choose to do the 'right thing' even if it's personally painful for them, so the Cyber-Knight was a favourite concept if, badly executed in the core book.

And Warboss has it.  Mr. Siembeida needing an anti-tech faction, someone who could literally counter technology.  Now as a concept and the implementation, it was pretty cool, I rather liked it.  But because it got leashed to the Cyber-Knight (A class that did need the help) it brought up some in setting complications for me.

The Cyber-Knights have always been described as those who help those from monsters, most of which are Magical in nature and temperament.  Also, from the start point listed in the core book, the Cyber-Knights were created about 150 years before the starting date, and the Coalition (the only truly organized technologically based organization that would actively harm others) was only 50 years.  So according to the Tolkien adventure series, there was about a hundred years where the Cyber-Knights were...  Kinda useless at their goals.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;900572The Cyber-Knights have always been described as those who help those from monsters, most of which are Magical in nature and temperament.  Also, from the start point listed in the core book, the Cyber-Knights were created about 150 years before the starting date, and the Coalition (the only truly organized technologically based organization that would actively harm others) was only 50 years.  

So according to the Tolkien adventure series, there was about a hundred years where the Cyber-Knights were...  Kinda useless at their goals.

1: What I dont like is the whole sullying of what were up till then overall good aligned factions. Both Tolkeen and the Knights get dragged down. Especially Tolkeen as if they were worse than the Federation. And now everyones trust in the Knights is marred and so on and so fourth. Its the execution of it that bugs me. (That and theres alot of prose fiction in the CW3 Cyber knight book.) There were though hints of trouble well before the Coalition war. As far back as Vampire Kingdoms.

2: I kinda assume they were doing what theyve allways been doing which is being spread out and dealing with things as individuals and groups. According to the books theyve been holding the line against the vampires for a long time as one example.

All this does though bring up the following question.

When is the SW version set? Before or after all this?