Quote from: talysman;691209Well, I'm not really talking about people evangelizing for one or two games they really like. I'm talking about the people on RPGNet (mostly) who think you should buy/play the hottest 3 to 8 games released every year, plus a list of 10 to 20 mainstays of the hobby. Or, back when I actually still frequented The Forge, the people there who considered you gaming illiterate if you hadn't played everything from a list of 30 to 40 games, plus something like 10-15 board games and 10-15 card games. All these people that I have actually encountered online made it quite clear they weren't promoting one specific game, but were promoting a snobby attitude about gaming as a devotion or educational program. In some cases, they didn't even care which games you played, but the quantity of games you played.

The one common feature of such awful individuals of this type (in both geek/nerd and non-geek/non-nerd niches), is their snobbishness.  A general personal sense of superiority (whether real or perceived), in their own minds and amongst other like-minded individuals of similar persuasion.

Quote from: ggroy;691232The one common feature of such awful individuals of this type (in both geek/nerd and non-geek/non-nerd niches), is their snobbishness.  A general personal sense of superiority (whether real or perceived), in their own minds and amongst other like-minded individuals of similar persuasion.

New systems - that is, new-to-me-systems; I don't care when they were released - are very important to my enjoyment of the hobby. My interest is primarily in exploring the expanding the boundaries of RPGs, and finding out the breadth of what can be done with the hobby. Exploring all RPGs have to offer is contradictory to limiting it to comfortable systems - I always have to explore new ones, looking for surprises.

What ruins this whole practice is the culture of snobbery you describe. It influences prospective players to keep their bets safe, become insular, and that's really what shrinks the hobby - false associations visited upon wary gamers by self-important Internet assholes.

//Panjumanju

Quote from: soltakss;690758I have found a games system that I really like, that is flexible enough for me to use in almost any genre, that can be houseruled very easily, that has a wealth of material available both as supplements and online, and which is going to be supported for quite a while yet.

I feel much the same about the same system (Chaosium's BRP framework). On the other hand, I also enjoy different flavors. TSR-era D&D is the crowd pleaser in my regular gaming group, and one of my friends would prefer that we use that basis for everything.

It's certainly feasible; I've used it for all sorts of things in the past. However, I also enjoy sessions in which we're using GDW's house system (as in Twilight 2000, Dark Future, etc.). Variety can be a pleasure in itself.

Quote from: thedungeondelver;691137I really don't have the time to dedicate to learning a new RP system from a player's perspective (and I don't like sitting there with the GM saying, "Just roll the dice, I'll tell you whether or not it's a success" - I need to understand what's going on)

I and most of my bunch are pretty comfortable with the latter. At least one is somewhat resistant to learning formalisms -- amazing how little of BTB AD&D he's picked up despite playing for decades -- and seems to prefer "just playing his character."

Quote from: deadDMwalking;691199Not taking no for an answer is bad.  But if you don't ask people to play with you, you're not going to grow the hobby.  In the long run, I appreciate people making the attempt to 'evangelize', even if I'm not receptive to their particular plea.

(shrugs)  I've brought dozens of people in to the hobby.  (Heck, two separate GMs I brought in still used my 1970s homebrew system, many years after *I'd* abandoned it.)  I ran the gaming track at a World Science Fiction Convention, I've done convention runs, been a panelist, written products, the whole nine yards.  I figure I've done my duty to the hobby ... presuming I had a "duty" to the hobby.

Which I didn't.  And neither does anyone else.

No one has an innate duty to any hobby.  This is our entertainment, not a chore.

Beyond that, there's a standard false dichotomy in these arguments: that "growing the hobby" requires buying into whatever oddball system or milieu the speaker wants to try out.  Nonsense: if our motivation was truly behind "growing the hobby," we'd stick with the tried and true.  D&D is the only RPG with general name recognition in the wider world, and it's the overwhelming industry leader.  Fringe games that'd consider 5% of the market an outstanding surge in sales will never get any broad traction, and those taught to prefer such games will always have a harder time finding groups than D&D players do.

So let's uncouple these from the argument, shall we?

Well I will play almost anything providing the people I'm playing with are fun to play with. If anything I often prefer to play new games.

I'll buy almost anything that catches my interest regardless of system because I like to see what neat ideas other people have come up with. Money and time is the main issue here. I do have quite a backlog of things I've only skimmed.

But it's been a long time since I've run anything which isn't BRP/RQ/CoC. The overhead of running a game is much higher. If the right opportunity came up there are systems I would like to run (e.g. Savage Worlds, FATE, Icons) to see how they feel but I tend to find that if I see a setting I'm interested in (e.g. Airship Pirates) I find myself thinking it would be more fun to convert it to some flavour of BRP and run that instead.

Quote from: Ravenswing;691429(shrugs)  I've brought dozens of people in to the hobby.  ... I figure I've done my duty to the hobby ... presuming I had a "duty" to the hobby.

Which I didn't.  And neither does anyone else.

I get that.  And I'm pretty squarely in the 'I don't like trying new games for the sake of trying new games' camp.  I like chocolate ice cream, and I don't care if I might like something else, too.  Some people like the 'tried and true' and don't feel the need to experiment.

But, on the other hand, I don't get mad because someone suggests I might like pistachio ice cream more.  They might be right - but the only time I'm going to try it is if they have it at their home and chocolate isn't an option.  If we go to the ice cream parlor, I'm going to spend my money on chocolate and say 'well, maybe I'll try it next time'.  But I never will.  Not unless they run out of chocolate, first.  Assuming I don't just turn around and leave.  

There's nothing wrong with suggesting to someone you've met that they might enjoy a hobby you enjoy.  Full stop.

If you're in this thread complaining about people making suggestions, you're wrong.  I'm not saying that ANYONE is actually saying that.  Mostly I hear people complaining about 'hard sell' type of stuff.  And I agree that's annoying.  But let's draw the line - coming on too strong is objectionable - not suggesting to someone that they try something new.  

I'm not particularly receptive to new things, but I don't get annoyed when people make such suggestions.  Despite my general reluctance, in some rare cases I'll actually take a suggestion.  I'm going to try a game of Warhammer 40k Deathwatch or some such for just that kind of reason.

Quote from: deadDMwalking;691448Mostly I hear people complaining about 'hard sell' type of stuff.  And I agree that's annoying.  But let's draw the line - coming on too strong is objectionable - not suggesting to someone that they try something new.

Definitely.

I've walked away from gaming groups which had hardcore "hard sell" types as the DM.  In such groups, the DM was so "hard sell" that their relentless hard selling continued on even after finding enough players.  Essentially they would be telling the players how to create their characters, and telling the players what to do at almost every step during the game.  It was as if the game was a one-man "puppet" show.

Outside of rpg games, the most annoying "in your face" "hard sell" types I came across, were typically people involved with "multi level marketing" (MLM) type stuff (such as Amway).  For such "in  your face" MLM types, they were quickly demoted to "persona non grata" and not invited back to anything anymore.

I've never understood this. My players don't go out of their way to try new stuff for novelty; but they've never had any problems with learning a new system just because its new.

Obviously, if they decide that a system isn't good after learning the basics of it they won't want to continue, but there's never been any fear of novelty in my groups.

I wonder if its because we play VERY long-term campaigns as a rule, and so my players are fairly secure that we're not just going to go around changing (and re-learning) systems on a whim; and they trust that I'm going to think through what I will run very carefully.

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