Once again the wheel turns, with anticipation and "good intentions"

I think T&T has gone and "acquired" a disease, give it a good decade or less.

Official Link: https://rebellionunplugged.com/rebellion-acquires-trailblazing-tunnels-trolls-rpg/

Edit: Remember how Space Truckers 1996 ended? I remember how Space Truckers 1996 ended.

There were some doubts about the previous owner and it's probably for the best.  I'm not really familiar with Rebellion but if they'll let the fans create stuff it's a step in the right direction.

Quote from: David Johansen on May 10, 2023, 02:21:12 PM
There were some doubts about the previous owner and it's probably for the best.  I'm not really familiar with Rebellion but if they'll let the fans create stuff it's a step in the right direction.

Trojan. Horse.

As my incomplete understanding goes, D&D used to belong to Gygax solely and he strictly made sure his IP was his, later on it changed hands to WoTc (A company instead of an individual, CEO's/ideals/vision/leadership changing regularly as it does) and they introduced OGL and a few good albeit different editions compared to what Gygax made, it was a great time with meadows and butterflies.

Jump to the present, WoTc tries to reign in the OGL with 1.1 and putting ideological messages in their recent products (And editing the content of their older products with said ideologies) to stifle the creative output of the readers of WoTc's products, then ends up putting the SRD in Creative Commons which I think is a weaker license law-wise that with WoTc's legal team can maybe still bite through.

The folks (And maybe even the management) who made the original OGL and those few good editions didn't do it with the intention of ham-stringing it all a few decades later; and the possibility of future management doing the ham-stringing probably didn't even skirt the thoughts of those folk either.

An IP changing hands opens the possibility to things the original-creator/team never wanted to happen for better or for worse, I see the worse happening is more likely than the better happening, and if there is anything good happening/to-happen it'll be outweighed by the bad; whether it happens now or decades into the future.

Edit: Everything after trojan horse

T&T was done a few years back when St. Andre decided to retroactively rename some spells from 40 years ago because someone might "get offended". I remember this specifically because some fucktard troll (LOL) from this very board tried to stir shit when I asked about it in the comments of the drivethrurpg page. They posted a bunch of crap insinuating stuff about me simply because I asked a direct question. Reported me to the admins, etc.

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/130768/Tunnels--Trolls-1st-Edition-reprint

Name redacted now, obviously, because these Marxist shills cannot stand it when someone doesn't put up with their bullshit. I DIGRESS, but I still think T&T was over with. I own all print editions from 4th to the Deluxe, and have every PDF ever released for the game, but at this point it's done. Much like D&D is done due to WotC being retards, T&T is in the same boat at this point. It's a fun, easy, whimsical game, now tainted by pure horseshit "modern sensibility" and that sucks ass.

Quote from: Brad on May 10, 2023, 02:47:46 PM
T&T was done a few years back when St. Andre decided to retroactively rename some spells from 40 years ago because someone might "get offended". I remember this specifically because some fucktard troll (LOL) from this very board tried to stir shit when I asked about it in the comments of the drivethrurpg page. They posted a bunch of crap insinuating stuff about me simply because I asked a direct question. Reported me to the admins, etc.

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/130768/Tunnels--Trolls-1st-Edition-reprint

Name redacted now, obviously, because these Marxist shills cannot stand it when someone doesn't put up with their bullshit. I DIGRESS, but I still think T&T was over with. I own all print editions from 4th to the Deluxe, and have every PDF ever released for the game, but at this point it's done. Much like D&D is done due to WotC being retards, T&T is in the same boat at this point. It's a fun, easy, whimsical game, now tainted by pure horseshit "modern sensibility" and that sucks ass.

My point exactly! It's done, it's finished, everything the original team wanted to do with it, it's done! Magnum Opus'd or whatever!
Reviving T&T is kicking a dead horse or turning it into something totally different to the original vision for the sake of it (Or profit or ideological proliferation etc etc)!

Rebellion Unpluged is the board game company owned by Rebellion Games, the video game company.

I have one of their board games based on their video game "Sniper Elite" and its quite a good game.

So I think things will be fine.

Anyone know how much i can buy out Judges guild for? Asking for a friend.

Quote from: Brad on May 10, 2023, 02:47:46 PM
Name redacted now, obviously, because these Marxist shills cannot stand it when someone doesn't put up with their bullshit. I DIGRESS, but I still think T&T was over with.

Ocule has them in the woke TTRPG google docs sheet as green.  They aren't the only thing in there that, while green, has made a few gestures to the dominant ideology, but if renaming a few spells out of an abundance of cuckoldry is the worst they've done, they probably still are at green on a green/yellow/red system.

Their purchasers, however, don't appear on that list at all.  Is there a reason we expect them to be substantially worse or better than the old boss?  Well, really just worse- nothing ever gets better after it has rolled in this stuff, decay tends to be a one-way street.

I don't think renaming a spell called "Yessa Massa" makes anyone overly woke or whatever. I also don't think it means there was hate or racism behind it. It just isn't funny, or relevant, in a fantasy world.

And Brad that profile pic you had before was iconic. It gave a certain amount of 'extra thumb in the eye' to your posts. Loved it.

Quote from: FingerRod on May 10, 2023, 04:44:13 PM
I don't think renaming a spell called "Yessa Massa" makes anyone overly woke or whatever. I also don't think it means there was hate or racism behind it. It just isn't funny, or relevant, in a fantasy world.

And Brad that profile pic you had before was iconic. It gave a certain amount of 'extra thumb in the eye' to your posts. Loved it.

Yeah, I don't either, honestly. And my question was legitimately asking WHY he felt the need to do it just to avoid being harangued by the outrage police. The fact of whether or not it's relevant to a fantasy world is pretty much a moot question since the entirety of T&T is based on stupid jokes. It fit with the game.

RE: avatar, point taken...

Quote from: Brad on May 10, 2023, 05:54:16 PM

Quote from: FingerRod on May 10, 2023, 04:44:13 PM
I don't think renaming a spell called "Yessa Massa" makes anyone overly woke or whatever. I also don't think it means there was hate or racism behind it. It just isn't funny, or relevant, in a fantasy world.

And Brad that profile pic you had before was iconic. It gave a certain amount of 'extra thumb in the eye' to your posts. Loved it.

Yeah, I don't either, honestly. And my question was legitimately asking WHY he felt the need to do it just to avoid being harangued by the outrage police. The fact of whether or not it's relevant to a fantasy world is pretty much a moot question since the entirety of T&T is based on stupid jokes. It fit with the game.

RE: avatar, point taken...

Agreed...it was a complete overreaction and good call out on the deleted account.

RE avatar: yassssss!

Quote from: GiantToenail on May 10, 2023, 03:15:49 PM
My point exactly! It's done, it's finished, everything the original team wanted to do with it, it's done! Magnum Opus'd or whatever!
Reviving T&T is kicking a dead horse or turning it into something totally different to the original vision for the sake of it (Or profit or ideological proliferation etc etc)!

You're right!  You probably won't even be able to screw an old lady, win a big breasted sex slave, or get turned to stone by your medusa lover in City of Terrors anymore!  Was it Beyond the Silvered pane where your sorcerous lover gives you invisible leather armour and an ass tatoo of their name?

I don't know.  I guess it depends on whether you see stuff like that as juvenile and crass or sophisticated and outre.

To my mind there will always be a place and market for things that some would consider in bad taste.  I guess the question is whether Rebellion intends to be associated with it and targeted by the outrage brigade or make a stand for teenage boys everywhere.

Quote from: GiantToenail on May 10, 2023, 02:35:20 PM

Quote from: David Johansen on May 10, 2023, 02:21:12 PM
There were some doubts about the previous owner and it's probably for the best.  I'm not really familiar with Rebellion but if they'll let the fans create stuff it's a step in the right direction.

Trojan. Horse.

As my incomplete understanding goes, D&D used to belong to Gygax solely and he strictly made sure his IP was his, later on it changed hands to WoTc (A company instead of an individual, CEO's/ideals/vision/leadership changing regularly as it does) and they introduced OGL and a few good albeit different editions compared to what Gygax made, it was a great time with meadows and butterflies.

I agree with the general premise of this comment, but for the sake of historical completeness, Gygax was not the sole owner of the D&D IP, except arguably prior to it's publication. D&D was originally published by TSR Hobbies, a partnership and later a corporation, of which Gygax was a part owner. Gygax had left TSR (most people would say he was forced out), long before WOTC bought them out. As I understand it, he had no involvement in D&D after the 1st edition of AD&D, and TSR even wound up suing him on the claim that one of his later games was too similar to D&D.

Again, this doesn't contradict your point. Just moves the timeline back by about a decade.

Quote from: David Johansen on May 10, 2023, 07:50:09 PM

Quote from: GiantToenail on May 10, 2023, 03:15:49 PM
My point exactly! It's done, it's finished, everything the original team wanted to do with it, it's done! Magnum Opus'd or whatever!
Reviving T&T is kicking a dead horse or turning it into something totally different to the original vision for the sake of it (Or profit or ideological proliferation etc etc)!

You're right!  You probably won't even be able to screw an old lady, win a big breasted sex slave, or get turned to stone by your medusa lover in City of Terrors anymore!  Was it Beyond the Silvered pane where your sorcerous lover gives you invisible leather armour and an ass tatoo of their name?

I don't know.  I guess it depends on whether you see stuff like that as juvenile and crass or sophisticated and outre.

To my mind there will always be a place and market for things that some would consider in bad taste.  I guess the question is whether Rebellion intends to be associated with it and targeted by the outrage brigade or make a stand for teenage boys everywhere.

The straw you're stuffing in my coat is getting itchy.

You disagree/find-it-in-bad-taste the game is how it is, which is good; you formed your own thoughts.

When it changes to the point where none of those things are the case, the opportunity to enjoy the humor or conversely look at it as an inferior product to what you enjoy reading vanishes, and that's the kicker; Especially to folks who don't have the frame of reference of reading older products or knowing the major-ttrpg-publisher scene was different than how some of them are turning now, non-stop seriousness about lore, retcons, safety-tools, X-cards and telling you how to play your game at your table instead of humor/whimsy/creativity.

The question is whether Rebellion will find some of T&T's back catalog in bad taste or act out of fear that the outrage brigade will target their other products if they don't "clean up" Tunnels and Trolls.

I'm afraid my tastes don't figure into it.

As I said, there's always a place in the market for that kind of thing.  I certainly wasn't complaining when I was 14.

To my mind the problem is how it reflects on the publisher in the current heated market and how the publisher has behaved in the past.