Okay so if I was going to buy and Indie Game, which one(s) would folks recommend and why?
Well, what do you like? There's quite a lot of variety. Does 'indie' mean 'Forge', or do you mean everything small-press?
I live in the UK so availability is an issue (since postage to the UK has put me off buying stuff from the USA before now), but I've no objections to buying PDF and printing a copy.
I tend not to like high magic settings, or fantasy particularly, more of a Sci-fi or modern/horror guy.
I don't particularly have any perception of what indie or the Forge mean, having not visited the Forge, or knowingly purchased an indie game before.
Well – the granddaddy of all the Forge games is Sorcerer (http://www.indiepressrevolution.com/products.php?publisherLink=adept), which could be described as modern horror. That only comes as a book.
If you want to try something different for free, there's Vincent Baker's playtest documents for Afraid (http://www.lumpley.com/comment.php?entry=201), his hack for Dogs in the Vineyard.
Science-fiction is an interesting question. On the one hand there's Burning Empires (http://www.key20.com/product.php?productid=204) (book and PDF), which has all the trappings of SF, but it's arguable according to your defintion of SF (is Star Wars SF? Trek?).
On the other hand there's the recently released Shock (http://www.glyphpress.com/shock/) (book only), which is supposedly about SF in the vein of social speculation, rather than space battles and alien invaders.
There's a bit of an idea of the variety available.
Dude. Hard Nova II from Politically Incorrect Games. Rules-light, delightful and exciting.
This, Bagpuss, is where you need to get detailed about what you're looking for if this thread is going to be of much use to you. A quick look at info for Hard Nova, for example, seems to indicate that it's a fairly straightforward RPG. Shock, for example, isn't, and if you got it thinking it was a rules-lite traditional RPG, you'd be unhappy. The confusion comes from the word 'indie'.
Small Press or Thematic, that is here the question!
Can't I be interested in both? I must say Shock looks interesting (although I'm not sure my group would ever play it), and it's fixed price shipping is appealing.
I'd suggest SLA Industries. It may be a little outside of the indie now but it is certainly small press. Now admittedly the mechanics struggle to work with the setting they are trying to tell (apparently there is a new eddition coming out). But the setting is one of the coolest dark Sci-Fi settings I've ever had the pleasure to read through.
Quote from: BagpussCan't I be interested in both? I must say Shock looks interesting (although I'm not sure my group would ever play it), and it's fixed price shipping is appealing.
Okay... as long as you know....
Shock does look interesting. I grew up in the 70s on that sort of stuff, and I've always felt a lack of it in published SF games.
Quote from: kryystI'd suggest SLA Industries. It may be a little outside of the indie now but it is certainly small press. Now admittedly the mechanics struggle to work with the setting they are trying to tell (apparently there is a new eddition coming out). But the setting is one of the coolest dark Sci-Fi settings I've ever had the pleasure to read through.
There's new material coming out for the current edition, a new edition should be a ways off yet but will, hopefully, be compatible but address people's issues with the rules.
SF Games are what we do. Check out StarCluster 2, (http://jalan.flyingmice.com/starcluster.html) Cold Space (http://jalan.flyingmice.com/coldspace.html), and it's sequel FTL Now (http://jalan.flyingmice.com/ftlnow.html). I have other games (http://jalan.flyingmice.com/) - my best and favorite is In Harm's Way: A Napoleonic Naval Roleplaying Game (http://jalan.flyingmice.com/ihw.html).
All of them are traditional RPGs - nothing close to the edge. If you are looking for that, I'm sorry. Usually "indie" means "Forge-associated" which does not describe my games, but some people use it to mean any small press.
A couple of excellent traditional Small Press game companies I highly recommend are Politically Incorrect Games (PiG) (http://www.pigames.net/) and Hinterwelt Enterprises (http://www.hinterwelt.com/). Both of these companies put out awesome, solid, traditional RPG games.
For non-traditional "indie" games, I recommend Dogs in the Vinyard, The Shadow of Yesterday, The Riddle of Steel, Burning Wheel, and Polaris. Very well made and bursting with ideas, just not my kettle of fish.
Enjoy!
-clash
Quote from: flyingmiceFor non-traditional "indie" games, I recommend Dogs in the Vinyard, The Shadow of Yesterday, The Riddle of Steel, Burning Wheel, and Polaris.
Why those ones in particular?
Burning Empires is proving a good read so far. Could be interesting to play.
Quote from: droogWhy those ones in particular?
Hi Droog:
Because I've read them, and thought they had interesting things about them and were well written, just not anything I'd want to play. I didn't recommend Shock, for example, because I haven't read it. I recommended Dogs, for example, because I thought the town creation mechanics were wonderfully well done, and I love the concept of playing Mormon fists-of-God. The only one I could maybe see myself playing was RoS, which is fairly trad, but it's way too fussy for me in the combat, which is kind of the point of the game.
-clash
Added: I try to separate taste from quality. I thought these games were high quality, just not to my taste - therefore, they may appeal to Bagpuss.
I'll second The Shadow of Yesterday. It's an excellent little game, self-contained, and fairly traditional. It's mix of "forgie" conflict resolution mixed with task based resolution (Bringin Down the Pain) is pretty damn cool and an excellent introduction to less traditional mechanics.
It has enough of the trappings of a traditonal RPG (GM, linear advancement, a medieval/Renaissance setting) and the best implementation of the tamer Forge stuff (conflict resolution, character based stories, limited player narration). I heartily recommend it.
For thematic stuff, I would recommend Prime Time Adventures, and I would recommend it for this reason:
http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=19780.0
Which is a seriously cool actual play thread.
For small press, I would recommend Jags Wonderland, excellent even if you are not into the Jags ruleset itself http://www.jagsrpg.org/ you need to scroll down the page a bit to find Jags Wonderland and The Book of Knots which are related products and I think still free.
Personally, I don't rate TRoS but Imperator who also posts here has had much better experiences of it and may be worth checking out on that, it's place as an indie darling though has rather been usurped by The Burning Wheel.
The PIG and Flyingmice games are of high quality, too many to easily recommend one in particular but browse their sites and if something seems interesting to you the execution will generally be worth your money.
Sorceror I would not personally recommend, not because it suxxors or anything but because to get the best from it you have to read 800 or so Forge threads and it desperately needs a new edition with better advice on how to run it IMO.
Dogs in the Vineyard and My Life with Master are also both worth checking out on the thematic front.
For Forge games:
Burning Empires- Worth it for the World & Tech Burning sections alone
Conspiracy of Shadow-- is what it sounds like.
For other Small Press
You can't go wrong with any of Flying Mice's games ( I highly recommend In Harms Way)
Same for Politcally Incorrect Games, my favorite is Hard Nova II ( I have a review of it in the reviews section), I also like Runestryders (will be posting a review in the next day or two).
Hinterwelt- Roma Imperious is the Definitive Roman alternate history/fantasy game out IMO. Nebuleon is one of the best Sci-FI games around.
I`m just getting back into roleplaying, so I don`t have the breadth of experience the others do. But I do like one recent product I picked up: _Spirit of the Century_ by Evil Hat Productions. It`s a pulp-fiction game set in a slightly alternate version of the 1920`s. The background is thin, although not much more than the plots of the source material. I like it mainly for the system--Fate--which is an updated version of a free rpg system of the same name developed by the authors. It`s Fudge with some narrative-control mechanics added in.
It`s currently in pre-order for the books, but will shift to PDF-only option in a month or so.
Quote from: BalbinusFor small press, I would recommend Jags Wonderland, excellent even if you are not into the Jags ruleset itself http://www.jagsrpg.org/ you need to scroll down the page a bit to find Jags Wonderland and The Book of Knots which are related products and I think still free.
Personally, I don't rate TRoS but Imperator who also posts here has had much better experiences of it and may be worth checking out on that, it's place as an indie darling though has rather been usurped by The Burning Wheel.
The PIG and Flyingmice games are of high quality, too many to easily recommend one in particular but browse their sites and if something seems interesting to you the execution will generally be worth your money.
Thanks, Max! :D
TROS - and Burning Wheel - were games developed outside the Forge but adopted in. They therefore can feel less "Forgey" - or perhaps I should say they can be approached in a different manner than the Forge gamers do - and still be appreciated. This is called "Difting" in Forge-speak. Generally Forge-influenced games tend to be locked down mechanically on how you approach them.
Other Small Press games I can really recommend are Hearts and Souls by Tim Kirk, Truth and Justice by Chad Underkoffer - which are the only games that ever made me want to play supers, Conspiracy of Shadows by Keith
Senkowsky, and JAGS C-13, Have-Not, Wonderland, and The Book of Knots by Marco Chacon, who is without peer at building settings. All of the JAGS settings are free downloads, Wonderland and Book of Knots are also available for pay as books and as pdfs with better resolution and marvellous covers.
-clash
Quote from: BagpussOkay so if I was going to buy and Indie Game, which one(s) would folks recommend and why?
D&D, the original Indie game. Alternately, GURPS, which is still an "indie game".
RPGPundit
Quote from: RPGPunditD&D, the original Indie game. Alternately, GURPS, which is still an "indie game".
RPGPundit
As is Rifts, but somehow I don't think that's what the OP had in mind. :D
-clash
I bought In Harm's Way late this afternoon and can confirm that it is pretty spiffing. The research is all there too, even if the game does sound like a Coast Guard RPG ;-)
Quote from: RPGPunditD&D, the original Indie game. Alternately, GURPS, which is still an "indie game".
RPGPundit
Don't turn this into another debate of what "Indie" means, the board seems to have a working defnition handy.
Quote from: Mr. AnalyticalI bought In Harm's Way late this afternoon and can confirm that it is pretty spiffing. The research is all there too, even if the game does sound like a Coast Guard RPG ;-)
Thank you, Mr. Analytical! As my son Klaxon said to me after I told him I had just ordered about $150 worth of books from Amazon "for research," "Research, hell! You might fool the IRS but your not fooling me. That's just your brain candy!"
Which is true - I ate that stuff up, fiction and non-fiction, since my first readings of Hornblower and Marryat when I was about eight or nine. The bibliography is the tip of the iceberg. :D
The name comes from a quote by John Paul Jones - "I wish to have no connection with any ship that does not sail fast, for I intend to go in harm's way." - which just about sums up what the game is all about.
Enjoy!
-clash
Yeah, I recognised the quote. I did a PhD in War Studies and one of the areas the department was big in was naval history and I sat in on some lectures.
For some reason I thought that the US coast guards had "To boldly go in harm's way" as their motto but apparently it's semper paratus sao I have NO idea where that came from.
Good work though, it's everything you could possibly want from a book on that topic.
Thanks! I appreciate your taking the time to tell me. :D
-clash
Quote from: McrowFor Forge games:
Burning Empires- Worth it for the World & Tech Burning sections alone
Conspiracy of Shadow-- is what it sounds like.
For other Small Press
You can't go wrong with any of Flying Mice's games ( I highly recommend In Harms Way)
Same for Politcally Incorrect Games, my favorite is Hard Nova II ( I have a review of it in the reviews section), I also like Runestryders (will be posting a review in the next day or two).
Hinterwelt- Roma Imperious is the Definitive Roman alternate history/fantasy game out IMO. Nebuleon is one of the best Sci-FI games around.
Thanks for the mention both Mike and Clash. PIG games has some of the nicest layout I have seen in small press while I really love Clash's game concepts. I have a weakness for alternate history and sci-fi and Clash does a good job of combining them.
Bill
Quote from: Mr. AnalyticalGood work though, it's everything you could possibly want from a book on that topic.
Very true. I would say more about IHW, but then I would sound like a fanboy...and that's never a good thing :D
Regards,
David R
Thank you, David! That means a lot to me!
:D
-clash
I recommend The Collectors: The Burning House from Rogue Publishing.
Link. (http://www.roguepublishing.com/cgi-bin/viewbook.cgi?value=p7113)
Definitely the most underrated game of the decade so far, in my opinion. It is that well-crafted.
The PCs are Collectors, demons in human form charged with collecting damned souls previously pledged by contract to the Man Downstairs.
They're not bad guys, neccessarily. Quite the opposite, in fact. They just have a job to do, and this is one job where you don't want to get "fired." :)
Add in rogue Collectors, opposing angels and rebellious clients and you get the idea.
Basically, I feel that this is the single best horror RPG product since the Delta Green line petered-out. Just magnificently-written and thought-out modern "you're the monsters" horror without the clunky system, dull edge or tired angst of White Wolf.
The sample adventure in the book is extremely detailed and also extremey flexible, demonstrating a keen understanding that "No scenario survives first contact with the players."
And it's cheap.
Just fucking get it. If you still need more persuading, just read the two reviews listed on the page I linked.
Quote from: YamoJust fucking get it. If you still need more persuading, just read the two reviews listed on the page I linked.
I'd second Yamo on this, it is indeed brilliant and not well known at all.
A caution though, it is designed for two players in addition to the GM and larger groups might not work so well.
Maybe I should have mentioned our group has 7 people (including me), each of us GM's at one time or another.
All the suggestions given until now are the coolest. You can't go wrong with PIG Games stuff (I own Active Exploits and rocks my world), and Burning Wheel, Sorcerer and Dogs in the Vineyard, along with The Shadow of Yesterday are a must. Can't say anything about Flyingmice, having tested his games yet.
About The Riddle of Steel: is a fantasy game with a very crunchy combat system, that I dig a lot. It also makes the goals and emotions of the PCs important in the mechanics in a way that blew my mind when I read it, teh same way that the personality mechanics of Pendragon rocked my socks off many years ago. If you don't mind a crunchy combat system, is one of the best fantasy games around.
Quote from: ImperatorAbout The Riddle of Steel: is a fantasy game with a very crunchy combat system, that I dig a lot. It also makes the goals and emotions of the PCs important in the mechanics in a way that blew my mind when I read it, teh same way that the personality mechanics of Pendragon rocked my socks off many years ago. If you don't mind a crunchy combat system, is one of the best fantasy games around.
Yeah, but it desparately needs a new edition. The general layout of the core books is okay, but the tables look like someone defecated them on paper and the typography is straight out of Word...
In addition, both the Companion and The Flower Of Battle modify some core systems quite heavily, so there's not much of the core book left untouched. Quite a nightmare of cross-references and post-its.
And if they ever print a new revision, they could clean up on the Forge-speak and Historical Realism. (And replace sorcery and the default world. But that's more a matter of taste.)
My recommendations. (http://www.therpgsite.com/node/346) :) Any of those companies will do right by you.