First things first, im not an native English speaker, so pardon my grammar.
So i have some questions regarding old ttrpgs books:
Let's say i want to buy DnD 2nd edition and some supplements, do they still sell it? Physical and digital?
And If the answer is yes, the books are the same as they were originally released? or theres censorship or changes for "modern sensibilities"?
Is there a way to get the original books without buying an old copy, pirating or priting it myself?
Quote from: arctic_fox on February 12, 2022, 01:54:32 PM
First things first, im not an native English speaker, so pardon my grammar.
So i have some questions regarding old ttrpgs books:
Let's say i want to buy DnD 2nd edition and some supplements, do they still sell it? Physical and digital?
And If the answer is yes, the books are the same as they were originally released? or theres censorship or changes for "modern sensibilities"?
Is there a way to get the original books without buying an old copy, pirating or priting it myself?
A few years back, they did premium reprints of the AD&D 2nd edition core books. They're exact copies, but they're exact copies of the 1995 "v2.5" edition. So while there's no censoring, the art and layout is inferior to the 1989 editions. The premium books are out of print, but you can still find copies on the aftermarket.
However, Wizards of the Coast has outsourced their classic D&D line, including 2nd edition, to OneBookShelf. OBS is the parent company of DriveThruRPG, and also hosts a new website created specifically for WotC products, the DM's Guild. Go the classic section, and then filter by edition (2nd):
https://www.dmsguild.com/browse.php?filters=45471_0_0_0_0_45347_0_0&src=fid45347
A huge number of D&D classic books are now available as PDFs. Some are available via print on demand (filter by "print"), and the POD books are printed by Lightning Source and generally decent quality. The core books use the same masters as the older premium editions, except they're printed using POD technology instead of offset printing.
None of these books are censored. Instead, they put big content warnings on the top of all the product pages (web, not the books themselves).
Quote from: arctic_fox on February 12, 2022, 01:54:32 PM
First things first, im not an native English speaker, so pardon my grammar.
So i have some questions regarding old ttrpgs books:
Let's say i want to buy DnD 2nd edition and some supplements, do they still sell it? Physical and digital?
And If the answer is yes, the books are the same as they were originally released? or theres censorship or changes for "modern sensibilities"?
Is there a way to get the original books without buying an old copy, pirating or priting it myself?
WotC has made the TSR back catalogue available on PDf or Print on demand on drive thru rpg. They're fairly cheap.
Nothing is altered - other than a disclaimer saying that past stuff was wraciss-bad - but they'll take your money anyway...
They are printed in bound booklet form though so you don't have the cardstock cover with maps, etc, that separated from the booklet like the originals.
Otherwise there is Ebay and such for the originals if you don't want to give WotC even a penny.
That's pretty much it if you want to get them legit....
Also what Pat said, because I evidently take too long to type.
Besides being able to get the 2.5 Premium Edition reprints from DriveThru, there's always the used market. The core books in very good condition typically go for about the price of the new modern 5E books or much less in my area.
The Complete Handbooks can be crazy $, but most of them are trash anyway. ;D
I've recently started putting together a 2e collection again after getting rid of mine 20+ years ago in college. I've done it with a mix of WotC POD reprints and Ebay. I've mostly settled on EBay because the box sets and some old adventures included maps, handouts, screens, etc. Plus not giving WotC money.
POD reprints is a very good way to go in terms of cost effectiveness. Nothing is missing except for the occasional fuck up but they honestly have those mostly fixed now. Unless you have more money than sense (like me) I'd suggest sticking to that channel.
Quote from: KingCheops on February 12, 2022, 04:26:45 PM
I've recently started putting together a 2e collection again after getting rid of mine 20+ years ago in college. I've done it with a mix of WotC POD reprints and Ebay. I've mostly settled on EBay because the box sets and some old adventures included maps, handouts, screens, etc. Plus not giving WotC money.
POD reprints is a very good way to go in terms of cost effectiveness. Nothing is missing except for the occasional fuck up but they honestly have those mostly fixed now. Unless you have more money than sense (like me) I'd suggest sticking to that channel.
You and Jaeger make a very good point about the extra components. The POD reprints are fine for text, but they're really bad for large fold out maps or pages of counters. Fortunately, the PDFs are better at that. But it's a definite weakness of the new versions.
Another thing to consider is most of the old booklets of 96 pages or less were saddle stitched, i.e. stapled. This includes most modules, and the contents of most box sets. One major virtue of the saddle stitched format is it allows the booklets to lay flat. By contrast, the print on demand books are all perfect bound, i.e. glued. They don't lay flat, unless you want to break the the binding. I find this to be a significant loss.
I bought a 2e AD&D PHB a few years ago, it was pretty cheap. Suggest Ebay if amazon no good.
Hunt down the originals in used book stores, game stores with used sections, or online forums like Dragonsfoot which has an active Old School marketplace or eBay.
Skip the reprints.
I own reprints from almost all my favorites.
They are described here:
https://methodsetmadness.blogspot.com/2021/03/big-d-sale-gms-day-2021-brp-d100-stuff.html
All my reprints look very good with two exceptions:
- My RC print is a bit "fuzzy" for some reason. Other people say it's fine but I'm not the only one complaining about the RC.
- I didn't buy 2e books (except the MM. it looks great) because I find the "new" version horrendous.
The 1e DMG, 2e MM (in full color), FF, and Dark Sun all look great.
Of course, originals might be better for maps, being saddle stitched, etc., but if you want to read the books the POD certainyl get the job done.
Depends on what you are looking for.
The core books aren't super expensive on the second hand market and are not too difficult to find.
If you want something like Planescape, it will be much more economical to get it from DriveThru (either in PDF form or a reprint).
Quote from: KingCheops on February 12, 2022, 04:26:45 PM
I've recently started putting together a 2e collection again after getting rid of mine 20+ years ago in college. I've done it with a mix of WotC POD reprints and Ebay. I've mostly settled on EBay because the box sets and some old adventures included maps, handouts, screens, etc. Plus not giving WotC money.
POD reprints is a very good way to go in terms of cost effectiveness. Nothing is missing except for the occasional fuck up but they honestly have those mostly fixed now. Unless you have more money than sense (like me) I'd suggest sticking to that channel.
I've *never* gotten rid of any of my TTRPG books. You can never be sure they'll be available years later (or become cost prohibitive) or that they'll be edited to remove the original content. Even if they sit on a shelf for a decade, you have the info. Because, unlike a novel, TTRPG books are, in essence, reference material like a dictionary or a set of encyclopedias.
Quote from: 3catcircus on February 15, 2022, 03:23:14 PM
Quote from: KingCheops on February 12, 2022, 04:26:45 PM
I've recently started putting together a 2e collection again after getting rid of mine 20+ years ago in college. I've done it with a mix of WotC POD reprints and Ebay. I've mostly settled on EBay because the box sets and some old adventures included maps, handouts, screens, etc. Plus not giving WotC money.
POD reprints is a very good way to go in terms of cost effectiveness. Nothing is missing except for the occasional fuck up but they honestly have those mostly fixed now. Unless you have more money than sense (like me) I'd suggest sticking to that channel.
I've *never* gotten rid of any of my TTRPG books. You can never be sure they'll be available years later (or become cost prohibitive) or that they'll be edited to remove the original content. Even if they sit on a shelf for a decade, you have the info. Because, unlike a novel, TTRPG books are, in essence, reference material like a dictionary or a set of encyclopedias.
All fine and dandy for me now that I'm in the house that I will only move out of when they remove me in a coffin. However, when I was a young college student and often moving or else out of beer money maintaining a large library of books was difficult.
Quote from: 3catcircus on February 15, 2022, 03:23:14 PM
Quote from: KingCheops on February 12, 2022, 04:26:45 PM
I've recently started putting together a 2e collection again after getting rid of mine 20+ years ago in college. I've done it with a mix of WotC POD reprints and Ebay. I've mostly settled on EBay because the box sets and some old adventures included maps, handouts, screens, etc. Plus not giving WotC money.
POD reprints is a very good way to go in terms of cost effectiveness. Nothing is missing except for the occasional fuck up but they honestly have those mostly fixed now. Unless you have more money than sense (like me) I'd suggest sticking to that channel.
I've *never* gotten rid of any of my TTRPG books. You can never be sure they'll be available years later (or become cost prohibitive) or that they'll be edited to remove the original content. Even if they sit on a shelf for a decade, you have the info. Because, unlike a novel, TTRPG books are, in essence, reference material like a dictionary or a set of encyclopedias.
Thats precisely what worries me the most. The fact that those books can be revised and republished without any warning.
And sure you can hold an old book for as long as you can, but eventually it will come apart, thats why is important to have a digital version of the original material, but what waranty do we have that theyll publish such thing?
Those people don't have any respect for heritage, they would actually happilly erase anything to do with the original material.
Quote from: arctic_fox on February 15, 2022, 10:01:00 PM
Thats precisely what worries me the most. The fact that those books can be revised and republished without any warning.
And sure you can hold an old book for as long as you can, but eventually it will come apart, thats why is important to have a digital version of the original material, but what waranty do we have that theyll publish such thing?
Those people don't have any respect for heritage, they would actually happilly erase anything to do with the original material.
There are tons of technically pirated PDFs of the original books, along with retro-clones with nearly all of the original material. Even if one doesn't use these directly and still buys the PDFs legally, one can do a check of pirated PDFs against the currently published PDFs - and publicize any differences. As far as I know, there are none.
This isn't like Star Wars where it's very difficult to find and download the original film because of aging and technology changes. The PDFs are quite small and easy to pass around (approx. 25 megs).
Quote from: jhkim on February 15, 2022, 10:39:10 PM
Quote from: arctic_fox on February 15, 2022, 10:01:00 PM
Thats precisely what worries me the most. The fact that those books can be revised and republished without any warning.
And sure you can hold an old book for as long as you can, but eventually it will come apart, thats why is important to have a digital version of the original material, but what waranty do we have that theyll publish such thing?
Those people don't have any respect for heritage, they would actually happilly erase anything to do with the original material.
There are tons of technically pirated PDFs of the original books, along with retro-clones with nearly all of the original material. Even if one doesn't use these directly and still buys the PDFs legally, one can do a check of pirated PDFs against the currently published PDFs - and publicize any differences. As far as I know, there are none.
This isn't like Star Wars where it's very difficult to find and download the original film because of aging and technology changes. The PDFs are quite small and easy to pass around (approx. 25 megs).
The fact that if a normie or whatever (people that just don't know what's going on in general) wants to buy this stuff, they'll just buy some revised shit because that's what's they're selling... And that if you want the real deal you'll have to depend of scans of old books, yeah i think that's really concerning mate.
Quote from: arctic_fox on February 15, 2022, 11:17:39 PM
The fact that if a normie or whatever (people that just don't know what's going on in general) wants to buy this stuff, they'll just buy some revised shit because that's what's they're selling... And that if you want the real deal you'll have to depend of scans of old books, yeah i think that's really concerning mate.
My point was that as far as I know, such revisions don't exist. The older edition D&D PDFs are exactly the content as they were originally sold. It's relatively easy to check because of pre-existing pirate copies.
If you're in doubt about a given product, I can confirm.
Quote from: arctic_fox on February 15, 2022, 11:17:39 PM
The fact that if a normie or whatever (people that just don't know what's going on in general) wants to buy this stuff, they'll just buy some revised shit because that's what's they're selling... And that if you want the real deal you'll have to depend of scans of old books, yeah i think that's really concerning mate.
It's easier just to pull the pre-desktop publishing revolution materials than to remaster and edit those old books. All the old TSR-era products on DriveThru are PDFs with OCR for searching. It's not just a search and replacement to "fix" them.
Quote from: jhkim on February 15, 2022, 11:54:13 PM
Quote from: arctic_fox on February 15, 2022, 11:17:39 PM
The fact that if a normie or whatever (people that just don't know what's going on in general) wants to buy this stuff, they'll just buy some revised shit because that's what's they're selling... And that if you want the real deal you'll have to depend of scans of old books, yeah i think that's really concerning mate.
My point was that as far as I know, such revisions don't exist. The older edition D&D PDFs are exactly the content as they were originally sold. It's relatively easy to check because of pre-existing pirate copies.
If you're in doubt about a given product, I can confirm.
Well as i said on the first post, i don't really know if it is happening, but im sure that it is totally possible, like the Dr Seuss books that they halted the production from nowhere and it is currently being revisioned because of some cartoonish illustration. Not gonna lie, it's pretty big from Wotc to continue selling this stuff, considering the direction that the company is going.
I own a 2nd Edition AD&D PHB Premium Edition Reprint. Flipping through it, makes me want to play D&D. I think it's a direct reprint of the mid 1990's product; which was the first D&D book I ever purchased. The premium reprints are well made, and have classy looking covers. They'd fit right in, on a lawyer's bookshelf.