Any Rifts players here? If so, what are your campaign models like?
For instance, I've found two models to work fairly well:
1) The Build a Civilization model
Most typically, this model begins with characters being dumped into the world of Rifts, but they have some kind of stronghold to defend. It can either be characters rifted into an area with a large pre-cataclysm cache of stuff, or it can be something like an REF cruiser crashing in a area with little population.
Adventures are organized around surviving, scouting, and maintaining the settlement. Common throwaway adventures are supernatural creature raids.
2) The World Tour model
This is one that I haven't personally ever done, but it does come up quite a bit in Rifts discussions I've had and generates a lot of player enthusiasm. The idea is simply to start in a location and start visiting all the various Rifts World Books.
For a long time, I've kicked around an idea (inspired by the movie The Final Countdown) about a NGR carrier which finds itself on an inadvertent trip around the world after visiting Free Quebeck and CS installations in the Gulf of Mexico. From there they encounter hints of the Vampire Kingdoms, the nations of South America, Horune Pirates, The New Navy, The Lord of the Deep, the pre-Rifts cities of Japan, and eventually conclude by returning home and confronting the Phoenix Empire.
The only campaign I played in RIFTS was a "world tour". It was a lot of fun too. We ignored most of the rules and just had fun going through Africa and South America. RIFTS is one of my favorite game settings, and I wish KS would allow it to be ported over to other game systems. I think a True20 RIFTS would be simply awesome.
You forgot the "blow shit up" model. ;)
only Rifts campaign I took part in was a mercenary campaign where the group worked as elite commando and special agents for Tolkeen, after the start of hostilities with the CS... it ranged from military objective scenarios (hold this position while we muster reinforcements, destroy the ennemy's entrenched missile launch facilities...) to adventures in search of artifacts useful for the war (like we found the Moebius, but had to give it to Zurvan for safekeeping... good thing Thoth is always tagging along with us, or some other artifacts we went to vamp haunted Mexico to fetch)
Quote from: KnightskyYou forgot the "blow shit up" model. ;)
The "blow shit up" model is certainly a valid and easy to use one for Rifts, and just about any version of Rifts will have some elements of that model. :) Speaking for myself, that particular model never really worked for campaign play in my games. It was great for one shots, though.
On the other hand, it worked rather well for me in Robotech. Sometimes we could have a great game just by doing space battles with waves of Invid scouts to kill. Of course, our characters in that game were better defined.
Quote from: Svartalfonly Rifts campaign I took part in was a mercenary campaign where the group worked as elite commando and special agents for Tolkeen, after the start of hostilities with the CS... it ranged from military objective scenarios (hold this position while we muster reinforcements, destroy the ennemy's entrenched missile launch facilities...) to adventures in search of artifacts useful for the war (like we found the Moebius, but had to give it to Zurvan for safekeeping... good thing Thoth is always tagging along with us, or some other artifacts we went to vamp haunted Mexico to fetch)
That's an almost unique thing to me. I started Rifts back when it launched in 1990, and never really met anyone who did anything with Tolkeen. Was this campaign before or after the SoT books came out?
Were all the PCs basically straight military tech types, or was there the typical Rifts rif-raff mix of tech, D-bee, and supernatural?
And here's a little something I wanted to throw into the ring that really didn't fit into a reply:
One problem I always had when trying to run Rifts was the sourcebook factor. I'm told it exists for every other game, but Rifts is the only one I ever noticed it in.
To put it simply, the "sourcebook problem" is this: A new sourcebook comes out. The players see the cool new character types in the new book and get enthusiastic about it. So, they suicide their existing characters (or otherwise endeavor to end the current campaign) so they can make new ones from the latest book.
AFAIK (I came in after it started, and moved on before it was done) it started after the SoT books came out, taking place withing the framework of the official war... what we did during the Wizards' revenge was not pretty.
and we were not military types, though many mempbers were outstanding combatants... we had an oni ninja from the 3 galaxies, a psi warrior, a gunfighter or gunslinger from the new west... and I was the most tech oriented type, being a psi tech (then again, as a demigod, I doubled as the resident line walker) ...
The sourcebook factor is also referred to as power creep, as in the power level creeps up and makes older books semi-worthless.
It exists in many (most?) games. For example, D&D, 2E. Characters with good kits were better than standard characters. Then the Skill & Powers rubbish came out and allowed much stronger characters.
I think what happens is that designers want to add cooler and cooler stuff to addons to attract buyers.
Quote from: GabrielOne problem I always had when trying to run Rifts was the sourcebook factor. I'm told it exists for every other game, but Rifts is the only one I ever noticed it in.
To put it simply, the "sourcebook problem" is this: A new sourcebook comes out. The players see the cool new character types in the new book and get enthusiastic about it. So, they suicide their existing characters (or otherwise endeavor to end the current campaign) so they can make new ones from the latest book.
Never noticed that... true, when the Unearthed Arcana came out for Ad&D1, a lot of new characters were created from it, and old characters were quick to use the new options and spells... but I never saw anybody in a regular campaign ditch an old and advanced character (in any game) so as to make a new one from the new stuff... When I was young, the customs in my city's gaming groups did not allow it (some extreme cases saw characters join high level groups at 1st level, and survive... and there was a definite bias against charactes joining the general pool if they had been created above beginner level)... of course, with Rifts, each new book gave me ideas for interesting characters, but by the time I found a group, most of those were oldish... and I've given up palladium games until I find a group I really feel good with.
Actually, Nicephorus, the trouble mentioned by Gabriel is not power creep per se (the general evolution towards a high power game, even at relatively low level, from adding ever more powerful character classes, spells and abilities, equipment... and opponent) but a consequence from it in which players would ditch old and experienced characters to chreate, from scratch, new, high level from creation, characters, using the latest power creeped options ...
I've never witnessed it first hand and properly ... though I've seen my share of players who tried to play "toilet risen" characters in general games (but I never knew for sure) ... but I can attest to power creep in Rifts products (peaking in the Carella books which, interestingly, still managed to be among the best published) ... and I'm rather faithful to my fantasies about human looking Ogre maxi men from Atlantis, demigods, and characters from the three galaxy universe.
Quote from: GabrielTo put it simply, the "sourcebook problem" is this: A new sourcebook comes out. The players see the cool new character types in the new book and get enthusiastic about it. So, they suicide their existing characters (or otherwise endeavor to end the current campaign) so they can make new ones from the latest book.
I am told that the reason D&D's prestige classes only come into play at later level is precisely to avoid, or at least mitigate, this problem.
Last time I played Rifts I was in high school.
DM let my play a great horned dragon :heh:
I liked the concept of Rifts.
The Games I have ran have been interlocking ones (within the same campaign universe, but with different character groups that sometimes interact) along the "Build a universe" model. In fact, the campaign started when there was only the first 3 books to work with, and was effectively a sequel to the 4 year long, covering the period 2016-Reflex Point, Robotech game I had just completed. One of the influences on the game idea was "Tunnel in the Sky" By Robert Heinlein (with a bit of the Lazarus Long universe's ideas woven into it).
It was 2052 in a post-Invid Robotech universe, and the children (and some grandchildren) of NPCs and PCs from my campaign were about to set out on a first contact mission to one of the few worlds of the Former Robotech Empire that survived the was between the Invid and surviving Zentraedi, post-Dolza.
What they got, however, was an encounter with a dimensional anomaly that dumped 12 4-person teams and the group's AI into Rifts Earth in December of P.A. 98. Two other teams escaped the anomaly, and a fifteenth team attempted to Fold out of the anomaly, and ended up in an alternate Robotech universe in 2014.
While a good deal of the story centered on the finding of a place to set up shop, and exploring this strange altered Earth, there were also a lot of personal stories going on within the teams - relationships starting and ending (or broken apart from the accident putting the persons in different dimensions), children being born, the search for communication back home, and accepting their place in the new world. Some of the Rifts PCs in the group were ones the group recruited as front people for their operations, or rescued from dire straits. A nice, comfortable mixture that could be as grunt-dirty or as sappy as the players wanted at the time of the game session, as each player controlled the 4 PCs from one of the 12 teams, as well as a smattering of "locals". By the time the campaign went on hiatus (we still advance things through discussion more than game play when 3 or more of us get together), there were some world tour elements, one group having visited South America and Tritonia (the former, through an Atlantean character being from Manoa). another to Europe.
Eventually, after about 7 years in-game time, events conspired to cause a crossover event with the team lost in the alternate Robotech universe, the team there (NPCs) having assembled a Dirty Dozen/Black Sheep type squadron that instigated major change - before discovering that the universe they were in had changed from thier world's history millenia before their arrival, and led to encounters with a group of semi-demonic-controlled Tyrolean spin-offs, bent on conquering the lost homeworld - and whom were trading in the Splynn Dimensional Market on Rifts Earth. The campaign was poised to become multi-dimensional at that point, but we lost several players, one of whom moved to Perth, Australia (but, frankly, he'd gotten so out of character with his characters, it would have been difficult to reconcile his actions).
My most recent attempt to write up these adventures and their settings in game stat form is located at Morlock Productions (http://home.kih.net/~basara/game-files/gameindex.html)
Quote from: Basara_549The Games I have ran...
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The "Robotech Guys Crashing in Rifts" is almost a genre unto itself. :)
I love stories like yours. I hear them all the time, but they reek of so much fun. Sometimes it makes me wonder if a greater number of people didn't approach Rifts like my group did, and you seem to have.
In other words, we looked at Rifts as an expansion for Robotech. Come to think of it, the more Rifts has drifted into the realm of metaplot and further from the "bits you can drop into Robtech" the more I've had a problem with it and the less I've enjoyed it.
The longest term Rifts games I've run were actually extended (years worth of adventures) side trips of Robotech characters.
I have to admit I've enjoyed RIFTS, as silly as the rules are. I had a mutant weasel (from TMNT) with Ninjas & Superspies martial arts and a mecha that had fifteen attacks a round.
Also, after playing d20 a while, the complete lack of game balance doesn't bug me so much any more. :heh: My problem is that each new supplement has ALL NEW SUPER LEET CHARACTERS that blow the old ones out of the water and that character generation is so very front-loaded. Yeah, there are levels, and you gain minor benefits with them, but most of your power is there out of the gate.
Guess that Rifts was a huge munchkin trip for me. But I was like 15 years old :heh:
Still, we had fun.
I played RIFTs for many years. Initially it was "from robotech" but later on it was all new characters fighting the Coalition from within. The power creep started with Atlantis and has continued every since. It's not just new, cool, and elite, it's more powerful machines and a gradually scaling up of damage, armor, dodge bonuses, etc.
Some books are far worse than others of course, but the principle remains the same, and one of the biggest hesitations I've had to doing a world explorer model.
I love the concept of RIFTs, but that and the system have kept me from playing for a couple of years now. I'll still buy a book or two though to catch up on plot fiction.
One of the things that helped curb (most) of the power creep for me is that I actually let my players start with characters that (in several cases) had phenomenal power levels, but rather strict personal codes of conduct due to how they were raised (and a heavy dose of humility), and the fact that they could feel each others' deaths, making it unlikely that they would unnecessarily risk the lives of their comrades.
98% of the psychics, (all but one of the originals, even the ones who had a genetic heritage of becoming more powerful psionically by puberty than a 15th level mind melter) had little or no directly offensive powers until AFTER they arrived on Rifts Earth, and didn'r realize that they had potential for such additional powers for several levels worth of gaming. This, in a campaign where their O.C.C.s had such an XP penalty from the depth of training and the existence of their powers (I don't cut skills for being a psychic, I add percentages of XP penalties) that their XP progressing made the Dragon and vampire R.C.C.s look like the AD&D 1E thief progression by comparison.
There's still little, if anything, even now in Rifts that comes close to their power level in terms of equipment, or in about a half-dozen of the assorted characters (only two of which actually operate in the field) - but they recognized from day one that they were strangers in a violent world, and would gain little from throwing themselves at problems too big for a goup of 50, or even 5000.
They saw their opportunities, and their actions in the world became more modeled on a scalpel than a claymore. Actions were done based on minimized threat with maximized potential. While eventually becoming reasonably self-sufficient, they also realized that they were out of reach of immediate help (their home universe's dimensional travel was based on space folding, and space folding in the Solar system in Rifts is about as dangerous as playing Russian roulette with 5 bullets - just ask the Archons), and are actually dependent on a couple of dimensional-exploration-oriented shifters (as opposed to the "let's see what I can summon" types) for rare communications back to their original home.
They played diplomats, scientists, and teachers (not to mention pirate broadcasters); merchants and mediators. All the while, doing so with characters originally trained as information specialists, scientists, and the combat pilots meant to deliver and protect the others, for a first contact mission (which in many ways, Rifts became). In time, many of the combat types became more like the others, while the others became more cloak & dagger. They knew that knowledge was power, and that a lot of power focused on the right small spot could be much more effective than expending much more power, diffusely, over a larger area.
My players handled the concept pretty well, but the one who moved to Oz was going a little overboard with it (Was on a WoD angst kick at the time) in terms of character relationships by the time he moved down there to marry the girl he met (we comment, only half-joking if that, that considering that her parents and their extended families were Sicilian immigrants to Australia, and that most of that family are still in one area, many with occupations that would raise an eyebrow here in the states, that he married into the Perth mafia - I mean, two of the jobs that the relatives of his schoolteacher wife got for him, at the same time, was security guard, and bouncer at a bar frequented by visiting sailors and port workers). :ponder:
It also helped that everyone in the group were experienced role-players (6-8 years before starting the campaign or joining it in progress), and that much of that time included campaigns of Twilight 2000 (where they focused there attempts for "survival" into "nation building" in Eastern Europe, supporting the leaders they felt deserved it, followed by going home and doing the same for their home section of the States, while waiting for the smoke to clear in the arguments between halves of the fractured US government - and putting the beat-down on New America) and a home-brew D&D world that was trying to rebuild from the near-fall of civilization (only a refuge of about the size of Connecticut survived, with societal elements from the major races) from a war with humanoids a thousand years earlier that had been followed by a planet-wide catastrophe that took out the victorious hordes at the brink of total victory.
So, Rifts' setting as a concept wasn't entirely new to them (they'd already done fantasy, modern era and SF world-rebuilding - Rifts just combined elements of all of them). IT was a new challenge, and one they dove into with gusto.
BTW, in the LGSA stuff I posted, these are the O.C.C.s of the characters used in the story material.
Steven Freeman: Communications Engineer (effectively a Mind Melter with about a century of dimension-hopping that he's used means to not age from, before he entered his technical training). one of my personal NPCs.
Musica Freeman: Scientist (speicalizing in life sciences) High powered psychic, becomes effectively a godling R.C.C. in addition to O.C.C. several years into game.
Kayla O'Connor: Dedicated Martial Artist (Ninja). One of their early recruits; switched to Elite Power Armor Pilot O.C.C. for her infiltration into Chi-town.
Janice Lynn Belmont: Born Lynn-Janice, was raised a child by parents as Worldly Martial Artist (Shao-Lin Kung Fu) with musical training from mother. LGSA training is as Communications Engineer. 2nd of 3 daughters.
Karen Lynn Freeman: Born Lynn-Karen, younger sister of Janice. One of Steve's wives. Early life as her sister, but training was in Leopard Style Kung Fu instead of Shao Lin. Also a Communications Engineer. Mother of 2 children by Hermes from aftermath of characters getting caught up in the Hera/Freya plotline from Pantheons of the Megaverse. Also, was part of a group that attempted to break into Azlum, when they were trying to be a little too grandiose in their schemes, ended up being exposed to the weird light column there.
Notice the trends in their LGSA training?
Basara, you sound like a damn kick-ass DM. That would have been a cool game to be in on. To hell with the rules sucking -- that would have just been fun. Thanks for the good read. :)