Quote from: Omega;897336Been wondering this too. Was not impressed with SW Star Frontiers at all.

As for Rifts. Its actually a remarkably rules light system. Combat and Skill and not much else. Roll a d20 to hit and roll a percentile to succeed a skill. 95% of Rifts is setting, OCCs/RCCs, equipment and spells/powers.

Oh yeah. Once you drill down, the Rifts Palladium system is fairly simple, but it's got a ton of wonky bits. Easily the system that I had to make the most houserules for.

Quote from: Brand55;897372If I had to guess, I'd say he's talking about The Last Parsec as it's the closest sci-fi setting SW has to Star Frontiers. The Kickstarter shipped out books about a year ago.

Fan made Star Frontiers book for Savage Worlds. Least pretty sure it is. Unfinished so thats part of the un-impressed part.

Quote from: Omega;897405Fan made Star Frontiers book for Savage Worlds. Least pretty sure it is. Unfinished so thats part of the un-impressed part.

I don't think I'd compare 99% of the fan-made supplements available online (in general, not SW specific) to a professionally released product from an established company.

The underlying system isn't going to change.  Also as mentioned elsewhere, "Savages" think their system is perfect and every setting needs to be completely rewritten and classified in SW terms where necessary to make things fit.  You want to tack on a setting rule or two to tweak a couple things, that's one thing, but suggest even minor rules hacks and you no longer are "FFF".  They're like fucking Stepford Fans.

Anyone on the fence about Savage Worlds can get a pretty good feel for the system by checking out the free Test Drive rules available at Pinnacle's website here: https://www.peginc.com/freebies/SWcore/TD06.pdf

The game isn't super crunchy but does offer quite a bit of character customization options through Edges. A lot will depend on the exact setting you use, too, as some modify the core SW rules more than others. Realms of Cthulhu, for example, offers multiple sanity and damage rules to let you play a traditional pulpy, SW-style game or more of a CoC adventure where characters die or go crazy with relative ease.

Quote from: CRKrueger;897418The underlying system isn't going to change.  Also as mentioned elsewhere, "Savages" think their system is perfect and every setting needs to be completely rewritten and classified in SW terms where necessary to make things fit.  You want to tack on a setting rule or two to tweak a couple things, that's one thing, but suggest even minor rules hacks and you no longer are "FFF".  They're like fucking Stepford Fans.

Yeah, but the post clarifying even mentioned that the publication was unfinished, which was part of the unimpressed part.  So my commentary is more to do with basing apples on oranges instead of pears on pears.

My best friend doesn't care for the SW rules either, so I can understand that.  It is part of what makes it not-so-painful to have to drop the kickstarter (don't know if we'd ever get it to the table with his dislike of the rules).  So no issue with not caring for the rules.

Quote from: CRKrueger;897418The underlying system isn't going to change.  Also as mentioned elsewhere, "Savages" think their system is perfect and every setting needs to be completely rewritten and classified in SW terms where necessary to make things fit.  You want to tack on a setting rule or two to tweak a couple things, that's one thing, but suggest even minor rules hacks and you no longer are "FFF".  They're like fucking Stepford Fans.

Oh, of course they fucking are.  *roll eyes*  Because, you know, fans of every fucking game have some people who are rabid degenerates who can't stand it when people disagree with them on their game.  Happily, none of them populate this board.

I rather like Savage Worlds, but not for fucking everything and if you need to change a fucking rule here or there, feel free!  It's your fucking game, do what you like.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;897302So how the fuck is Savage Worlds as a system? As a Rifts fan, I'm interested, but the system sounds too rules lite for me.

I'd probably be happy with a Rifts that's just using a streamlined and cleaned up Palladium system. So that might give you an idea of how crunchy I like my rules.

I like Savage Worlds for large scale combat games using minis.

But for you, it sounds like a better bet is just taking a hammer to the PB system. There are plenty of house rules for Rifts floating around the web, and its not that hard to do your own streamlining and cleaning. RPGPundit even has a Palladium houserules sticky on his forum.

For me, I prefer rules light so I took Palladium's Mechanoids system (the precursor to Rifts), fixed that to my taste, and then pull over what I want from Rifts.

Quote from: Gwarh;897368I did a quick search on rates from New York New York to my home city of Edmonton Canada and came up with the below rates. Basically 1/2 the cost in USD (inface a smidge less than half) of what the Rifts Kickstarter is charging for shipping to Canada.

Send them the links you found. Maybe they can get a better deal for Canadian fans.

Of course, the KS may be charging SHIPPING and HANDLING. aka, they are using a 3rd party shipping company which packs the shit and mails it to you and eats the costs of stuff that goes missing via insurance.  

I get International Mail costs if you can't drive there, but damn, if we can mail shit cheap from NY to LA, then we gotta be able to do the same with Canuckistan.

BTW, if Canadians go to GenCon and buy a shitload of books, do they get fucked by customs at the border when they get home?

Quote from: Gwarh;897369There was a Savage Worlds Kickstarter?!??!!?

Star Frontiers - Players Book
http://savageheroes.com/conversions/sfplayers.pdf

Star Frontiers - Referee book
http://savageheroes.com/conversions/SFreferee.pdf

Here's a link to lots more:
http://savagepedia.wikispaces.com/Savage+Conversions

I can't comment to completeness or quality, but I did download a few for eventual reading.

Quote from: jcfiala;897434Because, you know, fans of every fucking game have some people who are rabid degenerates who can't stand it when people disagree with them on their game.  Happily, none of them populate this board.

We are blessed.

BTW, the Palladium Books forums are actually a good place to talk Rifts house rules. Lots of GMs who share their hacks to the PB system.

http://palladium-megaverse.com/forums/index.php

Quote from: jcfiala;897434Oh, of course they fucking are.  *roll eyes*  Because, you know, fans of every fucking game have some people who are rabid degenerates who can't stand it when people disagree with them on their game.  Happily, none of them populate this board.

I rather like Savage Worlds, but not for fucking everything and if you need to change a fucking rule here or there, feel free!  It's your fucking game, do what you like.

Been reading the KS comments and a lot of posts on the Pinnacle Forums lately, so as a result, I've just about had it with the frickin' Savages and their bullshit.

I honestly don't think this thing is gonna do Rifts without neutering just about everything.  I do think it will be perfect to use for 40k though.

I ended up canceling my pledge last night. My wife had foot surgery and then was back in the ER because of infection so the money is tight and the more and more I think about it, I'd rather drop the $250 on Palladium products.

Quote from: CRKrueger;897418The underlying system isn't going to change.  Also as mentioned elsewhere, "Savages" think their system is perfect and every setting needs to be completely rewritten and classified in SW terms where necessary to make things fit.  You want to tack on a setting rule or two to tweak a couple things, that's one thing, but suggest even minor rules hacks and you no longer are "FFF".  They're like fucking Stepford Fans.

Amen CRKrueger

I like the Savage Worlds game engine, but for 1 small'ish thing. I want stats to have an impact on skill rolls, and in the rules a written they don't.

I've gone to the official forums a few times over the last decade posting for tips or ideas on how to house rule stats impacting skill rolls. You'd think I was speaking herasy by the responses I got. All I ever get are replies that it's not needed, why would you want to do that, stats do effect skills by how much the cost to raise, don't do it as it will break the delicate and perfect math behind the game/rolls. Give me a break!

I just gave up asking on the official forums and scoured the net for fan house rules on fan pages. It's annoying as it keeps me from fully embracing the game as it is a really good light game engine aside from my one personal sticking point.

Quote from: Gwarh;897528I've gone to the official forums a few times over the last decade posting for tips or ideas on how to house rule stats impacting skill rolls. You'd think I was speaking herasy by the responses I got. All I ever get are replies that it's not needed, why would you want to do that, stats do effect skills by how much the cost to raise, don't do it as it will break the delicate and perfect math behind the game/rolls. Give me a break!

I'd be interested in seeing these houserules of yours. You may wanna put them in another thread or PM them to me! Sounds interesting to me!

Quote from: Gwarh;897528Amen CRKrueger

I like the Savage Worlds game engine, but for 1 small'ish thing. I want stats to have an impact on skill rolls, and in the rules a written they don't.

I've gone to the official forums a few times over the last decade posting for tips or ideas on how to house rule stats impacting skill rolls. You'd think I was speaking herasy by the responses I got. All I ever get are replies that it's not needed, why would you want to do that, stats do effect skills by how much the cost to raise, don't do it as it will break the delicate and perfect math behind the game/rolls. Give me a break!

I just gave up asking on the official forums and scoured the net for fan house rules on fan pages. It's annoying as it keeps me from fully embracing the game as it is a really good light game engine aside from my one personal sticking point.

That's a bit weird since I've seen somewhat involved discussions among SW fans regarding things like alternate damage systems. Trust me, there are plenty of fans out there who are open to trying new things with the system, at least as many as there are who don't want to deviate much (if at all) from the core rules. It sucks that you ran into a wall when trying to get ideas for your own stuff.

I don't know if you ever found a solution that works for you, but probably the simplest solution would be to just add a bonus or penalty to the roll based on whether the attribute is higher or lower than the given skill. Personally, though, I'd probably go for more of a Cortex approach. Drop the Wild Die entirely and use attribute + skill for all Trait rolls. Adjust the calculations for things like Parry and Toughness accordingly; for example, Parry would = [(Fighting + Agility)/2] - 1.

Wild Cards can basically be used as-is. Extras require a little work. You can just give any Extras you create the stats you want to roll based on what you see their attributes and skill levels to be. For published Extras, average their attribute and skill ratings. Every die of difference adds a +1 bonus to the lower die, and every two dice of difference bumps it up one die type. So, for example, the crocodile (Agility d4, Fighting d8) from Savage Worlds Deluxe would roll a d6 to hit its foes, the dragon (Agility d8, Fighting d10) would use d8 + 1 to bite, and the giant spider (Strength d10, Climbing d12+2) would actually roll d12+1 when moving around its web.

This also has the benefit of allowing you to separate attributes and skills (which I am very much in favor of, personally). A character could make a Smarts + Climbing roll to determine the best way to get up the cliff behind the evil baron's castle, then make the actual Strength + Climbing roll to get up to the top.

Quote from: CRKrueger;897462Been reading the KS comments and a lot of posts on the Pinnacle Forums lately, so as a result, I've just about had it with the frickin' Savages and their bullshit.

WTF happened?

Is SW just not story game enough for you like Conan 2D20? (Just kidding!!! Put the Cimmerian sword down!)

BTW, I just got this fucked up email from Modiphius that they may start a Living Conan and Living Mutant Chronicles campaign. Now I may have to buy the damn hippie game. I'm so fucked because I've really, really, really wanted to play a Conan on-going campaign.

Now I'll try Conan 2D20 and a month later I'll probably be crying about safe spaces and triggering.

My soul. It is lost.

Quote from: CRKrueger;897462I honestly don't think this thing is gonna do Rifts without neutering just about everything.  I do think it will be perfect to use for 40k though.

What about the Savage Rifts KS is going to neuter Rifts? And what specific part of Rifts?

It's weird how Rifts doesn't convert.  Whenever Rifts is brought to a "better system", the flavor gets too diluted.

Quote from: Ulairi;897506I'd rather drop the $250 on Palladium products.

Unless you have a FLGS you want to support, I suggest two options for the biggest bang for your Palladium buck:

1) Buy lots off eBay. I've often found people selling 10+ books in one auction. I've bought several, then sold the overlap back on eBay as my own lot. If you don't mind used books, this is a fast way to amass a large collection. Then read them, toss the ones you don't like back on eBay.

Yes, I know buying used books makes you the enemy of all that is good in the world. But hey, what can people expect from us racist sexist terrorists?

2) If you want new books and you want to support Palladium, then wait for the Christmas Grab Bag sale. The deals are good, and you have your books signed too. Does that matter? Players seem to like it when I show them off. My goober cred is strong!