Quote from: Ghost Whistler;512786I don't think that was a statement of goodbye: they have The Void coming out soon.

I agree. Burning Horizons is due in April.

it was just that their publishing partner gave them a big kick in the balls that needed explanation.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;512026console gaming will soon stop competing (if it ever did) with pen and paper gaming: already the xbox has become a coprorate shitfest more interested in selling lovefilm subscriptions and DLC while the average player is more content to sit and play Call of Duty as opposed to an rpg. These people are not rpg players and the console is really going to end up just selling those kinds of games. At least in the west.

Then Skyrim comes out and nukes all these pre-conceptions into next time zone.

The first time I heard that string of whines ("kids don't read and want videogames, we are getting old, the West is doomed...) was in 1985. Then Dragonlance and Dylan Dog (the Italian comic book) were published and blew anything out of the water.

So the whiners retreated, regrouped, an restarted their litany ("blah blah... kids don't read... blah blah... videogames...) around 2000 - just in time for D&D 3E and W.I.T.C.H. (the comic book by Disney) to be published and blow anything out of the water. In 2001 W.I.T.C.H. sold one million copies in Italy alone.

We are now in 2012 and it is about time for the litany to begin again ("blah blah... kids don't read... blah blah... we are all old farts, blah blah, videogames...)

The truth? Put out shitty products and people will punish you. Say what you want about Call of Duty, but it does what it purposes to do exceptionally well - as does Skyrim. Say what you want about 4E, but it does what it purposes to do exceptionally bad. Start working on that before feeling entitled to whine.

Yes Skyrim proved popular, but I suspect that's eclipsed by the popularity of CoD. I don't really see the sort of people that want to play competitive online shooters (which is really what the xbox is about) or football games are the sort of people that would buy rpg's. Inevitably there's a crossover, but where the xbox is headed is not the place rpg's can or should follow. Just look at the recent xbox dashboard update, it's a horrendous melange of dysfunction and corporate application via further subscription shit. The only thing that might have been relevant was the proposed avatar animated chat room where people could potentially have gathered to play a game (though they would still have had to negotiate their cartoony avatars).

Quote from: Reckall;512866So the whiners retreated, regrouped, an restarted their litany ("blah blah... kids don't read... blah blah... videogames...) around 2000 - just in time for D&D 3E and W.I.T.C.H. (the comic book by Disney) to be published and blow anything out of the water. In 2001 W.I.T.C.H. sold one million copies in Italy alone.

Wasn't there a book about wizards at some point, too? Dominated kid pop culture for much of the last decade, and will almost certainly go into the canon of "quality works for kids".

I've got some W.I.T.C.H. books, and really liked them.

Like Pundit already mentioned (here or elsewhere, I forget), young adult literature is arguably more popular than ever.

Has anyone complaining about "kids these days who don't read" actually been to a book store in the last decade? It's almost nothing but YA stuff. Wizards, vampires, werewolves, witches, kids hunting other kids, manga... it goes on and on and on.

Every time I go anywhere near a book store there's always several customers in the 10-17 range looking for books.  And not just the latest installment in whatever series they already are reading, they are often asking the salesperson about something new to read similar to the stuff they already like.

Or try looking online. My goodness, has anyone complaining seen the metric ton of HP or other fanfic out there? Kids aren't just reading, they are writing their own short stories and novellas.


RPGs not attracting kids has nothing to do with them not reading, because they totally are. RPGs aren't attracting kids because they don't even bother to try (especially the potentially quite large young female market, which is almost never marketed to in the industry).

Honestly, I'm amazed not one major RPG company even bothered to try to capitalize on the success of things like Harry Potter, Twilight, Hunger Games, Vampire Diaries, Secret Circle, etc.

The industry used to do stuff like that. It used to experiment with new game lines and try different things and appeal to kids.  Now it seems to be largely an industry of old men building products for other old men.

Hell, even the TV show "Dallas" got an RPG...

The least they can do is try for untapped markets again. (Though I guess Supernatural, Smallville, and Buffy do count for something.)

Quote from: jgants;512916RPGs not attracting kids has nothing to do with them not reading, because they totally are. RPGs aren't attracting kids because they don't even bother to try (especially the potentially quite large young female market, which is almost never marketed to in the industry).

My prediction: If D&D were made available in a single box format for $50 or less, the RPG industry would see a massive boom within 5 years.

And I mean "the whole game", not some pay-to-preview crap.

The #1 biggest problem facing the RPG industry today is that the gateway game hasn't been available for less than $100 in over a decade. (The 400+ pages of rules necessary to play is also problematic.)

Exactly!  One box with everything you need to play for years and years.  No more crippleware.  Heck you could even use pogs instead of minis to keep the price down to maybe $30.

Also, buy Otherworld minis and make them the official D&D miniatures line already you dopes!

Quote from: David Johansen;512961Exactly!  One box with everything you need to play for years and years.  No more crippleware.  Heck you could even use pogs instead of minis to keep the price down to maybe $30.

Also, buy Otherworld minis and make them the official D&D miniatures line already you dopes!

Heck at this point I would settle for 1 phb, 1 dmg, and some monster manuals. Things like phb II infuriate me.

PHB II? Try PHB IV...

Yes, the problem is the whole concept of endlessly producing new "splatbooks" and complexifying the system, then going for the new edition.

An evergreen set is the way to go.

RPGPundit

Quote from: Justin Alexander;512960The #1 biggest problem facing the RPG industry today is that the gateway game hasn't been available for less than $100 in over a decade. (The 400+ pages of rules necessary to play is also problematic.)

If I were WOTC, I'd reprint B/X in one volume -- one ~128 book with all the rules needed to run a game and I'd sell it as cheaply as I could and not lose money. Call it D&D Classic. It's simple enough to be learned from the book and teach friends but interesting enough to play for years while serving as a gateway to more complex versions at the same time.

Quote from: David Johansen;512961Exactly!  One box with everything you need to play for years and years.  No more crippleware.  Heck you could even use pogs instead of minis to keep the price down to maybe $30.

Also, buy Otherworld minis and make them the official D&D miniatures line already you dopes!

Fuck minis, pogs, and all that bullshit. Just makes D&D like another board game on the shelf.

The selling point of the Red Box was "This game requires no gameboard because the action takes place in the player's imagination.(quote from cover of Red Box).

Fuck. Talk about missing the entire point of D&D.

Cardboard cut - outs "miniatures" are Warhammer 3e's only redeeming grace, so I think they are actually cool and a more then welcome cheap alternative to minis.

You know, I love minis but half the time I'll lug cases of them to a session and never get them out.  I like to have them when they matter but a lot of the time they don't.

The only reason I want minis in the box is to give it toy value which I believe will improve sales.  But yeah, most of the time you don't really need them and sometimes they're just a distraction.

Also, never use cars with pull back motors as props.  If the players discover them your game is dead for the evening.

I've never cared for using minis.

RPGPundit