Quote from: Spinachcat;1140033Interesting! Tell us more. What makes DragonQuest special? I've never played it.

Don't encourage us to talk about that, because you'll probably get me to start a thread.  And then you'll suck up all my limited free time talking about DQ.  Let's see if Shawn can give you the shorter version first before I get sucked into that ...

No surprise to anyone that I'd say Fantasy Craft. At least I can't remember any wokeness in it. d6 Fantasy also had a neat system, if memory serves. Always wanted to try it out sometime. And Earthdawn is an absolutely magical setting with a system that works pretty well, but can be a bit daunting in places. Lots to track, especially once tying strings to things gets involved(it makes sense in setting).

I'm sure someone will point out the error of my ways (and, quite frankly, I'd welcome it, along with examples), but we're still running strong with 3E/3.5, and don't really notice any wokeness from that system.  Perhaps we're just inured to it at this point (in which case, I do truly welcome examples of 3E/3.5's wokeness, or blatant examples in other d20 properties (but I'm already familiar with the Woke Venisonocracy of Blue Rose)).

The Arcanum.

Fits AD&D rules with simple rules. Better rules, like AC as armor reduction and a Perception stat.

You read the rules and get what you want ----

I don't find 5e to be problematically woke.

Quote from: Naburimannu;1140136I don't find 5e to be problematically woke.

PHB-DMG-MM really are not. Nor are the early campaign adventures. It only went full Woke when Jeremy Crawford got to turn FR into his Magical Realm with Waterdeep: Dragon Heist. Mearls is a weak left-liberal not an SJW.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1139841I'm taking the idea another step. For people seeking to replace WotC/Paizo fantasy, what do you recommend and why?

Agree with you on Palladium Fantasy: wonky, but great.

My go-tos include:

• Original D&D - If you want the original, and want a classic foundation on which to "make the game your own."
  
• 1e AD&D - If you want what I would consider to be the de facto standard for "*this* is D&D." If you can't acquire the original books, OSRIC is a fine stand-in (free PDF or the 400 pg. hardcover from Black Blade Publishing, which is only $26 -- an absolute steal).
  
• Stormbringer 1e - A flavorful spin using BRP in the Young Kingdoms. A cool take on magic/sorcery. Combat is less complex than RQ (e.g., no hit locations). Old enough that it is uninfected by any recent social movements.
  
• BRP Gold Book - A toolkit for the BRP system. You can roll your own BRP-based game/system with this and do just about anything with it.
  
• Astonishing Swordsmen & Sorcerers of Hyperborea - An AD&Dish retro-clone done very well. Cool subclasses. Cool swords-n-sorcery style setting. Cool art.
  

A little farther afield, some other games I appreciate or have had a blast with include:

• Rolemaster 2e - Probably not for everyone, but we had some great gaming with RM2 (mostly set in Middle Earth using I.C.E. supplements). If you go here, I'd advise sticking with the core rules and ignoring any temptation to include a lot from the Companion supplements.
  
• I.C.E. MERP - If you want "Rolemaster light" instead of full Rolemaster.
  
• Bushido - Another "may not be for everyone" game with quirky FGU rules, but they work really well and the system was perfect for the kind of "fantasy Japan" game I ran using it.
  
• Flashing Blades - Another FGU game, and one which I haven't run a full campaign with, but desperately want to. The combat system is very cool, and the rules for organizations and campaign play are rich and seem right up my alley.
  
• Dangerous Journeys: Mythus - If you can get past the weird terminology (which Gygax used to try and ward off legal issues) and the somewhat dark and hard-to-read presentation, this is a cool game. It's kind of like Advanced Advanced D&D...sorta. PCs start off pretty powerful (maybe equivalent to a 5th or 6th level D&D PC). The magic system is rich. It's a somewhat complex system, but in actual play it runs pretty smoothly (although you'll need to get the hang of it). This one is fun, but you kinda have to want it.
  

Also, Pundit's Lion & Dragon is a neat clone-style game. I confess I haven't run it as its own thing, but I've referenced and borrowed from it for my own homebrew D&D game (which is a bit more swords-n-sorcery, but also has some of that "medieval authentic" feel to it).

Quote from: S'mon;1140142PHB-DMG-MM really are not. Nor are the early campaign adventures. It only went full Woke when Jeremy Crawford got to turn FR into his Magical Realm with Waterdeep: Dragon Heist. Mearls is a weak left-liberal not an SJW.

Chris Perkins turned into a magic Unicorn somewhere along the line.

Quote from: Shasarak;1140244Chris Perkins turned into a magic Unicorn somewhere along the line.

I'd say the PHB was woke enough, pushing it's homosexuality and transgender agenda.

Quote from: Shasarak;1140244Chris Perkins turned into a magic Unicorn somewhere along the line.

Yes, I don't know how anyone could tell if he were woke or not.  He's always been a strange bird when it comes to RPG choices.  Not necessarily good or bad, just off, like a Star Trek character that had a transporter accident and is now 5% out of phase with reality.  He has an RPG Uncanny Valley Aura that he take everywhere he goes.  So magic unicorn works as well as anything else.

I am not being ironic

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I highly recommend anything from Thomas Denmark at Night Owl Workshop. He's put out some really great little OSR games - Warriors of the Red Planet (John Carter of Mars), Colonial Troopers (Starship Troopers/Colonial Marines), Raiders of the Lost Artifacts (Indiana Jones), Guardians (superheroes), and Freebooters (a narrative game about newly liberated bootmakers). All are very well thought out, designed, and presented, and very reasonably priced.

Quote from: S'mon;11399431e AD&D is awesomely non-woke. I find myself making it MORE politically correct - eg my Gnolls have strong confident female leaders.

Hilarious and true (non-woke enough to require a disclaimer, warning the hapless purchaser)
Another vote for 1e from me.

Along the same lines, I really like the material from BRW Games.
I find some of their enhancements to 1e style interesting and well done.
A Curious Volume of Forgotten Lore:  Can be used in tandem with 1e or,
Adventures Dark and Deep as standalone:

Quote from: Steven Mitchell;1140042Don't encourage us to talk about that, because you'll probably get me to start a thread.  And then you'll suck up all my limited free time talking about DQ.  Let's see if Shawn can give you the shorter version first before I get sucked into that ...

I used to own the 2nd edition softcover white book.  That guy looked just so chuffed holding that severed dragon's head.
Wish finding print copy wasn't so difficult and/or expensive.
Now I want to see that standalone description thread you threatened us with as I vaguely remember the combat system being quite good.

Quote from: Theory of Games;1140089The Arcanum.

Fits AD&D rules with simple rules. Better rules, like AC as armor reduction and a Perception stat.

You read the rules and get what you want ----

Unfortunately, missed the 30th Anniversary Kickstarter and sort of forgot about it.
As I like AD&D, will investigate further as it seems there is a POD option
Thanks for reminding me.

Quote from: 1989;1140261I'd say the PHB was woke enough, pushing it's homosexuality and transgender agenda.

The 5e Player's Handbook has a homosexual and transgender agenda?

Really? This is news to me.

Quote from: S'mon;1140142PHB-DMG-MM really are not. Nor are the early campaign adventures. It only went full Woke when Jeremy Crawford got to turn FR into his Magical Realm with Waterdeep: Dragon Heist. Mearls is a weak left-liberal not an SJW.

Hmmm, I dunno. It was Mearls who did the infamous tweet where he fired all of us.