Rifts: ?

Pierce Inverarity · June 11, 2007, 02:35:35 AM

I'm staring at Rifts Ultimate Edition.

So... the chance to hit with a firearm is always 8+?

Unmodified by a) your own level, b) the armor worn by your opponent, c) your DEX (aka PP) or indeed any other ability?

15th level, 1st level, PP 22, PP 3, it's all the same?

Really?

On a related note, it would appear that the number of your attacks per melee round--including your firearm attacks--is improved by taking the Boxing skill.

So boxers shoot faster than nonboxers.

Most peculiar.

Pierce Inverarity · June 11, 2007, 02:41:56 AM

Just to be clear, when I say "firearm" and "armor" I mean your typical Rifts MD weapons and MDC armor.

J Arcane · June 11, 2007, 02:56:55 AM

As I remember it, the base value to hit in Palladioum was 4+, the roll being modified by attack bonuses coming from stats, skills, and other bonuses, and this attack roll being opposed by a Dodge roll which is itself modified by various bonuses.

It's basically a "dice + adds" opposed roll, but with rolling under a 4 on the die for the attacker being an auto miss.

There's no set target numbers in Rifts generally, except for the rare times they use an AR for a given suit of armor. MDC armors don't have AR, they jsut always get hit. SDC armors have an AR that is a target nuber that must be exceeded to hit the character's SDC instead of the armor's SDC.

RPGPundit · June 11, 2007, 03:05:49 AM

As far as I recall, your chance to hit is modified by your weapon proficiency, and equipment (ie. scopes and other such stuff).

RPGpundit

Pierce Inverarity · June 11, 2007, 12:51:11 PM

J Arcane, you're talking about hand-to-hand combat, which does have rules for "strike" mods. (And according to which my first-level Vagabond doesn't need to roll to hit anymore, what with his PP 22.)

Pundy, I was going to tell you to RTFM, but then I went and RTFM myself, and yes. You're right. There are level-based to hit mods for MD guns... KS just forgot to mention them in the WP section of the skills.

BUT... all other things (like scopes and such) being equal, a +1 to hit every 2 levels means the difference between your average third-level CS grunt and your seventh-level PC on the other is not THAT big, no?

I mean, we're not playing GURPS WWII here...

jgants · June 11, 2007, 07:15:14 PM

Quote from: Pierce InverarityI'm staring at Rifts Ultimate Edition.

So... the chance to hit with a firearm is always 8+?

Unmodified by a) your own level, b) the armor worn by your opponent, c) your DEX (aka PP) or indeed any other ability?

15th level, 1st level, PP 22, PP 3, it's all the same?

Really?

d20 roll + equipment adds + aiming bonus (if any) + WP bonuses + any other misc bonuses must be 8 or higher.

MDC armor is purely a substitute HP for the wearer. PP only adds to hand strikes.

Quote from: Pierce InverarityOn a related note, it would appear that the number of your attacks per melee round--including your firearm attacks--is improved by taking the Boxing skill.

So boxers shoot faster than nonboxers.

Most peculiar.

That's a correct interpretation of the rules.

jgants · June 11, 2007, 07:22:06 PM

Quote from: Pierce InverarityJ Arcane, you're talking about hand-to-hand combat, which does have rules for "strike" mods. (And according to which my first-level Vagabond doesn't need to roll to hit anymore, what with his PP 22.)

Somewhere in the books, at one time, was a rule that explicitly stated a natural one was always a miss, regardless of the modified roll. But I can't say for certain its buried in the RUE or not.

Quote from: Pierce InverarityPundy, I was going to tell you to RTFM, but then I went and RTFM myself, and yes. You're right. There are level-based to hit mods for MD guns... KS just forgot to mention them in the WP section of the skills.

BUT... all other things (like scopes and such) being equal, a +1 to hit every 2 levels means the difference between your average third-level CS grunt and your seventh-level PC on the other is not THAT big, no?

I mean, we're not playing GURPS WWII here...

You'll find that in Palladium games, PCs start off pretty competant and end up really competant (as opposed to the more familiar loser to demigod path).

Character level isn't nearly as big of a deal in Palladium games as it is in other level and class-based games.

J Arcane · June 11, 2007, 07:23:15 PM

Quote from: jgantsSomewhere in the books, at one time, was a rule that explicitly stated a natural one was always a miss, regardless of the modified roll. But I can't say for certain its buried in the RUE or not.

You'll find that in Palladium games, PCs start off pretty competant and end up really competant (as opposed to the more familiar loser to demigod path).

Character level isn't nearly as big of a deal in Palladium games as it is in other level and class-based games.

I played Rifts for years, and we never played anything but level 1 characters.

beeber · June 11, 2007, 07:30:46 PM

we never played it too often in my group. but we had the best times with it when it was over the top blow shit up fun, nothing all that deep required.

i picked up enough books for it. i should run it again. . . . :raise:

Tyberious Funk · June 11, 2007, 07:42:58 PM

Quote from: Pierce InverarityOn a related note, it would appear that the number of your attacks per melee round--including your firearm attacks--is improved by taking the Boxing skill.

So boxers shoot faster than nonboxers.

Most peculiar.

Are you trolling?

This is a well known idiocy of the system (or feature, depending on which way you look at it).

beeber · June 11, 2007, 08:29:46 PM

anything to add attacks!

Pierce Inverarity · June 11, 2007, 09:17:18 PM

Quote from: Tyberious FunkAre you trolling?

This is a well known idiocy of the system (or feature, depending on which way you look at it).

Pardon? I never troll. I'm just getting to know the system. The idiocy I can see, not sure about the "feature" part.

Tyberious Funk · June 11, 2007, 09:24:25 PM

Quote from: Pierce InverarityPardon? I never troll.

Sorry, I didn't seriously think you were trolling. But Palladium is a constant source of mallice on forums and many of it's more idiotic rules are fairly common knowledge. Someone innocently posting queries on these quirks could be misconceived as indirectly attacking the system.

Not that it doesn't deserve it mind you

QuoteI'm just getting to know the system. The idiocy I can see, not sure about the "feature" part.

It's a feature if your name happens to be Kevin Siembieda :rolleyes:

J Arcane · June 11, 2007, 09:28:54 PM

Man I played the system for years, and we still hadn't apparently realyl understood the rules, because this whole 8+ thing and the completely different set of modifiers and stuff that people are describing for ranged combat is totally alien to me.

Either they changed more than I had been let on in RUE, or we'd all just subconsciously houseruled the fuck out of the system and been running it our own wierdass way ever since.

Pierce Inverarity · June 11, 2007, 09:33:28 PM

Oh, you don't know where I'm coming from... I love Rifts. But making your first cahracter is HARD.

I also, somehow, love KS.

Guess whose blog I've been checking regularly for the past three weeks? "Murmurs from the Megaverse"?

Last Saturday he almost got crushed by a neon light in the warehouse.

This was after he had hurt his butt in a mishap involving a rolling chair.

According to Maryann his favorite desert is poppyseed (?)cake.

It's better than TV. I can't get enough of it.