Quote from: Spinachcat;897809What about the Savage Rifts KS is going to neuter Rifts? And what specific part of Rifts?

It's weird how Rifts doesn't convert.  Whenever Rifts is brought to a "better system", the flavor gets too diluted.

Savage Worlds is too balanced for Rifts.

Yes. Yes it is.

Let it sink in for a moment.

Quote from: The Butcher;897825Savage Worlds is too balanced for Rifts.

Yes. Yes it is.

Let it sink in for a moment.

Or not flexible enough?

That seems to be a kinda recurring comment when someone doesnt like SW. That SW forces the settings to flex rather than the game?

How close is that though?

Quote from: Spinachcat;897809BTW, I just got this fucked up email from Modiphius that they may start a Living Conan and Living Mutant Chronicles campaign. Now I may have to buy the damn hippie game. I'm so fucked because I've really, really, really wanted to play a Conan on-going campaign.

Now I'll try Conan 2D20 and a month later I'll probably be crying about safe spaces and triggering.

My soul. It is lost.

Yeah, it's terrible.  Who would have thought that Conan of all things would be our Achilles Heel, the place the Swine could attack where we have no defense...eh, I never planned on buying for the system once I found out how *(maybe if I don't use the word we won't have a 75-page throwdown) it was.  It's like Cortex+ games.  If that's the type of roleplaying you like, ie, more than just roleplaying, then it's a good system for what it is supposed to do.

Quote from: Spinachcat;897809What about the Savage Rifts KS is going to neuter Rifts? And what specific part of Rifts?

It's weird how Rifts doesn't convert.  Whenever Rifts is brought to a "better system", the flavor gets too diluted.

Quote from: The Butcher;897825Savage Worlds is too balanced for Rifts.

Yes. Yes it is.

Let it sink in for a moment.

Pretty much this.  Savage Worlds is too balanced, too small scale, too untweakable for Godzilla, let alone a radioactive Cthulhu.  Even as a Supers game Savage Worlds is low-powered.  Sometimes in Rifts, a squad of Abolisher robots throw down against Thor, or a fleet of Triax submarines might fight against a 3,000 mile long tentacle from the Alien Intelligence that lurks at the bottom of the Marianas Trench.  Erin Tarn and her Squeaky Clean Brigade are gonna rid North America of a Boris and Natasha pulp Indiana Jones version of the Coalition, and then what?  Go to Africa and fight the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse?  Pinnacle's own setting Deadlands/Hell on Earth/Lost Colony HAS the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse...they don't stat them.  Or the Tomorrow People go to what, Atlantis and face Splynncryth, who has what d12+372 Strength?  Don't worry guys, we'll just keep him Shaken.

In 40k at least, things will start to fall apart somewhere after the Baneblade vs. Bloodthirster showdown.  That's the good thing about 40k, if you get to Titan combat, you can always go to...40k and just have SW stand in for the skirmish level stuff.

Quote from: Spinachcat;897809BTW, I just got this fucked up email from Modiphius that they may start a Living Conan and Living Mutant Chronicles campaign. Now I may have to buy the damn hippie game. I'm so fucked because I've really, really, really wanted to play a Conan on-going campaign.

Now I'll try Conan 2D20 and a month later I'll probably be crying about safe spaces and triggering.

My soul. It is lost.

Yeah, it's terrible.  Who would have thought that Conan of all things would be our Achilles Heel, the place the Swine could attack where we have no defense...eh, I never planned on buying for the system once I found out how *(maybe if I don't use the word we won't have a 75-page throwdown) it was.  It's like Cortex+ games.  If that's the type of roleplaying you like, ie, more than just roleplaying, then it's a good system for what it is supposed to do.

Quote from: Spinachcat;897809What about the Savage Rifts KS is going to neuter Rifts? And what specific part of Rifts?

It's weird how Rifts doesn't convert.  Whenever Rifts is brought to a "better system", the flavor gets too diluted.

Quote from: The Butcher;897825Savage Worlds is too balanced for Rifts.
Yes. Yes it is.
Let it sink in for a moment.

Pretty much this.

Quote from: Omega;897850Or not flexible enough?
That seems to be a kinda recurring comment when someone doesnt like SW. That SW forces the settings to flex rather than the game?
How close is that though?

This too.

Savage Worlds is too balanced, too small scale, too untweakable for Godzilla, let alone a radioactive Cthulhu.  Even as a Supers game Savage Worlds is low-powered.  Sometimes in Rifts, a squad of Abolisher robots throw down against Thor, or a fleet of Triax submarines might fight against a 3,000 mile long tentacle from the Alien Intelligence that lurks at the bottom of the Marianas Trench.  Erin Tarn and her Squeaky Clean Brigade are gonna rid North America of a Boris and Natasha pulp Indiana Jones version of the Coalition, and then what?  Go to Africa and fight the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse?  Pinnacle's own setting Deadlands/Hell on Earth/Lost Colony HAS the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse...they don't stat them.  Or the Tomorrow People go to what, Atlantis and face Splynncryth, who has what d12+372 Strength?  Don't worry guys, we'll just keep him Shaken.

In 40k at least, things will start to fall apart somewhere after the Baneblade vs. Bloodthirster showdown.  That's the good thing about 40k, if you get to Titan combat, you can always go to...40k and just have SW stand in for the skirmish level stuff.

Quote from: Spinachcat;897444But for you, it sounds like a better bet is just taking a hammer to the PB system. There are plenty of house rules for Rifts floating around the web, and its not that hard to do your own streamlining and cleaning. RPGPundit even has a Palladium houserules sticky on his forum.

On the plus side, this topic has got me to dust off my Rifts clone and do some more work on it.

I still want in, oh well.  Hopefully non-backers will get some of this stuff some day.

Oh, and the Squeaky Clean Brigade (Tomorrow Legion) is not my cup of tea, either.

Though the Coalition, as a whole, at my table, have always been bad guys (even if individuals may be good).

I backed the Modiphius kickstarter, but I did so to get all the PDFs for setting material, maps, etc., not for the actual system itself as I don't want to teach my players another system. I figured I could just convert it into an ACKS or SW campaign. But hearing the 2d20 system compared to Cortex+ makes me worried. Am I going to want to claw my eyes out just trying to read the material?

Quote from: The Butcher;897907Oh, and the Squeaky Clean Brigade (Tomorrow Legion) is not my cup of tea, either.

Though the Coalition, as a whole, at my table, have always been bad guys (even if individuals may be good).

One of the reasons I prefer Chaos Earth to Rifts is the Coalition makes more sense to me. Like Carcosa, Rifts magic is powered by sacrifice. Yeah, most people just use their own PPE, but have you looked at how much joy juice you get from human sacrifice?

There is no reason that an evil mage wouldn't be grinding babies in Rifts.  In the face of aliens, monsters and blood magic, standing tall with the Skull Club makes more sense for humanity than Tolkeen's Kumbaya. And MDC beings co-existing with SDC squishies? That's accidental deaths just begging to happen.

I get why SW would do the Tomorrow Legion. Most SW settings are "good vs. evil" and even their "gray" setting with Rippers is "good guys doing squicky stuff to fight evil" whereas Rifts can be much grayer and less explicitly clear (especially as Kevin has expanded his vision of the Coalition).

As I've said on PB's forums, the only reason the Coalition is the default bad guys is because players want PCs with Kewl Powerz and the "No Powerz" Coalition was set up as the easy enemy, then Kevin doubled down with a slathering of Naughty Nazi sauce.

But hey, who doesn't want to mind blast and turbo laser a bunch of skull faced space Nazis?

Quote from: Spinachcat;897970One of the reasons I prefer Chaos Earth to Rifts is the Coalition makes more sense to me. Like Carcosa, Rifts magic is powered by sacrifice. Yeah, most people just use their own PPE, but have you looked at how much joy juice you get from human sacrifice?

There is no reason that an evil mage wouldn't be grinding babies in Rifts.  In the face of aliens, monsters and blood magic, standing tall with the Skull Club makes more sense for humanity than Tolkeen's Kumbaya. And MDC beings co-existing with SDC squishies? That's accidental deaths just begging to happen.

Yeah, evil wizards would probably be a dime a dozen in Rifts Earth. No wonder they struck off and founded their own friggin' country.

And Chaos Earth is probably 101 flavors of awesome. I should look into it some day.

Quote from: Spinachcat;897970I get why SW would do the Tomorrow Legion. Most SW settings are "good vs. evil" and even their "gray" setting with Rippers is "good guys doing squicky stuff to fight evil" whereas Rifts can be much grayer and less explicitly clear (especially as Kevin has expanded his vision of the Coalition).

Deadlands? Day After Ragnarok?

Quote from: Spinachcat;897970As I've said on PB's forums, the only reason the Coalition is the default bad guys is because players want PCs with Kewl Powerz and the "No Powerz" Coalition was set up as the easy enemy, then Kevin doubled down with a slathering of Naughty Nazi sauce.

What, the skull helmets too subtle for you?

"No Powrz" CS lasted what, five years into the franchise's life? Pretty soon the CS got a Psi-Battalion, and more recently a super-secret, off-the-books force of magicians (the Vanguard).

Quote from: Spinachcat;897970But hey, who doesn't want to mind blast and turbo laser a bunch of skull faced space Nazis?

The sort of people who play enthusiastic, faithful agents of the Inquisition in Dark Heresy? :eek:

I sure do, though. Also, CS deserters make great "penitent hero" PCs.

Quote from: CRKrueger;897855Sometimes in Rifts, a squad of Abolisher robots throw down against Thor, or a fleet of Triax submarines might fight against a 3,000 mile long tentacle from the Alien Intelligence that lurks at the bottom of the Marianas Trench.  Erin Tarn and her Squeaky Clean Brigade are gonna rid North America of a Boris and Natasha pulp Indiana Jones version of the Coalition, and then what?  Go to Africa and fight the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse?  Pinnacle's own setting Deadlands/Hell on Earth/Lost Colony HAS the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse...they don't stat them.  Or the Tomorrow People go to what, Atlantis and face Splynncryth, who has what d12+372 Strength?  Don't worry guys, we'll just keep him Shaken.

I actually laughed out loud at the last sentence.

To be honest, though, PCs are unlikely to make it anywhere near Splynncryth. The Four Horsemen are a real problem, though.

Krugs, old chum, I'm pledged for $45 but I just know how this is going to turn out. I'll stat up a bunch of PCs, thrilled at the convenience of ol' SW and the new toys. Then we'll play. Then I'll be disappointed at the system for breaking down at some big ol' fight and also pumped with the old Rifts books I dug out of storage. Then I'll be running a [strike]straight[/strike] moderately houseruled Palladium Rifts game, and buying new Palladium stuff and partying like it's 1996.

Can't say it's a bad outcome either way.

TBH though, players are unlikely to make it anywhere near Lord Splynncryth alive. Nevertheless, the Four Horsemen are a real problem.

Quote from: The Butcher;897825Savage Worlds is too balanced for Rifts.

Yes. Yes it is.

Let it sink in for a moment.

Well, duh.  Pathfinder is too balanced for Rifts.  EXALTED may be too balanced for Rifts.  The whole point of Rifts is that it's not balanced.

JG

Quote from: James Gillen;897978Well, duh.  Pathfinder is too balanced for Rifts.  EXALTED may be too balanced for Rifts.  The whole point of Rifts is that it's not balanced.

I know, but some of the Gaming Den regulars often come to browse. I thought I'd spell it out for their benefit.

Quote from: The Butcher;897975Deadlands? Day After Ragnarok?

I haven't gotten around to reading Day After Ragnarok, but Deadlands is quite solidly a "good vs evil" setting. You're trying to stop the end of the world, after all. Sure, you can do other stuff in it, but the central premise of the whole thing is fighting all the evil stuff that the Four Horseman and their servitors are causing to pop up (and hopefully lowering the Fear Level in as many locations as possible). Most of the adventures involve supernatural evil as some sort of antagonist, and all of the plot point campaigns are stories about stopping the servitors.

Heh, we've come back now to the Rabid Savage Fan thing.

Quote from: Sean Patrick FannonYes, this gives a decidedly heroic spin on the whole thing. Instead of mercenaries, wanderers, or bandits, members of the Tomorrow Legion are  funded  and  given  a  purpose,  which  is generally to put themselves in the direct line of fire against the endless dangers of Rifts Earth. This is very much in line with what most other Savage Worlds settings do, and we felt maintaining that consistency not only supported the overall experience of Savage fans but added something new and useful to the Rifts® setting.

We heard it from the author: the setting has to change for the Savage Fans.  It's a Twilight Zone episode where the 30's Pulps are a Viral Meme infecting and altering all reality.  Hey, that doesn't sound half bad, Savage Worlds is an SCP affecting all literary settings.

Now we have a Rifts and The Strange crossover in this new Savage Rifts dimension and somehow Delta Green will have to be involved...and yes, that would count as gonzo. :cool: