Well, I'm going to post a series of proposals.  It might be better to go to the game design forum but I'll start here.

Characters
Characters are composed of Attributes, Traits, and Skills.  Attributes are on a scale where the human average is 10 and maximum is 18 to retain compatability with the vast majority of rpgs on the market.  Each attribute has associated Traits that can modify it in specific instances.

Attributes (Sub Traits)
Physical Activity - Coordination (Agility, Dexterity)
Physical Capacity - Strength (Size, Musculature)
Physical Resilliance - Endurance (Health, Fitness)
Mental Activity - Intelligence (Memory, Reasoning)
Mental Capacity - Attitude? (Discipline, Drive)
Mental Resilliance - Willpower (Stability, Resolve)

Spiritual, psychic, and magical abilities should be Traits because they don't exist in all settings and may or may not be appropriate to various magic systems etc.

Skills are divided into broad categories, specific skills, and specialties like maneuvers.  Allowing category purchases allows for a character class type effect within the broader structure.  These could be treated as a trait.

Skill defaults are at 1/2, 1/3, and 1/4 of the skill by difficulty.  But otherwise skills build on the attributes directly.  This helps to reduce the impact of high attributes on defaults.

Skill Categories?
Knowledge
Fighting
Shooting
Science
Medicine
Social Science
Technical
Practical
Athletic
Artistic

Success Rolls 3d6 + Attribute + Skill vs Target Number
Critical Success at Target Number +10
Automatic Success on 3
Automatic Failure on 18  actually, personally I'd leave them off entirely.  Sometimes the odds are just too great.

Combat
10 second turns with potential for phased movement in seconds.
3d6 Damage Base at Strength 10 gives room for lower Strength Scores

Armor as Hit Points with limited damage resistance based on material verses material.  Damage resistance by itself is an easily broken mechanic and isn't particularly realistic as armor degrades substantially when penetrated.  Hit point mechanisms are very robust and help to avoid frusterating hopeless situations.

Quote from: David Johansen;650965Armor as Hit Points with limited damage resistance based on material verses material.  Damage resistance by itself is an easily broken mechanic and isn't particularly realistic as armor degrades substantially when penetrated.  Hit point mechanisms are very robust and help to avoid frusterating hopeless situations.

I don't mind hit points in such a system to represent bodily health/damage but inflated hit points to help represent expertise is out of place in a system featuring active defenses.

To simulate "higher level"  heroic fighters I would rather increase defensive capability by better skill, more actual defense attemps per turn, or both instead of piling on more hit points.

This means that tactical decisions such as all-out attacking still have consequences. Not getting to defend isn't much of a tactic if you are sitting there with a boatload of hit points.

I agree, hit point inflation is a bad idea.

What I'm talking about is armor having hit points.  Let's say you have a ten point suit of leather armor and a guy hits you with a steel sword for ten points of damage.  So much for your leather armor it's cut to bits.  Actually I'd probably say you have a protection value that can be absorbed from a single hit.

Speaking of damage, I'm thinking all damage rolls should be 3d6.  3d6 + Strength -10 to be precise.  For scaling I'd like to use effect multipliers.  Size would be an effect multiplier for Strength.  with an overlap in the 1-5 and 16 - 20 range to avoid edge cases.  That is to say that a 18 strength could give 3d6 +8 or (3d6 - 7) x 2.  Hmmm...need to work on the numbers a bit but that kind of thing.  The multipliers might need to be on a 20 point range not a 10 point one.

I've given skill and attribute costs some thought as well.  I'm thinking the base cost per point of a skill should be 2 points, this would get you the skill at your attribute level and every additional two points would buy a +1.  Howver to reflect difficulty and availability skills can be designated as Fundamental or Expert costing one or four points.  I'd probably say for each skill you bump up to fundamental should require another skill to be bumped down to expert.

So we'd have:

Attributes 10 points per level
Traits 5 points per level

Fundamental 1 point default = attribute
Trained 2 points default = 1/2 attribute
Expert 4 points default = 1/4 attribute

Specialization / Maneuvers 1 point

I kinda like coordination as the base target number to hit.  It gets rid of a roll and I always feel it's a bit odd to have hit someone and then have that hit taken away.  On the other hand, coordination or skill as a target number on a bell curve becomes problematic as highly skilled foes become disproportionately hard to hit.

Quote from: Brad;650667Personally, I hate GURPS 4th edition. 3rd is/was one of my favorite games specifically because the core rules included just enough info to run gritty fantasy, scifi or pulp games. You added additional setting books to get more options for whatever sort of game you wanted to play, like Magic or Autoduel. 4th reversed that model by essentially including EVERYTHING into the core rules, which is overwhelming to say the least. It's a lot easier to add stuff as needed than remove it (in my opinion). The skill list is ridiculously bloated, for instance. Also the layout...ughh. And I know it's a "universal" game, but changing the sample characters from generic fantasy to world-hopping ubermensch was dumb.

The real gripe I have with 4th is essentially that all the flavor was ripped out and what was once a good rpg became a toolkit for making an rpg. I already own HERO, I don't need another version that is even more complex.

Yeah, I sat down and compared 3rd edition to 4th edition; I was surprised by how much more user friendly 3rd edition was.  It did a certain genre of gritty fantasy or historical game (pre-history to space empire) really well.  it was always bad at high powered games and I think the changes in the current edition have only made it less friendly on the gritty scale to not fully succeed on the heroic scale.

Quote from: David Johansen;651043I agree, hit point inflation is a bad idea.

What I'm talking about is armor having hit points.  Let's say you have a ten point suit of leather armor and a guy hits you with a steel sword for ten points of damage.  So much for your leather armor it's cut to bits.  Actually I'd probably say you have a protection value that can be absorbed from a single hit.

Armor damage. Gotcha. I like for armors to have a set number of penetrations they can withstand before needing repair. For example, you could beat up someone in chainmail all day with a quarterstaff without causing undue harm to the armor.( The guy wearing it could even be killed). Use a spear against it and it will quickly start being damaged.

Thats hard to model with HP alone.

Quote from: Brad;650667The real gripe I have with 4th is essentially that all the flavor was ripped out and what was once a good rpg became a toolkit for making an rpg. I already own HERO, I don't need another version that is even more complex.

I wanted to revisit this point because I think it is kind of an important question about whether we want to go for a specific flavor. That issue is pretty basic if we are trying to replace GURPS.

Quote from: David Johansen;650949Okay, interesting.  I do want Strength to be simple but I want the progression to be exponential or logarithmic.

I'm glad we agree on that point.

Quote from: David Johansen;650949Combat should be simulationist but fast.  I think stepping away from one second rounds would probably be good as it's an obstacle many people complain about.  Perhaps there should be a seconds per action rule to represent various initiative levels and super speed.

I always liked the one round second thing as it seemed that many other games kept things a bit too slow in terms of how long it took normal people to get actions off. But I also like the HERO phased combat, even though I'm not sure I like the idea that it takes an average person 6 seconds to get off each separate action (for 2 actions in each 12 second period).

Quote from: David Johansen;650949In terms of format and open use I'd propose that the core should be free and usable in personal projects without liscence.  

Agreed.

Quote from: David Johansen;650963Characters are composed of Attributes, Traits, and Skills.  Attributes are on a scale where the human average is 10 and maximum is 18 to retain compatability with the vast majority of rpgs on the market.  

Agreed, I like using 10 as a base, I'm fairly used to it. I tend to feel that games like Shadowrun (average stat of 3) restrict the range of numbers a bit too much.

Quote from: David Johansen;650963Attributes (Sub Traits)
Physical Activity - Coordination (Agility, Dexterity)
Physical Capacity - Strength (Size, Musculature)

My comment here is that I've always thought there should be a connection between a character's quickness/agility and his muscular ability to propel his own body. That is the reason is why I kind of like the idea of being able to talk about how strong a character is in relation to his size (proportional strength), which in combination with good coordination, brings agility.

Quote from: David Johansen;650963Spiritual, psychic, and magical abilities should be Traits because they don't exist in all settings and may or may not be appropriate to various magic systems etc.

Agreed.

Quote from: David Johansen;650965Success Rolls 3d6 + Attribute + Skill vs Target Number
Critical Success at Target Number +10
Automatic Success on 3
Automatic Failure on 18  actually, personally I'd leave them off entirely.  Sometimes the odds are just too great.

Are we talking about roll-under or roll-over here?
In roll under normally it is  3d6 roll under value set by Skill/Attribute (with modifiers). With the 3d6 + Attribute + Skill vs Target Number, it sounds like we are rolling high (which is fine by me, BTW). It's just that then you mention auto success on a 3, if we are rolling for high, shouldn't that be an auto fail instead?  

Quote from: David Johansen;65096510 second turns with potential for phased movement in seconds.

Any special reason for going with 10 seconds as a base? I ask because 12 seconds divides evenly into more numbers, which gives better results when dividing up the turn into various numbers of phases.

Quote from: David Johansen;6509653d6 Damage Base at Strength 10 gives room for lower Strength Scores

As long as we make sure damage is dealt out in accord with the exponential progression of the game, that sounds good.

Quote from: David Johansen;650965Armor as Hit Points with limited damage resistance based on material verses material.  Damage resistance by itself is an easily broken mechanic and isn't particularly realistic as armor degrades substantially when penetrated.  Hit point mechanisms are very robust and help to avoid frusterating hopeless situations.

I'd be interested in hearing more about your ideas on armor as hit points, and how best to work that on an exponential/logarithmic scale.

Doh, yeah I was going roll high so 18 is an auto success and a 3 is an auto fail.

The big problem with hit points and an exponential scale is that it can make machineguns better anti-tank weapons than rockets.

The solution is to make the bullets to hits ratio scale exponentially too.  This can be an issue with big targets being taken down by small hordes too but again scaling multiple attacks to hits seems to be the best solution.

I generally like three stats per skill but one reason I went with coordination instead of Agility is that it makes Agility a separate thing.  A giant can still be a good shot, as can a guy in a wheel chair.  The other obvious missing stat is perception.  How many rpgs take your eyesight into account when figuring ranged attack skills?  GURPS does it for bad eyesight but somehow, good eyesight doesn't help a bit.

Personally I'm thinking Sight, Hearing, Touch, and Smell should simply be traits.  And yes, Sight improves attack rolls.

Okay, Armor, What I'm using in Incandescent and In The Shadow of Dragons is armor with an absorbtion limit that becomes DR against softer or lower tech materials.  So if you take a ten point hit and have armor with absorbtion of 5 you take five hits and the armor takes five hits.  Chainmail and other flexible armors are a bit different but how much of that beating did the chainmail absorb?  Without padding, none of it.  What it does is reduce the blow to a blunt damage type.  If you get hard enough to damage the chainmail you can bet you're screwed.

Working with multi-d6 curves doesn't leave a lot of wiggle room. If you want each point of a stat on a similar range to count toward a skill default, then high-stat figures have incredible defaults if average have anything at all!

If 10=3 then 18=11; if 10=5, then 18=13; if 10=8, then 18=16; etc.

To give more room for training to tell, perhaps try:

Centered on 10: 1/3 (rounded down) -- 9-11=+3

For weight lifting, doubling per 5 points seems convenient to me (if Olympic champions can get an effective score of 21). That's just off the cuff; I don't have statistics for the spread in various populations.

For running, you might want a different scale.

One potentially interesting way to represent sharply different difficulty levels is by rolling rating or less on increasing numbers of dice (as in The Fantasy Trip). As high scores near the middle of the hump, low ones slip down the tail.

Quote from: David Johansen;651218The big problem with hit points and an exponential scale is that it can make machineguns better anti-tank weapons than rockets.

The solution is to make the bullets to hits ratio scale exponentially too.  This can be an issue with big targets being taken down by small hordes too but again scaling multiple attacks to hits seems to be the best solution.

That is basically what I'm looking for. Something where multiple smaller hits do not add together in a linear fashion.

Quote from: David Johansen;651218I generally like three stats per skill but one reason I went with coordination instead of Agility is that it makes Agility a separate thing.  A giant can still be a good shot, as can a guy in a wheel chair.  

I definitely agree that somebody who is not super-agile should still be able to be a good shot. I was thinking that stuff like Acrobatics would be based on Agility, whereas stuff like shooting would be based on coordination, and what I was considering is something like this:

Size:
Strength: (defaults based on +2/3 Size, but can then be modified up or down)
Proportional Strength: (Based on Strength - Size)
Coordination:
Agility: (based on average of Coordination and Proportional Strength)

Using 3 specific examples of warriors, lets look at Brak the Huge Barbarian, Tina the petite Warrior Princess, and Ralph, who is overweight, and not all that agile, but is still a crack shot. . . .

Brak (Huge Barbarian)
Size : 16 (assuming a +5 per doubling scale, this is more than double the size of an ordinary person)
Default Strength : 14 (each 3 points of extra Size give him +2 Str)
Strength: 18 (we assume that he bought 4 points of strength)
Proportional Strength : 12 (10 + Strength - Size)
Coordination : 12
Agility : 12 (average of Proportional Strength and Coordination)


Tina (Warrior Princess)
Size : 7 (much smaller than the average character)
Default Strength : 8 (3 points of decreased Size give her -2 Str)
Strength: 12 (we assume that she bought 4 points of strength)
Proportional Strength : 15 (10 + Strength - Size)
Coordination : 13
Agility : 14 (average of Proportional Strength and Coordination)


Ralph (who is out of shape, but still a crack shot)
Size : 13
Default Strength : 12 (each 3 points of extra Size give him +2 Str)
Strength: 9 (we assume that he sold off 3 points of strength)
Proportional Strength : 6 (10 + Strength - Size)
Coordination : 14
Agility : 10 (average of Proportional Strength and Coordination)

Quote from: David Johansen;651218The other obvious missing stat is perception.  How many rpgs take your eyesight into account when figuring ranged attack skills?  GURPS does it for bad eyesight but somehow, good eyesight doesn't help a bit.

When we talk about Coordination or Dexterity, I always tend to assume that there is a perception ingredient in that stat.

In the same way that Hand-Eye-Coordination involves an "Eye" part, I assume that Coordination involves a link between the ability to accurately perceive one's environment, and the ability to react to those perceptions.  

Quote from: David Johansen;651218Okay, Armor, What I'm using in Incandescent and In The Shadow of Dragons is armor with an absorbtion limit that becomes DR against softer or lower tech materials.  So if you take a ten point hit and have armor with absorbtion of 5 you take five hits and the armor takes five hits.  

That does make sense.

I've leaned towards a x10 per +10 in the past.  Doubling every five is what HERO does but doubling progressions get into things that aren't particularly round and handy figures like 512 and 1024.

But I'm thinking effect multipliers preserve the 3-18 success range without the resorting to absurd stat levels.  Superman could have Strength 18, Apparent Size + 60 (x1000000) for example.  It's not as simple as giving him Strength 100 but it does preserve the dice range and scale up properly.

As I said before defaults divide the stat.

So 10 = 5 and 18 = 9 at 1/2
and 10 = 3 and 18 = 4 at 1/4

I have an earlier attempt at a GURPS replacement where the stats are completely built out of trait points.  Personally it becomes too complex when dealing with cannon fodder.  I want to retain the root simplicity of the system but I agree that modelling the stats right from the start is important to keeping the system stable in the long term.

Characters
   Characters are built using character points.  Most people are built on around fifty points.  Don't be fooled by their lack of combat or adventuring abilities, most people are pretty good at quite a few things and even very good at one or two things.  Exceptional individuals like action movie heroes can be built seventy five points, in the real world they'd probably be dead anyhow but in game terms, treating them as somewhat superhuman is more fun than just assuming they have plot immunity.  A superhuman is just anyone with access to superhuman abilities.  Superheroes are superhumans built on one hundred points.

Core Characteristics
   All characters are rated for the four Core Characteristics: Agility, Perception, Strength, and Willpower.  These start with a rating of ten, which is the human average.  Core Characteristics are primarily used as the difficulty of resisted actions or used as a quantity.

Agility = 10 + Musculature + Coordination + Reflexes - Size
Intelligence = 10 + Empathy + Memory + Reason
Perception = 10 + Sight + Hearing + Smell
Strength = 10 + Endurance + Musculature + Size
Willpower = 10 + Confidence + Reason + Resolve

Perception
   The general acuity of the character' five senses and their awareness of their surroundings.  It is used as the target number for attempts to sneak up on them or pick their pockets.  The character's Sight, Hearing, and Smell traits may add to Awareness in some circumstances.  Sight is most often applicable but only functions to the front of most creatures.  Hearing is generally shorter ranged and provides little pin point accuracy but works in a three hundred and sixty degree arc.  Smell is also useful but quite dependant on familiarity with the normal smells of the surroundings and the direction of the wind.

Agility
   The combined reaction speed, sense of balance, and muscle to mass advantage that allows the character to avoid attacks.

Perception
   The general acuity of the character's senses as well as their attention to detail and awareness of their surroundings.  Perception resists attempts to sneak up on the character, pick their pockets, or trick them with slight of hand.

Strength
   Reflects the character's mass, muscular development, and bulk.  It is the target number for attempts to shove or lift them and also determines how many points of damage are needed to wound, incapacitate, and kill them.  Strength is often balanced out with reductions in the Agility trait or Speed.

Willpower
   Indicative of patience, determination, and the ability resist social and mental attacks, Willpower is used to resist fear, manipulation, and mind control.
   

Str   Mass   d6      Poly
0   1   1d      1d6   
1   1.3   1d +1      1d6+1
2   1.6   1d+2      1d8
3   2.0   1d+3      1d8+1
4   2.5   2d-1      1d10
5   3.2   2d      1d10+1
6   4.0   2d+1      1d12
7   5.0   2d+2      1d10+1d4
8   6.3   3d-2      1d10+1d6
9   7.9   3d-1      1d10+1d6+1
10   10   3d      1d10+1d8
11   13   3d+1      1d10+1d8+1
12   16   3d+2      2d10
13   19   4d-2      1d12+1d10
14   25   4d-1      1d12+1d10+1
15   31   4d      2d12
16   39   4d+1      2d12+1
17   50   4d+2      1d12+1d10+1d4
18   63   5d-2      2d12+1d4
19   79   5d-1      2d12+1d4+1
20   100   5d      2d12+1d6   

Features
   Features are free aspects of a character that are obtained by meeting a set of qualifications.  For instance a drivers or firearms license costs no points but does require skill in  driving or firearms.  Similarly a reputation modifier is a free feature relating to skills or traits and is not purchased.

Access To Equipment
   The character has all the gear and tools required in their field available to them.  They will have basic stuff like a tool kit or doctor's bag but more expensive gear will be owned by their employer.  They will be able to use the equipment on the side but may be fired if they damage the equipment or are caught using it for financial gain or criminal purposes.

Military Service:
   The character is a member of a military force.  While in the service they have access to free housing, education, and meals but are required to spend the vast majority of their time working for the military and following orders.  They can call upon their comrades in arms to help them out with in reason.

Officer
   The character is a ranking officer in a military force.  The rank is indicated by their Leader skill.  They are in command of those in their own unit and may issue minor orders to enlisted men and lower ranking officers outside of their unit.  Officers are held responsible for the actions of those in their command and are not able to call on their buddies from the unit for a hand as enlisted men are.

Notoriety
   The character and perhaps their family are well known and generally looked down upon, connected with shady dealings or even actually working.  Their name carries some clout in middle class social circles but they are not so well received by high society.

Prestige
   The character's family name is well known and held in high regard by the upper crust of society.  They can get invitations to exclusive clubs and parties as long as they don't become a stain on the family's good name.

Wealth
   Owing to trust funds or investments the character's annual income is ten times that of a well paid professional whether they choose to work or not.  Of course, illegal activities, over drawing on those static resources, and offending powerful family members or investors can strip the character of their wealth.

Traits
   Traits provide combinations of modifiers that can be used to make a character distinct and interesting.  Because they are applied as modifiers, the human average for Traits is zero.

Confidence - Social
   The aspect of the character's personality that allows them to move beyond the traditions and ideas of the masses to make their own mark on the world.

Coordination - Physical
   The character's sense of balance and gross motor skills.

Dexterity - Physical
   Fine motor control and manual manipulation ability.  Most animals have reduced Dexterity because they have no hands.
 
Empathy - Social
   The natural ability to understand the needs and desires of one's fellows and the desire to help them achieve these things, Empathy is a vital part of a character's social skills.

Endurance - Physical
   The physical health and cardiovascular fitness which allows a character to overcome fatigue and exhaustion.

Hearing - Physical
   Measures the character's ability to notice and differentiate sounds.  It Modifies the Music and Singing skills as well as Awareness when detecting sounds.  While hearing is less effective than sight for many tasks, it goes all the way around.

Memory - Mental
   Indicating how well the character can hold onto details, facts, and images, Memory is used for skills that can be learned by rote but still require study and education.

Musculature - Physical
   Measures the degree of muscular development and strength training the character has engaged in.

Reason - Mental
   Shows how well the character can manipulate information and ideas to reach rational and correct conclusions.  Reason is required for skills that focus on problem solving and logical capabilities.

Reflexes - Mental
   The ability to act instinctively without waiting to assess or consider, Reflexes are added to the character's Speed when determining the sequence and when reacting to surprise attacks.

Resolve - Mental
   A measure of the character's ability to stick with their convictions and goals and resist outside influences.  Resolve is a modifier to Willpower when resisting fear and temptation.

Sight - Physical
   The character's clarity of vision.  Acts as a modifier to artistic skill and Perception to see things.  Sight is also particularly important for making ranged attacks.

Size - Physical
   The sheer mass and bulk of the character.  Size increases the damage they inflict in combat and the amount of damage they can absorb.  Size is normally purchased with a reduction in Agility, Dexterity, and / or Reflexes that balances out its cost.

Smell - Physical
   The character's ability to differentiate between various trace gasses and particulate matter with their respiratory system.  Smell is added to Awareness when detecting odors and air borne pollutants.

Skills
   In the interest of containing the number of possible skills, most skills are discrete topics.  Many professions overlap a couple skills.  A business lawyer will need the Accountant and Lawyer skills, a scavenger will need Metal Work and Mechanic.
   
   Every skill gives a bonus to a specific learned activity.  Skills cost 5 points per factor but have -5 Untrained Penalty which must be bought off first.  The points spent directly on a skill are indicative of the level of actual training and education the character has received so any skill requirements are for the number of points spent, not Trait + Skill bonus.  Some Fundamental Skills are so endemic to a culture or so simple that they have no Untrained penalty.  Expert skills are particularly advanced and require another skill to be learned first.  One cannot learn Physicist +3 without learning Mathematician +3 first.


Athletic Field
   Acrobat (Coordination + Musculature)
   Climb (Coordination + Endurance)
   Dancer (Coordination + Endurance)
   Diver (R: Swim, Endurance + Resolve)
   Parachute (Coordination + Confidence )
   Run (Endurance + Coordination)
   Stealth (Coordination + Hearing)
   Swim (Endurance + Coordination)

Combat Field
   Armed Melee (Coordination + Dexterity)
   Bows (Dexterity + Sight)
   Firearms (Dexterity + Sight)
   Gunner (Reason + Dexterity)
   Unarmed Melee (Coordination + Dexterity)

Craft Field
   Artist (Sight + Empathy)
   Carpenter (Musculature + Dexterity)
   Metal Work (Memory + Dexterity)
   Tailor (Memory + Dexterity)
   Tanner (Memory + Constitution)
   Weaver (Memory + Dexterity)

Professional Field
   Accountant (R: Mathematics, Reason + Memory)
   Engineer (R: Mathematics, Reason + Memory)
   Lawyer (Memory + Confidence)
   Physician (Reason + Dexterity)
   Pilot (Reason + Sight)

Science Field
   Astronomer (R: Mathematics, Reason + Memory)
   Biologist (Reason + Memory)
   Chemist (R: Mathematics, Reason + Memory)
   Mathematician (Reason + Memory)
   Physicist (R: Mathematics,  Reason + Memory)
   Psychologist (Empathy + Reason)

Technical Field
   Computer (Reason + Memory)
   Demolition (Reason + Dexterity)
   Drive (Dexterity + Sight)
   Information (Reason + Memory )
   Mechanic (Reason + Dexterity)
   Medic (Reason + Dexterity)
   Navigator (Reason + Memory)
   Programmer (R: Computers, Mathematics, Memory + Reason)
   Signals (Memory + Reason)
Social Field
   Acting (Empathy + Confidence)
   Discipline (Reason + Confidence)
   Etiquette (Confidence + Reason )
   Interaction (Empathy + Confidence)
   Language (Hearing + Memory)
   Leader (Confidence + Empathy)
   Musician ( Hearing + Dexterity)
   Singer (Hearing + Endurance)

Athletic Field
   Acrobat (Coordination + Musculature)
   Training in gymnastics, skateboarding, parkour or other stunts gives the character a bonus to their Dodge rolls and allows them to attempt to avoid being injured in a fall.

   Climb (Coordination + Endurance)
   Experience climbing rocks, trees, and mountains gives the character a bonus to their movement rate through cliffs or ruins.

   Dancer (Coordination + Endurance)
   The character can move to music in a pleasing and entertaining fashion that gives them a bonus when forming a relationship with members of the opposite sex.

   Diver (R: Swim, Endurance)
   The use of self contained underwater breathing apparatus, flippers, wet suits, dry suits, masks, and weight belts to dive deep under water.
   
   Parachute (Coordination + Confidence )
   The character is trained in diving out of airplanes and landing safely using a parachute.

   Run (Endurance+)
   Running is a popular exercise because it is essentially free.  Increases the character's ground movement rate and resists fatigue.

   Stealth (Coordination + Hearing)
   A larcenous lifestyle or military ranger training gives the character a chance to move unseen between cover.  A twenty-side die roll must exceed the Intelligence of any enemies with line of sight to the character.  Suppression fire cannot be snuck through but Over Watch can be.

   Swim (Endurance + Musculature)
   Experience and time spent in the water gives the character a bonus to move through rivers and lakes.   Swim increases the character's movement rate and resists fatigue in water that is at least waist deep.

Combat Field
   Armed Melee (Coordination + Dexterity)
   For much of history close combat with swords and spears was the dominant form of warfare.  In the modern world such techniques are more likely learned in a martial arts class or historical re-enactment society.
 
   Bows (Dexterity + Sight)
   The use of bows and crossbows was an integral part of hunting and warfare.  In modern times, they have been replaced by firearms and are primarily a hobby or sport.
    
   Firearms (Dexterity + Sight)
   The character has experience and training with small arms from pistols to machine guns and receives a bonus when shooting them.

   Gunner (Reason + Dexterity)
   Training and experience with cannon, mortars, missile launchers and other heavy weapons gives the character a bonus when shooting them.

   Unarmed Melee (Coordination + Dexterity)
      Martial arts, military hand to hand classes or just a long career as a brawler give the character an advantage when fighting unarmed.

Craft Field
   Artist (Sight + Empathy)
   The practice and study of the visual arts, including drawing, painting, sculpting, and printmaking allow the character to produce appealing and evocative images and objects.  For some projects craft skills like Weaving or Metal Work may also be necessary.

   Carpenter (Musculature + Dexterity)
   The character is skilled in the use of power tools to make structures out of wood.

   Metal Work (Memory + Dexterity)
   Creating useful parts and tools can be created out of metal by welding, cutting, and bending.  Advanced automated machining also requires the Computer skill.

   Tailor (Memory + Dexterity)
   The practical skill of sewing and fitting clothing out of various fabrics.

   Tanner (Memory + Constitution)
   The practical skill of curing hides to produce leather.

   Weaver (Memory + Dexterity)
   The practical skill of producing fabric from raw fibers like wool, cotton, linen, and polyester.  Operating modern industrial looms require computer skill as well as Weaving.

Professional Field
   Accountant (R: Mathematics, Reason + Memory)
   The character's education in business and money management gives them a bonus when attempting to purchase items or find irregularities in financial records.

   Engineer (R: Mathematics, Reason + Memory)
   Being trained in physics and materials allows the character to design buildings and vehicles but not construct them.  Engineer also provides a bonus to assess the capabilities of unknown vehicles.

   Lawyer (Memory + Confidence)
   The character has studied the laws and their foundations in principle and practice and is capable of acting as a solicitor in a court of law.

   Physician (Reason + Dexterity)
   The study of physiology and pathology in the practice of treating wounds and curing diseases give the character a bonus to properly diagnose and treat medical conditions.

   Pilot (Reason + Sight)
   Having studied the physics of flight in theory and practice, the character can fly aircraft and receives a bonus to avoid crashing due to damage or obstacles.

Science Field
   Astronomer (R: Mathematics, Reason + Memory)
   The character is skilled in computing and measuring the position and motion of the planets and stars.  Even in modern times this isn't a particularly practical ability but in science fiction settings it becomes the vital skill of deep space navigation.

   Biologist (Reason + Memory)
   The study of life, ecology, and physiology, biology is a vital tool for physicians working to cure diseases and create new pharmaceuticals.

   Chemist (R: Mathematics, Reason + Memory)
   The chemist studies the elements and the ways in which they combine to make up various compounds.  Aside from lucrative jobs in the petroleum and pharmaceutical industries, Chemists can manufacture explosives from common household chemicals.

   Mathematician (Reason + Memory)
   The foundation of the sciences is the study of numbers and logic.  The mathematics skill includes statistics and calculus.

   Physicist (R: Mathematics,  Reason + Memory)
   The study of motion and structure, physics is used to design vehicles and put satellites in orbit.

   Psychologist (Empathy + Reason)
   The human mind is a complex subject in its own right.  Psychologists specialize in understanding motivation and social interactions.  A psychiatrist is a physician with the psychology skill.

Technical Field
   Computer (Reason + Memory)
   The digital processing machine becomes more ubiquitous and indispensable as technology marches forward.  In the modern age computers are found in everything from automobiles to coffee makers.  This skill is used to operate a general purpose computer, specialized units like those in coffee makers and automobiles are programmed at the factory and are beyond the scope of this skill.

   Demolition (Reason + Dexterity)
   Specialized training with explosives allows the character to plant and disarm explosives.

   Drive (Dexterity + Sight)
   Time and experience behind the wheel give the character a bonus to avoid collisions and retain control of ground vehicles the are driving.   

   Information (Reason + Memory )
   The character is experienced in data management, storage and retrieval.  Whether this is in a library, filing cabinet, or computer database.

   Mechanic (Reason + Dexterity)
   Training in the practical repair and maintenance of motor vehicles gives a bonus to fix damaged vehicle systems.

   Medic (Reason + Dexterity)
   Training in first aid and trauma relief give the character a bonus to stabilize and even revive wounded  comrades.

   Navigator (Reason + Memory)
   The character can find their way around without getting lost.

   Programmer (R: Computers, Mathematics, Memory + Reason)
   The character has studied the workings of computers and is able to develop and disassemble software, hack security systems and generally make non-programmers feel inadequate and ignorant.

   Signals (Memory + Reason)
   The character is skilled in the operation of advanced communications and sensor devices ranging from cell phones to radar satellites.
 
Social Field
   Acting (Empathy + Confidence)
   The character can memorize lines, imitate others, and keep a straight face in the face of absurdly bad writing.
   
   Discipline (Reason + Confidence)
   Military training gives the character the tools to face certain death and get the job done.

   Etiquette (Confidence + Reason )
   The character has learned the social conventions of high society and is well versed in terms of address, appropriate attire, and dining table manners.

   Interaction (Empathy + Confidence)
   The character is easy to get along with and good with people.

   Language (Hearing + Memory)
   The foundation of communication is a consistent system of terms and structures.  Each language is a separate skill.  Low ratings generally indicate an illiterate individual.

   Leader (Confidence + Empathy)
   The character knows how to motivate and inspire their fellow men and stay ahead of the mob.

   Musician ( Hearing + Dexterity)
   The character can read music and play musical instruments.

   Singer (Hearing + Endurance)
   The character can sing in a pleasing fashion.

Quote from: Phillip;651267For weight lifting, doubling per 5 points seems convenient to me (if Olympic champions can get an effective score of 21). That's just off the cuff; I don't have statistics for the spread in various populations.

Yes, I totally agree. IMO the +5=X2 is a good way to go.

Quote from: Phillip;651267For running, you might want a different scale.

I'd use the same scale for that, but I assume that we are talking about Kinetic Energy (meaning damage), which equates to what we'd see from doubling strength).

But here is the thing Kinetic Energy does not directly equate to velocity.

KE = 1/2 Mass X Velocity Squared

This means that each time we double velocity we quadruple the KE. But we don't want to quadruple the KE for each +5 points.

So I'd do the progression like this:

+5 = 2X KE
+10 = 4X KE and 2 X Velocity
+15 = 8X KE
+20 = 16X KE and 4X velocity

So +10 point may quadruple what you can lift, and quadruple the damage you can do, but it would only double your velocity. I'd assume that an average person could run about 12 mph, and the max sprint would be about 24 mph (which is not perfect, but comes pretty close to real world stats).

Quote from: David Johansen;651271I've leaned towards a x10 per +10 in the past.  Doubling every five is what HERO does but doubling progressions get into things that aren't particularly round and handy figures like 512 and 1024.

That is true. But 1024 is not far from 1000, especially for the figures that we are using for the game (2% off is fine for game numbers IMO). Therefore I tend to assume the following type of progression which you can see repeats nicely. . . .

1
2
4
8
16
32
64
128
256
512
1 thousand
2 thousand
4 thousand
8 thousand
16 thousand
32 thousand
64 thousand
128 thousand
256 thousand
512 thousand
1 million
2 million
4 million
8 million
16 million
32 million
64 million
128 million
256 million
512 million
1 billion (and the pattern repeats with each ineration going up by factors of 10 to the 3rd power)