So as an extension of the military obsessed players thread, let me pose to you the question of realism obsessed players and how much of a problem they are.

 Do players who are frequently bringing up issues of realism bother you? In my case if it's valid and a good counter to "hollywood realism" then it's not a problem.

An example is the exploding car myth. For decades hollywood has convinced people that cars explode in crashes, when going off a cliff, when shot in the gas tank, etc.

It's pretty much established now that cars don't actually explode under most, if any, conditions. So I don't have a problem with a player saying a car shouldn't explode, just burn real good.

Likewise, bullets tend to be made of softer metals, and don't spark when deflecting off stone, metal, etc. I have no problem with people pointing out a bullet shouldn't spark off something.

 Now when someone smugly has to tell me that a jump drive in traveller can't work because of relativity, and point that out every time you go to jump, I start getting pissed.

Rule 0: Don't play with assholes.

Quote from: Phantom Black;397821Rule 0: Don't play with assholes.

This.

Plus, I only want realism as it applies to what we're trying to do.

Since I never run hyper-gritty-realistic games, I see no reason to be super realistic when we play.

Does exposing  holes in the plot count obessing over realism?

I really don't have a problem with bad science or dodgy history, but I have been known have had a few "Hey, wait a sec.." moments mid game to catch obvious flaws in the GM's plot. It's not something I am proud about, I GM enough to know that when thinking on your feet you can't always make the right call but drawing attnetion to it doesn't reallly help anyone.

Quote from: Phantom Black;397821Rule 0: Don't play with assholes.

Well, in all fairness I don't think it's right to call someone an asshole if they just point out a car shouldn't explode in most conditions.


If the gm NEEDS a car to explode, he can shoot it with a grenade.

As to people who constantly go on abbout FTL and artificial gravity being impossible, you may have a point.

In my experience, being overly concerned with realism is often just a smokescreen for trying to control the game. It becomes another form of rules lawyering, using the "rules" of the universe as we know it instead of the game rules. It's a means of asserting dominance.

Not always, mind you, but I'll just say I've never heard a player complain about how something is unrealistic when things are unrealistic in their favor.

Any game with an action movie theme, I'd expect Hollywood physics to apply. A game so "realistic" that I can't be an action hero... I wouldn't really want to play, personally. But those ground rules should be laid out up front, in detail and then accepted with good grace, not brought up piecemeal when a player wants to whine about a botched die roll or GM caveat.

/slightly bitter from experience

In all my games, the most common element in the universe is Explodium.

Cars burn?  Lame.  Cars are grenades with wheels!

What's next?  Lasers that don't make sounds?

I think the real issue here is not "realism" but internal consistency, genre emulation, the nature of the faux reality in the game being played. It also deals with personal suspension of disbelief tolerance levels, which are connected almost linearly to how wise/ignorant you are about any given subject matter (guns, medieval weaponry, biology, etc).

The (sadly) common failure in gaming groups of making clear exactly what these things are in their particular game, specially when, more often than not, different people demand each in different quantities and qualities for their gaming satisfaction, is the root cause for much of the acrimony exposed here and in the "military obsession" thread.

Quote from: Edsan;397848I think the real issue here is not "realism" but internal consistency, genre emulation, the nature of the faux reality in the game being played. It also deals with personal suspension of disbelief tolerance levels, which are connected almost linearly to how wise/ignorant you are about any given subject matter (guns, medieval weaponry, biology, etc).

The (sadly) common failure in gaming groups of making clear exactly what these things are in their particular game, specially when, more often than not, different people demand each in different quantities and qualities for their gaming satisfaction, is the root cause for much of the acrimony exposed here and in the "military obsession" thread.

Damn good reply, I'd karma you if I could.

Goes to the heart of the matter: The Gm and players need to agree on the setting criteria and understand it.

Quote from: Spinachcat;397839In all my games, the most common element in the universe is Explodium.

Cars burn?  Lame.  Cars are grenades with wheels!

What's next?  Lasers that don't make sounds?

What? no one ever demands a silence for his laser sniper rifle? What kind of jackoffs do you game with?

Now that I know how silencers really work, every time I see them used on TV or in a game in a "stealth" scenario, I cringe a little.  Same thing with the way movies use "hacking", the internet, and computers, since I'm a tech geek.

Depends entirely on how the game handles these elements, though.  How many concessions have been made, how those concessions are incorporated into play, etc.  If I don't like the way they're handled, I just don't play the game.

I certainly wouldn't take it out on the GM in a passive-aggressive manner, though, since I agreed to play the game in the first place.

Quote from: Tommy Brownell;397822Since I never run hyper-gritty-realistic games, I see no reason to be super realistic when we play.

This.

I never run super realistic games, since I don't play any games with particularly realistic rules, and frankly don't know enough about gunfights/dismantling A-bombs/car chases to actually give them a true realistic feel.

Luckily I never had any of my players requesting more/complaining about the lack of  realism.

Quote from: Cylonophile;397855What? no one ever demands a silence for his laser sniper rifle? What kind of jackoffs do you game with?

I had a guy in a Classic Traveller game demand to have a silencer for his shotgun. I told him it wouldn't work, then showed him the rules section where it pointed out the weapons which could be silenced. The Player bought a silencer anyways and had his PC weld it on to the barrel of his shotgun.

First time he used it, his barrel exploded.

And I was accused of trying to kill his character.

cie la vie

Quote from: Phantom Black;397821Rule 0: Don't play with assholes.

This should even be written in corebooks.

Quote from: jeff37923;397861I had a guy in a Classic Traveller game demand to have a silencer for his shotgun. I told him it wouldn't work, then showed him the rules section where it pointed out the weapons which could be silenced. The Player bought a silencer anyways and had his PC weld it on to the barrel of his shotgun.

First time he used it, his barrel exploded.

And I was accused of trying to kill his character.

cie la vie

Now that is a situation where the player clearly acted stupid. I'd maim that PC without giving it a second thought.