I think a lot of the back and forth around this question ties into different views about "memorable" encounters. 

I don't want every encounter to be memorable, on the grounds that if everything is special, nothing is.  Sometimes, I just want there was a thing that wasn't particularly anxious to interact with the party.  If they don't interact with it, nothing happens.  It takes 30 to 60 seconds, establishes that the world is out there, and then we move onto something else.  When it escalates, for whatever reason, then we spend time on that.

But then, I'm also one of those GM's that will embed something more interesting behind a bland exterior, and not care if the party doesn't react to it right away.  Or even ever, in some cases.  If it's important enough that it come out due to the nature of what is going on in the area, then eventually it will through normal events and actions.  For example, that same normal dude that smiles and says hello outside the inn may not provoke anything early.  When he keeps showing up on the outskirts of several strange happenings, players start to wonder.

Reaction rolls are another tool in my kit so that I can not force when or if someone with an agenda does something to get noticed.

Quote from: Steven Mitchell on May 08, 2023, 06:24:28 PM
I think a lot of the back and forth around this question ties into different views about "memorable" encounters. 

I don't want every encounter to be memorable, on the grounds that if everything is special, nothing is.  Sometimes, I just want there was a thing that wasn't particularly anxious to interact with the party.  If they don't interact with it, nothing happens.  It takes 30 to 60 seconds, establishes that the world is out there, and then we move onto something else.  When it escalates, for whatever reason, then we spend time on that.

But then, I'm also one of those GM's that will embed something more interesting behind a bland exterior, and not care if the party doesn't react to it right away.  Or even ever, in some cases.  If it's important enough that it come out due to the nature of what is going on in the area, then eventually it will through normal events and actions.  For example, that same normal dude that smiles and says hello outside the inn may not provoke anything early.  When he keeps showing up on the outskirts of several strange happenings, players start to wonder.

Reaction rolls are another tool in my kit so that I can not force when or if someone with an agenda does something to get noticed.

I agree. The beauty of reaction rolls is that it defaults to neutral, so most encounters will be just... as expected. But about 5% of the time, they'll be extremely aggressive or surprisingly friendly.

Quote from: Eric Diaz on May 08, 2023, 03:03:30 PM
My first motive for this thread was to give more variety to random encounters (using B/X).

I have just realized I had not been not using reaction rules in my current sandbox campaign, defaulting instead to "the NPCs will do the predictable thing according to their motivations and your respond to the PCs according to role-playing".

It works fine. But random encounters become a bit predictable and stale. For example, the PCs encountered some wolves, and I thought the wolves wouldn't approach a big group of humans for no reason. The PCs did nothing, so they walked away. Which was okay - but if I had rolled aggressive or friendly wolves, I could have rolled with it and have a more memorable encounter.

Likewise, when they met a group of clerics when looking for a temple, I made the clerics immediately friendly due to circumstances. But again, what is the worst suspicious of the PCs motives? Could be interesting, too.

I can give you a couple of other things I do to vary up encounters.


First is I use a time element that I can vary. How exactly does a random encounter begin? Before you even determine whether it's a friendly encounter or not. Kind of a generic here you are, here they are, and if you're really one of the cool DMs about following teh rulez you might even go so far as generating the encounter distance. Now I ask what would it look like if the PCs got there a little bit earlier? How about a little bit later? How about way later?

Some of these questions may not have interesting answers depending on the exact encounter and terrain. Randomly encountering wolves in the woods for instance. What does it mean to be early? To not encounter wolves? That would suggest you need to bring additional details to the encounter in general. It might also mean you hear howling. If you hear the howling when the PCs are early, does that mean the wolves are tracking or hunting the party? But then what would it mean if the PCs are late encountering the wolves. That they got bored, packed up and left?

This may reveal the real problem. You don't know what the wolves were out there doing. If you want a world that lives and breathes on its own rather than just waiting with baited breath for the PCs to show up, you need to have some idea of what the wolves were doing. And that's wrapped up in motive. But I think when you hold yourself to having to consider random encounters along different time frames, "motive" takes on a more specific meaning than it would in the context of just some fruity actor saying, "Excuse me, what's my motivation here?"

Probably the most obvious thing the wolves are out doing is hunting some game animal. Getting there "on time" you might add the detail of a deer panicked by the PCs presence, darting off into the woods as the preamble to the pack of hungry wolves staring down the PCs that just scared off the wolves' dinner. Getting there "late" might mean arriving as the wolves are attacking the deer. Getting there early might mean just encountering a harmless deer, which may mean an opportunity for PCs low on rations, but then soon after a howling in the distance indicating it might also be wiser to quickly move on. Getting there way light might mean just coming upon the gruesome aftermath of the wolf attack on the deer.

So the two benefits to varying time frame are 1) it disciplines you to consider "motive" in a more tangible way, and 2) the variation itself mixes things up. Of course, the time frame variance also need not be random. If the PCs are chugging along the adventure smoothly, you might let the players feel that their quick handling of things matters by tending towards random encounter time frames that are "early," and if they're dawdling too much, make the random encounter time frames "late."


The second one is to consider where the encounter takes place in the context of story. Despite how reactionary weirdos try to warp the definition of "story" into a box, stories can and do unfold in real time, even in sandbox play. If you are aware of where you are currently at in the story arc, or can at least make a decent guess, you can use that to color the encounter.

For instance, if it's early on, nothing really significant has happened, and the players are dawdling a bit having just spent 2 hours in-character arguing over what to have for breakfast, you might decide, in story terms, that it's time to cross out of the "ordinary world" and into the "extraordinary world." Or in layman's terms this shit is getting boring as fuck and something exciting needs to happen. So whatever random encounter the dice finally produces, it's got to be positioned in a way that ramps up the excitement and pushes things forward.

A city encounter with a drunk, for instance, cannot just be some ordinary 0th level drunk that PCs can just ignore. It might be a spy pretending to be drunk who slips one of the PCs some special item when "accidentally" bumping into the PC. From then on, there will be goons led by an NPC assassin who will be working to track down the PCs to retrieve the item by any means. And most of the assassin activity may occur running in the background "off screen" as the PCs continue to play in the sandbox, that's fine. The benefit is you set up a point of intrigue to help players have a little extra purpose while they're sandboxing, and you've also introduced something that makes the world live and breathe a little, not just waiting for the PCs to show up.

Interesting stuff. There are lots of things to consider; distance is certainly one of them (could be expanded to indicate the monster is even farther, so you only hear howls or see traces), and I think we might add random tables of sounds/tracks/carcasses, etc., instead of encountering the actual beast.

I made a blog post summarizing my favorites from this conversation, Reddit and some blog posts.

Here you go (full text copied below but better formatting in the link).

https://methodsetmadness.blogspot.com/2023/05/reaction-rolls-in-practice-osr.html

Here is a small procedure for reaction rolls.

1. Goals and disposition. Decide (or roll for) goals and disposition, in any order.
2. Role-playing and actions. Ask what the PCs say and do.
3. Roll to persuade and reactions. Roll to see how the NPCs react, if it isn't obvious.

Let's analyze each step.

1. Goals and disposition
Goals could be obvious. A beast is looking for food, or protecting if found in lair. Bandits are looking for easy money, not a bloody fight. Etc. But what if you find a chimera in the woods? Well, Teratogenicon has suggestions of goals for most monster types. Here is one that could work for supernatural, chaotic "monsters" in general.

d6 Goals
1 Hate. I want to destroy all natural creatures.
2 Cruelty. I like to play with my prey.
3 Survival. Everyone thinks I'm a menace. I'll destroy them before they destroy me!
4 Predator. I kill because I need to eat.
5 Collection. I enjoy a specific type of object (gold, shiny things, iron) or flesh (hearts, eyes, fingers).
6 Fear. I must protect myself from anything that comes near!

Disposition is friendly/hostile. Roll 2d6 as usual. Charisma does NOT affect this roll.

Decide in any order. You can roll for disposition and then decide if the wolf is hostile because it is hungry or territorial, or find a goal (hunger) and then roll disposition (a starved wolf might be aggressive or weak and docile enough to beg for food).

2. Role-playing and actions
Ask what the PCs say and do. This part is role-playing and doesn't require a roll. Do the PCs offer the beast some food? Or prepare their weapons when they see a misshapen humanoid? Etc.

This is the time to consider languages, and maybe also alignment, class, race, etc.

The NPCs reaction will sometimes be obvious - for example, bandits that outnumber the PCs seeing weapons drawn, etc. If not obvious, proceed to the next step.

3. Roll to persuade and reactions
If you are unsure if the bandits will accept a bribe to simply walk away, or if the wolf is docile enough to accept meat from humans, make a roll. You can use 2d6, but since you already have a disposition, a good roll will mean it improves by one or two steps (from hostile to uncertain, for example), and a bad roll means the opposite. Charisma applies here.

Since my current game (Dark Fantasy Basic) uses d20 skills, I just make a persuasion check (DC 15) to change disposition.

Friendly bandits (step 1), when offered a small bribe (step 2) and a bad roll (step 3) will ask for more, not attack immediately. But if they are neutral, a small offer and a bad roll will indicate they require A LOT more - maybe ALL OF IT, while a terrible roll means immediate attack ("you try to fool us? Now die!").

And that`s it for the procedure.

But let me ramble on a bit. After I show you the 2d6 table I'm using (also Teratogenicon):

Why I´m writing this
I have just realized I had not been not using reaction rules in my current sandbox campaign, defaulting instead to "the NPCs will do the predictable thing according to their motivations and your respond to the PCs according to role-playing".

It works fine. But random encounters become a bit predictable and stale. For example, the PCs encountered some wolves, and I thought the wolves wouldn't approach a big group of humans for no reason. The PCs did nothing, so they walked away. Which was okay - but if I had rolled aggressive or friendly wolves, I could have rolled with it and have a more memorable encounter.

Likewise, when they met a group of clerics when looking for a temple, I made the clerics immediately friendly due to circumstances. But again, what if they were suspicious of the PCs motives? Could be interesting, too.

I have started thinking and talking online about this... And then I remembered I wrote about this before. But I thought it was worth another post.

Initiative, surprise and single-roll reaction

While I like the procedure outline above, it takes three steps instead of a single 2d6 roll. The results are more nuanced and varied, but maybe you prefer a quicker method.

If that's the case, just use the traditional 2d6. Do not add charisma unless the PCs win initiative (or surprise etc.) and try to talk to their foes. Add circumstantial modifiers as needed (-4 to +4; e.g., NPC is a guard and PCs are invading, the weapons are drawn, NPC has a different language, etc.).

Rolling 1 on both dice means an immediate hostility regardless, and double 6s mean a positive attitude, within reason.

Even if you don't want the quicker method, using initiative in this way gives PCs meaningful choices. Do they attack now, or do they concede initiative to a potential enemy?

Alignment

In the absence of explicit goals for most monsters, you can use alignment as an indication. Chaotic monsters are more likely to attack when outnumber, cheat, steal, hide, break promises, etc., while lawful ones might be more honorable even when hostile ("I am bound to defend this bridge with my life, scum! Retreat or perish!")

As I mentioned before, alignment would be more useful if more specific.

Morale and courage

As seen on the table above, "hostile" doesn't mean "attack" necessarily. A weak foe might simply run.

Morale can be used to see how the NPCs respond to a credible risk or threat. You can add Charisma to the roll if you want, or require a Charisma check to trigger the morale roll when in doubt (as always, with circumstantial modifiers).

Recommended reading:

https://methodsetmadness.blogspot.com/2016/12/how-to-run-npcs-in-combat-days-of.html

https://methodsetmadness.blogspot.com/2017/09/social-skills-role-playing-versus-roll.html

https://methodsetmadness.blogspot.com/2021/05/monster-statblocks-how-good-is-ad.html

https://methodsetmadness.blogspot.com/2022/10/a-d20-reaction-check-osr.html

https://goblinpunch.blogspot.com/2023/03/how-to-handle-parley-as-osr-dm.html

Without reading the whole topic, let me quickly answer the OP:

The first issue is Party Posture. From "Friendly" to "Aggressive" I as a GM don't need too much more info to adjust accordingly whether it be sapient (talking and high thinking) humanoids or sentient (not talking yet cunning) animals. This allows me as a Human GM to modulate according to judgment and safely assume the party does or does not want to instigate trouble. From here I can roll an Initial Reaction Roll.

The second issue is conflating parley, extra placating gestures, food bribery (for animals), treasure bribery (for sapient beings who might care about treasure), etc. as the primary Reaction Roll. Actually, that extra effort is more of a 're-roll' in a lot of systems, and it tends to occur around the Surprise and 1st Round. This is where Bards can work their 'social magic', from praise poetry, to soothing song, etc. So if real effort is made, and it is not an Ambush or immediate Surprise attack, one can 're-roll' to hopefully have something besides combat occur.

After that it's a matter of luck or world logic. Most not-ambushing creatures are not immediately murderously hostile. So this makes territories with Ambush Predators very dangerous, and likely require Regional Guides, Readied Postures, and the Party looking all around to Prevent Surprise (like forward, back, sides, up, and down/ground). And yes, I definitely consider opposing guardian sorties of Sapient Humanoids in the Ambush Predator category.  Sentients and Sapients both understand the concept of controlled territory.

This makes most mindless monsters, like ambush plants (Shambling Mound), very very scary. They literally are a force of nature with little to reason with or frighten away. And this also makes a lot of the fun of Reaction Rolls as suddenly a potential battle might end up with a weird moment of mutual curiosity, benign indifference, or outright unexpected assistance. Humanoids and animals might end up being worth more than mere XP, they might open the game world to new treasures, allies of convenience, or mysteries.