Hopefully we can keep peoples' family lives out of it this time.

So two things have happened recently with regards to Fading Suns.

One a copy of a 'Playtest Document' has found itself onto various file sharing sites, despite RedBrick actively trying to get pulled down. Only, it's not really a Playtest Document, as it's a fully laid out rulebook, with art, and frankly 100% times better than any version of Fading Suns to boot.

Secondly, Angus (The guy they fired who basically put the thing together over the past 4 years, unpaid) is apparently in negotiations with Holistic Design (the rights holders) to release his version as a free .pdf anyway.


The 'Playtest Document' is good enough on its own that I can't see why anyone would buy a version from RedBrick unless they actually somehow improve on it. Where as if Angus gets to release his version as a pdf realistically RedBrick's version is dead in the water.

Given RBs rather lacklustre plans for FS3 even before this mess, I don't think the impact is all that huge.

In his blog, Angus says he would like to conduct an open playtest of not-Fading-Suns-3.

I'm excited.

Quote from: jadrax;545993Secondly, Angus (The guy they fired who basically put the thing together over the past 4 years, unpaid) is apparently in negotiations with Holistic Design (the rights holders) to release his version as a free .pdf anyway.

Unfortunately, I don't think they can do that, unless Holistic Designs decides they won't be licensing Fading Suns to Redbrick anymore.

Quote from: Claudius;545997Unfortunately, I don't think they can do that, unless Holistic Designs decides they won't be licensing Fading Suns to Redbrick anymore.

Legally? God knows, we would have to read the actual licence agreement to know that, and perhaps take a degree in Law and/or soothsaying.

Practically, yes, I cannot see the business relationship surviving it.

Well the business relationship is not worth all that much anymore with RedBrick firing the designer of an apparently very well designed rule book and that rule book already being out on filesharing networks.
What reason is there left to give the license to RedBrick in the first place? An penchant for overpriced PoD books can't be the right answer.

I have found this whole business rather unpleasant, since the revelation (at least to me) regarding the RB guy's personal life. Whether or not that has any bearing on this matter I don't know - but that's the problem, we don't know.

There's been a rabid baying for the blood of RB that I have found distasteful and consequently I have tried to argue that people should judge this fairly. I don't think they haven't.

There may be good reason why RB hasn't seemed to have handled this as well as they perhaps ought to. I have no dog in this race, but it's not looking good for them. However I don't care for FS fanboys ragging on RB like they are owed something, all based on one person's blog which, to be blunt, may or may not be true. I support the rights of any writer to be treated fairly, but all I have to go on is his blog - that's it.

Quote from: DominikSchwager;546002Well the business relationship is not worth all that much anymore with RedBrick firing the designer of an apparently very well designed rule book and that rule book already being out on filesharing networks.
What reason is there left to give the license to RedBrick in the first place? An penchant for overpriced PoD books can't be the right answer.

So RB get shafted because someone releases a pirate version of the playtest rules that just happen to be in a finished state? Is that legal or fair?

Casten Damm has been pretty quick to confirm everything Angus has said, although as he is another disgruntled RedBrick employee, take that as you will.

I would simply like to hear what RB has to say directly. Until then it really is just hearsay. It makes no sense to assume that RB spazzed out and decided to chuck their toys out the pram with the consequence being they would damn their business and throw out a whole heap of good work. What could be worth that?

I would like to hear what RedBrick says directly, I think everyone would like that. But the only thing they have to say is fuck off we don't have to talk to you, and were shutting down our forums until you get the hint.

Yes, it is possible that they somehow had a good reason for what they did. But in the absence of them providing it I am not going to start inventing reasons on their behalf.

On the one hand, they are failing to make a product people want, despite promising it to them. On the other hand, they are failing to pay their employees. And even if the latter is legal, it is certainly not fair.

RB has fucked themselves. Angus could be Satan incarnate, but the way it was handled just makes him look a martyr. Which he may well be. Who knows? Redbrick is finished either way.

Quote from: Killfuck Soulshitter;546033RB has fucked themselves. Angus could be Satan incarnate, but the way it was handled just makes him look a martyr. Which he may well be. Who knows? Redbrick is finished either way.

Indeed. But posting up the playtest rules out of spite seems to be the spade that dug the grave. I'm by no means anti-piracy (i've been reading the old victory games 007 rpg off a pdf download, mining it for ideas ffs), but there are limits!

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying whoever released the Playtest document did the right thing.

I'm more likely to buy a game if I can read the PDF and see that it's a quality product.