I saw a thread over at story-games talking about this book, which I've never seen here Down Under. They basically dismiss it as "out of date" (that old "our hobby is progressing and totally different to that primitive D&D stuff"), complain that it doesn't support "Bang-driven play" and otherwise speak of it in ways that make it sound good to me

Anybody got it and read it recently? Tell us about it!

Look here: http://hofrat.blogspot.com/2006/06/john-henry.html#links

for an excerpt.

In my opinion, it´s pretty sound reasoning, the whole book and totally not outdated.

In my opinion, it is firmly mediocre. Certainly not something the people on StoryGames tend to like*, but I don't think it is even useful for most traditional gamers. It is basic advice, spending too much on the obvious; more interesting as a historical artifact than actual guidelines. Completely unlike the 1e DMG, which manages to be instructive, fun, and chock full of colourful tidbits after all those years.

* But then those forums also produce threads where posters lionise freaking Lorraine Williams. :eek:

I remember flipping through a copy once and not being impressed; a lot of it seemed to be an exercise in stating the obvious. Melan's right that the 1E DMG is a better source, as is Gary's Q&A threads on Dragonsfoot.

The 1E DMG is one of the best pieces of RPG writing ever. 2E was sooo boring in comparison, even though I liked the system changes.

-clash

Our downtown Library had at least two copies of it a couple of years ago. I checked it out as a curiosity.

 There is still good advice in there - but its mostly for someone who is new at being a Gammaster , or only been at it  for a year or two.


- Ed C.

I'm not particularly fond of that book or the sequel.  I agree that the 1st edition DMG is superior.

A better intro to DMing can be found in the Mentzer edition basic set. The AD&D 1st ed DMs manual is, as has been stated, also an excellent read for any GM.

What the hell is "Bang-driven play".

Quote from: RockViperWhat the hell is "Bang-driven play".

Haven't you heard of FATAL? :O

-clash

I checked it out from my local library and never finished it. It was overly wordy, as Gygax likes to be, but it didn't make up for it with entertainment value and usefulness. After a couple chapters I started fast forwarding through it looking for good bits, and finding precious few.

It also has some fairly "swinish" parts, discussing the "right" way to play and bemoaning those poor folks who play it wrong. The book is also set out to teach you how to be one of the elite "Masters of the Game" so you can be better than those poor schlubs who are playing without ever having read Gary's scintillating advice.

Overall, if you're a Gary fan like myself I'd say to check it out for nostalgia's sake. If you're incredibly new to GMing (i.e. haven't read your favorite games' GM Advice sections) I'd say it might prove useful, but there are better options available these days: Amber DRPG's GM Advice Section, Johnn Four's Roleplaying Weekly, and Robin's Laws spring to mind.

Quote from: RockViperWhat the hell is "Bang-driven play".

Not nearly as fun as it sounds.

Quote from: RockViperWhat the hell is "Bang-driven play".

According to the Forge document that Google pointed me to, bang drive play is where "the GM has prepared a series of instigating events but has not anticipated a specific outcome or confrontation." In other words, its a label applied to a style of gaming that's been around for decades, and is easier to say but harder for a neophyte to understand.

I didn't read the article, and only followed that link and one link to jhkim;s blog where some people talk about it in the comments section, so if I've missed something I'm sure someone will come along and tell me shortly.

Quote from: James McMurrayI checked it out from my local library and never finished it. It was overly wordy, as Gygax likes to be, but it didn't make up for it with entertainment value and usefulness. After a couple chapters I started fast forwarding through it looking for good bits, and finding precious few.

It also has some fairly "swinish" parts, discussing the "right" way to play and bemoaning those poor folks who play it wrong. The book is also set out to teach you how to be one of the elite "Masters of the Game" so you can be better than those poor schlubs who are playing without ever having read Gary's scintillating advice.

Overall, if you're a Gary fan like myself I'd say to check it out for nostalgia's sake. If you're incredibly new to GMing (i.e. haven't read your favorite games' GM Advice sections) I'd say it might prove useful, but there are better options available these days: Amber DRPG's GM Advice Section, Johnn Four's Roleplaying Weekly, and Robin's Laws spring to mind.

This is my take on it as well.  Really not terribly helpful, and not terribly entertaining, with Gygax's usual "here's how you MUST do things if you want to be an ELITE player!".  Borrow it, don't buy it.

Quote from: James McMurrayAccording to the Forge document that Google pointed me to, bang drive play is where "the GM has prepared a series of instigating events but has not anticipated a specific outcome or confrontation." In other words, its a label applied to a style of gaming that's been around for decades, and is easier to say but harder for a neophyte to understand.

No, that's it, James. But to be fair 'bang-driven play' could be viewed as quite the rediscovery against the background of late-80's to '90's white wolf/AD&D2 style GM advice, where it's the player's job to follow along with the GMs preordained plotline, etc.

Explicitly stating that a bang doesn't have to be a good fight, but also can be confronting a hero with a moral dilemma of some kind, is also something useful to point out to people who don't know it already.