Quote from: The Shaman;363785Right now I'm in the midst of a mid-life career change, one that won't be complete for at least another eighteen months due to schooling and internships, in a job with a highly variable schedule. My ability to commit to a time and place to play a ftf game is pretty much nil at the moment, so I'm left with pbp as my only real option.

I know what you mean.  I went through a career change (ie.  no more dotbombs), and didn't really have much time to commit to anything outside of work.  By the time I was more established in a new career (at the time), I suddenly had a lot more free time on my hands where I got back into playing rpg games.

Quote from: The Shaman;363792Precisely the kind of answer I would expect from a personal trainer, but what makes up the "ordinary day-to-day life" of some people makes committing to a regular date and time problematic at best.

The thing is that I said it twenty years ago, long before I had any thought of being a PT. I think I first said it to some other soldier who said he wanted a girlfriend but "I've got no time." He had the exact same schedule as me with my girlfriend, only I was studying, too, and he spent a lot of nights drinking with his mates.

Obviously when people have an irregular work schedule they can't commit to a regular game group. But there are other things they can do. And that sort of thing usually does not last forever. But even if it does...

I knew a fireman once who gamed... with the other guys on his shift. He couldn't make a game happen with other people, so he made the people he worked with into gamers.

QuoteIt's very easy to say, "Make time for what's important to you," when you have regularly uncommitted blocks of time to choose from, but "ordinary lives" don't always work that way.

Yes, they do. If you want something badly enough, you find a way.

It is definitely harder for some people than for others. And so your circumstances test just how badly you want it. When my cooking had me work starting at 0600, it was pretty hard for me to stay up late gaming then go to work. But I did it.

But when I had shifts in the evening five days a week, I didn't game. I only had two nights a week for my girlfriend, I wasn't willing to give one up to game. Gaming wasn't that important to me. Probably I could have done something else, like recruited some other chefs to play in the middle of the night. But I couldn't be bothered. Gaming wasn't that important to me.

It's alright if other things are more important to you. No sin in that. Each person has to decide their own priorities and interests in life. But you can make things happen if you really want them to. People with much more difficult circumstances have done it.

It's alright if you won't. But it's rarely true to say you can't.

It's a pure question of priorities, IMO.
You can always find time to game, but if it affects other things in your life, then maybe you should refrain.

Sometimes, not gaming is part of having your shit together.

I think Kyle is right on here.

We make time for the things we want to do.

While real life can cut back on the amount of time that you have for hobbies, you can still make some time for the hobbies if you plan it out and make good use of the time that you have.

For me, that used to be once or twice a week.

Now it is two or three times a month. On occasion, it is once a month. But I get gaming time in because it is important to me and I can be a cranky bastard when I don't game for an extended period of time. I need to vent and gaming is my outlet.

Right now, I need to stop playing the damn 360 in the evening in order to work on an ORE game I want to plan. Proper allocation of free time will be required to do this.

Quote from: PaladinCA;364140Right now, I need to stop playing the damn 360 in the evening in order to work on an ORE game I want to plan. Proper allocation of free time will be required to do this.

If you feel like talking about this in a separate thread... I'm always curious about different takes and use of ORE.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;363865It's alright if you won't. But it's rarely true to say you can't.

Kyle, I'm not going to go point by point - well, other than to say that, unlike firefighters, ambulance crews actually work for a living - so I'll simply say I think that's a lot of feel-good bullshit.

I have a wife and two young children, workout every day, spent the last several months in school full-time, work part-time (soon to be full-time again), and so on and so forth. I know how to manage and apportion my time. I also know what it takes to run a game consistently, to commit to a gaming group, and I know that it doesn't work with the schedule I have now and that I'm not in a position to change that at present.

Quote from: The Shaman;364215I have a wife and two young children, workout every day, spent the last several months in school full-time, work part-time (soon to be full-time again), and so on and so forth. I know how to manage and apportion my time. I also know what it takes to run a game consistently, to commit to a gaming group, and I know that it doesn't work with the schedule I have now and that I'm not in a position to change that at present.

Sounds like your plate is very full. It also sounds like you have prioritized what is most important to you. Gaming certainly isn't a priority right now, compared to your other commitments.

While I don't have kids, I have a wife, full-time work, and college at night. I can't imagine what having kids would do to my schedule, not that kids are a bad thing by any means. At least you can grow your own gaming group in ten years or so.

Quote from: boulet;364172If you feel like talking about this in a separate thread... I'm always curious about different takes and use of ORE.

I'll do that.

Again, if you can find time to do X regularly, you can find time for Y.

Whether you choose X or Y just shows what your are priorities are. There is nothing morally wrong with choosing X over Y, or vice versa.

Just don't claim, "I can't" when in fact it's "I won't." It would be as stupid to say, "I can't game because I have to do a workout" as it is to say, "I can't do a workout because I have to game." You can, but choose not to.

And that's okay. It's okay that gaming isn't the first priority in your life - it certainly isn't in mine. Just don't turn into a Bitter Non-Gamer and write a misanthropic or anti-gamer rpg like My Life With Master or Violence because of it.

This is really just a subjective value judgment, but to me "real life" means family, friends, career and school (subclass of career) in that order...and I'd be willing to bet that there's not a man jack of us that doesn't plan his gaming nights around at least one of these things.

Hell, there's not a man jack of us that wouldn't give up his/her gaming night in a heartbeat if it came down to this or the other.

So, yeah. Real life gets in the way of gaming. Even for a pathologically single tech industry node like me.

Turns out that while gaming may be a decent escape from everyday life, it's certainly no substitute.

I dunno' man. Kids are a game changer esp if only one parent games. Then you got gamer parents who are GMs who have to plan games and stuff. I know some gamers who manage to game with kids and I know some who give up the hobby.

Regards,
David R

Quote from: Benoist;363867It's a pure question of priorities, IMO.
You can always find time to game, but if it affects other things in your life, then maybe you should refrain.

Sometimes, not gaming is part of having your shit together.

Yes.
Not what we want to always admit, in a game-related site, that as our lives go on, work, children, providing for said family, parents, and education can take priority over the mental health benfits and relaxation of gaming.

 I am also going to add in the fact that as our players or fellow gamers go through the same thing, the scheduling can be even more difficult.


 And yes, David, Kids are a game changer.  Not that Kyle is wrong that it is all prioritizing, but for myself and my players (especially my Miston group -where everyone, including myself has kids) the childrearing stuff is huge. Scheduling ahead of time and not stressing when someone can't make it is a reality.

Quote from: David R;364262I dunno' man. Kids are a game changer esp if only one parent games. Then you got gamer parents who are GMs who have to plan games and stuff. I know some gamers who manage to game with kids and I know some who give up the hobby.

I'm with Kyle on this, but I also know that being a dad has played havoc with my ability to be a GM. It's combined with work, but I don't have the mental energy to spend on coming up with scenarios etc any more. It also has played havoc with my ability to stay up and attentive in a game at 11pm. Kyle can testify to that personally.

Olive (who should change his location in his profile) put his son before gaming, so got up at 0530 to tend to him even though he might be gaming at 2200.

Priorities. I think that's an excellent ordering of priorities - but it's still his choice, plenty of dads make other choices, playing golf, drinking with workmates, and so on.

I think that short of that there are other things you can do. I already gave the example of the fireman, and with parents, people can game at their house meaning when the game finishes at 2230 they can go straight to bed instead of having to drive until 2330, or they can set aside a weekend day once a month - lots of options.

Olive's still gaming more regularly than another gamer friend of mine, also a parent, who claims to be "too busy" - but I know he spends 4 nights out of 7 each week simply sitting at his computer doing not much...

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;364475Olive (who should change his location in his profile) put his son before gaming, so got up at 0530 to tend to him even though he might be gaming at 2200.

Priorities. I think that's an excellent ordering of priorities - but it's still his choice, plenty of dads make other choices, playing golf, drinking with workmates, and so on.

I think that short of that there are other things you can do. I already gave the example of the fireman, and with parents, people can game at their house meaning when the game finishes at 2230 they can go straight to bed instead of having to drive until 2330, or they can set aside a weekend day once a month - lots of options.

Olive's still gaming more regularly than another gamer friend of mine, also a parent, who claims to be "too busy" - but I know he spends 4 nights out of 7 each week simply sitting at his computer doing not much...

I'm not personally making any hierarchy of people having their shit together vs. those who don't because they game along with this or that responsibility taken care of.

What I was saying was that sometimes, for some people, choosing to not game IS having your shit together.

We're not robots. We can't just compare Olive's experience to someone else with the kids etc and not gaming and saying "well, the latter obviously doesn't have his shit together". Wrong.

Experiences vary. Needs vary. Some dad may feel he needs an "exit strategy" once in a while to be able to handle the pressure of kids, job, responsibilities, etc. Might be a night with friends, or a game of poker... or playing role-playing games. Having that outlet keeps the guy sane. In that case, making room for gaming IS part of having his shit together.

Others (sometimes the very same people at different periods of their lives) will feel the need to focus on some areas of their lives and will choose not to game because it would detract their attention from said issues, or engender conflicts of interest with other things in their lives (the wife, the kids, the job the next day, whatever), and choose not to game. For them, not gaming IS part of having their shit together.

There's no "right" or "wrong" answers here. Only specific people, circumstances, and choices derived from these particular individuals' psychological makeups combined to circumstances they face in their lives.

It's easy to be judgmental and point the finger, but unless you live in someone else's shoes, it's impossible to know the specifics of their circumstances and know how they manage privately.