Quote from: Benoist;364533We're not robots. We can't just compare Olive's experience to someone else with the kids etc and not gaming and saying "well, the latter obviously doesn't have his shit together". Wrong.

This is totally true - apart from anything else my wife tends to make me have gaming night for the very reasons (getting my shit together/having a release) that you mention.

We absolutely can have a ranking of people according to how much they have their shit together. Some do, and some don't, and some sort of do and sometimes don't. It's foolish to pretend otherwise.

Olive's just lucky that he has a sensible wife who helps him keep his shit together

Sure, we shouldn't be too quick to judge. But we can draw some obvious conclusions. For example, one guy I know said, "I don't have time to game weekly anymore."
"No? Why not?"
"Well, I have a daughter now."
"Fair enough. So every night at home?"
"No, I took up volleyball again, that's two nights a week."

So it wasn't that he didn't have time to game because "real life" got in the way, simply that he only had time for one hobby, and gaming wasn't it anymore. He was able to make two nights a week free - they could have been gaming, volleyball, anything at all. He didn't choose gaming.

Again, everyone has the right to whatever priorities they see fit. But we should be sceptical when people say, "but I don't have time..."

I mean let's be honest, most people don't sit down and plan out their week to make best use of time for work, home life and hobbies. Most just drift along, and if you write down what you're doing in each waking hour, an awful lot of hours are spent just fucking around, watching some tv show that bores you, surfing the net, whatever.

OK. I think there's a disconnect here between the claim that people who don't game "don't have their shit together", and the idea that when people say they "can't play", that's in fact because they're making the choice, conscious or unconscious, to not play.

I disagree with the former, not the latter.

In other words, I agree that people who say "I can't" actually "choose" to not game in favor of, well, some other priority, or because they just like to dick around instead of playing an RPG.

What I disagree with is the notion that people who don't game "don't have their shit together". Not necessarily. That's just plain wrong, because some priorities, indeed many priorities, may take precedence over gaming.

How about:
"I don't have time to game weekly anymore."
"No? Why not?"
"Well, I have a daughter now. And my wife left me for the dickhole from the car rental. I'm alone with her now."
"Fair enough. So every night at home?"
"Yeah. Pretty much."

Or:
"I don't have time to game weekly anymore."
"No? Why not?"
"Well, I have a daughter now. I'm working night shifts at the hospital. My wife's working as an accountant. Thing is, we only have our week ends to be together with the girl. See what I mean?"
"Fair enough. So no gaming for now?"
"Yeah. Pretty much."

I could make up a bunch of other scenarios if you want.

There are an infinite number of scenarios you could make up, but you're not GMing right now, so I think it best to keep it to real situations that have actually happened to you or someone you know.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;364784There are an infinite number of scenarios you could make up, but you're not GMing right now, so I think it best to keep it to real situations that have actually happened to you or someone you know.

Sure.

How about:
"I don't have time to game weekly anymore."
"No? Why not?"
"Well, I am the co-owner of a computer store, and it's not doing so well lately. If it tanks, I go bankrupt. I work 12 hours a day as a result. I only get Sundays off, and that's the day I get to see my dad and be with the family."
"Fair enough. So every night at home?"
"Yeah. Pretty much."

That's an actual scenario that's happening right now to a friend of mine.

You don't know everybody's particular situation, Kyle. It's foolish to pretend otherwise.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;364784There are an infinite number of scenarios you could make up, but you're not GMing right now, so I think it best to keep it to real situations that have actually happened to you or someone you know.

Ad hominem much?

You're not by any stretch suggesting Benoist's scenarios are impossible, are you?

Another one?

"I don't have time to game weekly anymore."
"No? Why not?"
"Well, my mother is mentally retarded, and I'm her sole guardian. She is in the hospital with little hope right now, and I work a full-time job. I'm going to see her every chance I get. Until... you know. She dies."
"Fair enough. So no gaming for now?"
"Yeah. Pretty much."

This one happened to another friend of mine a few years back. It took a few months for his mom to pass.

So again. Sometimes, not gaming *is* having your shit together.

Well, undoubtedly, children and significant others (who don't RPG with you) can get in the way of gaming.  I'm married and have two small children.  I no longer game on the weekend- all weekend long- like in the ye olden days of my youth.  I play in a face-to-face group that meets biweekly on week night from 7-11 p.m.  This works well with the family lifestyle since I can still make and eat dinner with my family (I'm the cook in the house), and I am only really leaving my wife alone with the children for several hours before she puts them to bed.

My primary group plays online via MapTool/Skype every weekend.  They play every night/day of the weekend- Friday, Saturday, and Sunday.  I usually can only make one session on the weekends, which usually is Friday night.  We usually start late (around 9 p.m.) and so my kids are already in bed and my wife usually goes down early.  However, I know she would become resentful if I tried to play all weekend long with my friends like I used to do; especially if I left her to take care of the children alone all weekend while looking at the back of my head at the computer screen.

Sometimes having your shit together means not playing.

Sometimes it means getting done what needs to get done and gaming when you can.  

Drohem's response and comment on still gaming through the shifts and changes is really what 1/2 of this is conversation is about.  I have a few players who don't have their shit together, and it shows.  I know what Kyle is talking about, I am just aware that gaming is recreation (recreational therapy for many of us, but still recreation).  My litmus test is more in how well they manage their commintments to game.  I do have one or 2 gamers who email the day of or the night before the session and beg off, and to me, they are the ones who are having trouble putting it together.

I think its not unfair to say that if you're not gaming right now, its because you don't want to game badly enough.

RPGPundit

Quote from: jeff37923;363683So what real life things get in the way of your gaming?

Having two children.  After my first daughter was born, I continued to role-play but haven't played since the second daughter was born because the two of them, together, are just too much for my wife to wrangle on her own for a full Saturday.  Between the children and my job, I haven't been doing much else with my time other than watching television.  

That said, my wife has expressed some interest in letting me role-play again, probably once a month.  I've also been considering a "Friday game" (where a few of us take 4 Fridays off in a row to play a complete mini-campaign -- we've done that quite successfully three times in the past) and have also been toying with the idea of trying to role-play via Skype or some other online tool so we can also bring one of our friends living on the other side of the country back into playing.  So I expect to play again in the future.

Some of this goes back to what I said a while back before my own gaming ground to a halt.  If you want to game, make time for it.

Quote from: jeff37923;363683For Extra Credit, if you had more time and the opportunity to, would you choose to use that time and opp

• rtunity to do more gaming?

Yes, I think so.

Quote from: RPGPundit;365158I think its not unfair to say that if you're not gaming right now, its because you don't want to game badly enough.

I'm not gaming right now but I have to agree with this statement.  If I really needed to game, I could make some time for it.  Married people with children manage to get together to watch football games, join bowling leagues, hold barbecues, take classes and so on and the time investment of those things could be used for role-playing.  If it's your lowest priority, or lower than everything else that you spend time on, then who gave it that priority?

Quote from: John Morrow;365202I'm not gaming right now but I have to agree with this statement.  If I really needed to game, I could make some time for it.  Married people with children manage to get together to watch football games, join bowling leagues, hold barbecues, take classes and so on and the time investment of those things could be used for role-playing.  If it's your lowest priority, or lower than everything else that you spend time on, then who gave it that priority?

John,

 About three or four years ago there was a game group that used to stop by the store - all 4 to 6 of them are married, not all of them are gamers, some of the wives were/are.
They came up with a system of rotation where each game session a different mother (wife) would watch everybody's kiods. If the wife that week had a characterr in the campaign - then she would work out ahead of time with the DM why her character was absent or what her character was doing that night. They told me there was one house that was just roomy enough that the kids could be watched just a room or two away from where they played - those times the 'sitter' could trade off for a few minutes to do a few dice rolls and catch up on what was going on.

Of course ...they could have asked one of the husbands to watch the kids sometimes.....

As far as I know that group still gets together to play. It might take a little creativity and planning - but apparently Folks married with kids CAN game if they really want to.


- Ed C.

Quote from: RPGPundit;365158I think its not unfair to say that if you're not gaming right now, its because you don't want to game badly enough.

RPGPundit

And equally fair to say that in certain circumstances that's not a bad thing.

Quote from: Joshua Ford;365207And equally fair to say that in certain circumstances that's not a bad thing.

I also agree with this statement.