Here is some positive thoughts about this topic that I want to share with you.

The Woke Future Of The Hobby - What Comes Easy Won't Last Long
https://youtu.be/-hWrHvHWZGA

Quote from: oggsmash on October 01, 2021, 02:17:19 PM

Quote from: ThatChrisGuy on September 30, 2021, 10:23:12 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on September 30, 2021, 05:54:00 PMThere's more to being Florida Man than just being a man in Florida, but I'm sure you could manage it.

Just practice this phrase: "Hold my beer and watch this."

  Too general, that would be appropriate for "Southern Man".

Can confirm for the Southern "Southern Man"

Quote from: VengerSatanis on October 01, 2021, 07:07:13 PM

Quote from: jhkim on October 01, 2021, 02:13:14 PM

Quote from: VengerSatanis on October 01, 2021, 11:58:24 AM
My blog post has an eloquent rant + screenshots. Part 2 of my expose on the toxic Exalted Funeral discord (and other places):  https://vengersatanis.blogspot.com/2021/10/the-best-disinfectant.html

OK, I see the forum bans which I understand is the cancellation.

Can you clarify what events you're calling harassment? That part is not clear to me from the post.

I'm talking about a range of behavior from uncalled for verbal abuse to banning people for stupid reasons to slander (calling people nazis), just all of it.  We're all trying to game and they're playing politics and getting butthurt over someone showing off their new RPG books.

Venger - I understand you can get that impression from creating your RPGs and looking at discussion in left-leaning RPG forums. On the other hand, around here, what I see are constant complaints over newly-published left-leaning RPG products like Thirsty Sword Lesbians or Coyote & Crow, or just free game expansions like Sara Thompson's Combat Wheelchair.

I think in the current political climate, gamers of all politics are much more inclined to bitch about the other side than to talk constructively about their own games.

I don't condone calling someone a nazi who isn't one, but still, I'd call that more name-calling than harassment.

Quote from: jhkim on October 01, 2021, 10:09:12 PM

Quote from: VengerSatanis on October 01, 2021, 07:07:13 PM

Quote from: jhkim on October 01, 2021, 02:13:14 PM

Quote from: VengerSatanis on October 01, 2021, 11:58:24 AM
My blog post has an eloquent rant + screenshots. Part 2 of my expose on the toxic Exalted Funeral discord (and other places):  https://vengersatanis.blogspot.com/2021/10/the-best-disinfectant.html

OK, I see the forum bans which I understand is the cancellation.

Can you clarify what events you're calling harassment? That part is not clear to me from the post.

I'm talking about a range of behavior from uncalled for verbal abuse to banning people for stupid reasons to slander (calling people nazis), just all of it.  We're all trying to game and they're playing politics and getting butthurt over someone showing off their new RPG books.

Venger - I understand you can get that impression from creating your RPGs and looking at discussion in left-leaning RPG forums. On the other hand, around here, what I see are constant complaints over newly-published left-leaning RPG products like Thirsty Sword Lesbians or Coyote & Crow, or just free game expansions like Sara Thompson's Combat Wheelchair.

I think in the current political climate, gamers of all politics are much more inclined to bitch about the other side than to talk constructively about their own games.

I don't condone calling someone a nazi who isn't one, but still, I'd call that more name-calling than harassment.

Yeah, because criticizing something is totally the same as what Venger is describing no?

Come on jhkim, I'm sure you can't believe that. I hope you don't because I think you're smarter than that. But maybe you think we're so stupid as to not see the false equivalence?

Quote from: GeekyBugle on October 01, 2021, 11:19:46 PM

Quote from: jhkim on October 01, 2021, 10:09:12 PM
Venger - I understand you can get that impression from creating your RPGs and looking at discussion in left-leaning RPG forums. On the other hand, around here, what I see are constant complaints over newly-published left-leaning RPG products like Thirsty Sword Lesbians or Coyote & Crow, or just free game expansions like Sara Thompson's Combat Wheelchair.

I think in the current political climate, gamers of all politics are much more inclined to bitch about the other side than to talk constructively about their own games.

I don't condone calling someone a nazi who isn't one, but still, I'd call that more name-calling than harassment.

Yeah, because criticizing something is totally the same as what Venger is describing no?

Come on jhkim, I'm sure you can't believe that. I hope you don't because I think you're smarter than that. But maybe you think we're so stupid as to not see the false equivalence?

What Venger described in his post was getting banned from a private forum. I'm not saying getting banned is the same thing as criticism - but it's also not the same as harassment.

What I was specifically responding to was Venger saying "We're all trying to game and they're playing politics". And I think that's wrong, at least where "we" is posters on theRPGsite. Here on these forums, we do an awful lot of political discussion, not just trying to game. Just look at the post volume on political debates versus non-political gaming posts.

Quote from: jhkim on October 02, 2021, 01:09:16 AM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on October 01, 2021, 11:19:46 PM

Quote from: jhkim on October 01, 2021, 10:09:12 PM
Venger - I understand you can get that impression from creating your RPGs and looking at discussion in left-leaning RPG forums. On the other hand, around here, what I see are constant complaints over newly-published left-leaning RPG products like Thirsty Sword Lesbians or Coyote & Crow, or just free game expansions like Sara Thompson's Combat Wheelchair.

I think in the current political climate, gamers of all politics are much more inclined to bitch about the other side than to talk constructively about their own games.

I don't condone calling someone a nazi who isn't one, but still, I'd call that more name-calling than harassment.

Yeah, because criticizing something is totally the same as what Venger is describing no?

Come on jhkim, I'm sure you can't believe that. I hope you don't because I think you're smarter than that. But maybe you think we're so stupid as to not see the false equivalence?

What Venger described in his post was getting banned from a private forum. I'm not saying getting banned is the same thing as criticism - but it's also not the same as harassment.

What I was specifically responding to was Venger saying "We're all trying to game and they're playing politics". And I think that's wrong, at least where "we" is posters on theRPGsite. Here on these forums, we do an awful lot of political discussion, not just trying to game. Just look at the post volume on political debates versus non-political gaming posts.

AND? When has any SJW been banned just for being one? Even self admited ones. Again, criticizing something isn't the same. And you're doubling down on the false equivalence dude.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on October 02, 2021, 01:23:13 AM
AND? When has any SJW been banned just for being one? Even self admited ones. Again, criticizing something isn't the same. And you're doubling down on the false equivalence dude.

Let me try again to express what I'm saying. I'm saying that all four of these are different.

(a) talking about one's own games and games one wants to play
(b) bitching about games of the opposing politics
(c) forum bans
(d) harassment

Venger claimed that his side did only (a). I claim that both sides do both (a) and (b). I'll buy that left-leaning forums do (c) much more. However, (c) is very different than (d).

I don't have an opinion on what the balance is on (d). Venger only posted examples of (c).

Quote from: Shasarak on October 01, 2021, 07:20:28 PM

Quote from: oggsmash on October 01, 2021, 02:17:19 PM

Quote from: ThatChrisGuy on September 30, 2021, 10:23:12 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on September 30, 2021, 05:54:00 PMThere's more to being Florida Man than just being a man in Florida, but I'm sure you could manage it.

Just practice this phrase: "Hold my beer and watch this."

  Too general, that would be appropriate for "Southern Man".

Can confirm for the Southern "Southern Man"

"Hold my sparkling hard cider coffee punch and my whiteclaw that I haven't opened yet, and don't spit your dip into my cider..."

Quote from: jhkim on October 02, 2021, 02:25:27 AM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on October 02, 2021, 01:23:13 AM
AND? When has any SJW been banned just for being one? Even self admited ones. Again, criticizing something isn't the same. And you're doubling down on the false equivalence dude.

Let me try again to express what I'm saying. I'm saying that all four of these are different.

(a) talking about one's own games and games one wants to play
(b) bitching about games of the opposing politics
(c) forum bans
(d) harassment

Venger claimed that his side did only (a). I claim that both sides do both (a) and (b). I'll buy that left-leaning forums do (c) much more. However, (c) is very different than (d).

I don't have an opinion on what the balance is on (d). Venger only posted examples of (c).

I wasn't trying to say that interactions over on discord during a 24 or 48 hour period included the entire range of shitty behavior.  All I was saying is that bad stuff happens on RPG focused social media, and I'm determined to call out the stuff that usually gets brushed under the rug, such as calling non-leftoids nazis and banning them for enjoying "problematic" creators.  But if there's other forms of shitty behavior also, then I will condemn that, as well, and would like to know about it. 

If the left wasn't pushing this culture war, the moderates' discussion of politics would decrees by at least 50%.  I was happy being in the middle, a centrist, before all this woke garbage forced me further to the right.  I didn't want to be here, but I am because fighting for freedom is the most important thing.

Quote from: VengerSatanis on October 02, 2021, 08:29:20 AM

Quote from: jhkim on October 02, 2021, 02:25:27 AM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on October 02, 2021, 01:23:13 AM
AND? When has any SJW been banned just for being one? Even self admited ones. Again, criticizing something isn't the same. And you're doubling down on the false equivalence dude.

Let me try again to express what I'm saying. I'm saying that all four of these are different.

(a) talking about one's own games and games one wants to play
(b) bitching about games of the opposing politics
(c) forum bans
(d) harassment

Venger claimed that his side did only (a). I claim that both sides do both (a) and (b). I'll buy that left-leaning forums do (c) much more. However, (c) is very different than (d).

I don't have an opinion on what the balance is on (d). Venger only posted examples of (c).

I wasn't trying to say that interactions over on discord during a 24 or 48 hour period included the entire range of shitty behavior.  All I was saying is that bad stuff happens on RPG focused social media, and I'm determined to call out the stuff that usually gets brushed under the rug, such as calling non-leftoids nazis and banning them for enjoying "problematic" creators.  But if there's other forms of shitty behavior also, then I will condemn that, as well, and would like to know about it. 

If the left wasn't pushing this culture war, the moderates' discussion of politics would decrees by at least 50%.  I was happy being in the middle, a centrist, before all this woke garbage forced me further to the right.  I didn't want to be here, but I am because fighting for freedom is the most important thing.

And here I thought playing games and having fun was the most important part of gaming...

Quote from: HappyDaze on October 02, 2021, 10:51:11 AM

Quote from: VengerSatanis on October 02, 2021, 08:29:20 AM

Quote from: jhkim on October 02, 2021, 02:25:27 AM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on October 02, 2021, 01:23:13 AM
AND? When has any SJW been banned just for being one? Even self admited ones. Again, criticizing something isn't the same. And you're doubling down on the false equivalence dude.

Let me try again to express what I'm saying. I'm saying that all four of these are different.

(a) talking about one's own games and games one wants to play
(b) bitching about games of the opposing politics
(c) forum bans
(d) harassment

Venger claimed that his side did only (a). I claim that both sides do both (a) and (b). I'll buy that left-leaning forums do (c) much more. However, (c) is very different than (d).

I don't have an opinion on what the balance is on (d). Venger only posted examples of (c).

I wasn't trying to say that interactions over on discord during a 24 or 48 hour period included the entire range of shitty behavior.  All I was saying is that bad stuff happens on RPG focused social media, and I'm determined to call out the stuff that usually gets brushed under the rug, such as calling non-leftoids nazis and banning them for enjoying "problematic" creators.  But if there's other forms of shitty behavior also, then I will condemn that, as well, and would like to know about it. 

If the left wasn't pushing this culture war, the moderates' discussion of politics would decrees by at least 50%.  I was happy being in the middle, a centrist, before all this woke garbage forced me further to the right.  I didn't want to be here, but I am because fighting for freedom is the most important thing.

And here I thought playing games and having fun was the most important part of gaming...

You'd be forgiven for thinking so, but freedom is even more important than elf-games.  I know, weird, right...? 

Quote from: VengerSatanis on October 02, 2021, 11:16:38 AM

Quote from: HappyDaze on October 02, 2021, 10:51:11 AM

Quote from: VengerSatanis on October 02, 2021, 08:29:20 AM

Quote from: jhkim on October 02, 2021, 02:25:27 AM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on October 02, 2021, 01:23:13 AM
AND? When has any SJW been banned just for being one? Even self admited ones. Again, criticizing something isn't the same. And you're doubling down on the false equivalence dude.

Let me try again to express what I'm saying. I'm saying that all four of these are different.

(a) talking about one's own games and games one wants to play
(b) bitching about games of the opposing politics
(c) forum bans
(d) harassment

Venger claimed that his side did only (a). I claim that both sides do both (a) and (b). I'll buy that left-leaning forums do (c) much more. However, (c) is very different than (d).

I don't have an opinion on what the balance is on (d). Venger only posted examples of (c).

I wasn't trying to say that interactions over on discord during a 24 or 48 hour period included the entire range of shitty behavior.  All I was saying is that bad stuff happens on RPG focused social media, and I'm determined to call out the stuff that usually gets brushed under the rug, such as calling non-leftoids nazis and banning them for enjoying "problematic" creators.  But if there's other forms of shitty behavior also, then I will condemn that, as well, and would like to know about it. 

If the left wasn't pushing this culture war, the moderates' discussion of politics would decrees by at least 50%.  I was happy being in the middle, a centrist, before all this woke garbage forced me further to the right.  I didn't want to be here, but I am because fighting for freedom is the most important thing.

And here I thought playing games and having fun was the most important part of gaming...

You'd be forgiven for thinking so, but freedom is even more important than elf-games.  I know, weird, right...? 

Your mistake is thinking that gaming is where to fight that battle. It's quite possible to separate the two, though in the case of those playing in the "culture war" there's obviously more need for imagination and suspension of disbelief than for those wanting to hunt dragons or fly FTL spacecraft.

Throughout all of this, I just wanted to play my fucking games. That's it. For all the issues the hobby had pre 2012 you could always find a game, always disconnect, and have fun. None of this "everything is political" bollocks. My barbarian with 8 Int and 6 Wis is not thinking of the inherent antiestablishmentarianism in most post modern scholars. He just wants to hit the fucking goblin on the head.

I know the really disingenuous thing amongst SJWs when people say "keep your politics out of games" is to point out politics have always had a place in games.  I've played games and run games myself with politics within the context of it's setting. Lots of intrigue and interesting nuance. But that doesn't necessarily reflect modern in the moment views on politics. Certainly it can get one to think but it isn't trying to convince one of the virtue of one ideology over the other. And especially not real life ideologies that have no place in a fantasy setting. We are saying keep YOUR politics out of the game. As in, your own personal biases that you can't keep in check to the point half your book instead of talking about rules or lore goes into why leftism is heckin valid and right wingers are all Satan and can't be allowed into the game. Or making fucking combat wheelchairs. That's pathetic and only serves to aggrandize the author instead of actual disabled people who don't want  to be reminded that they're cripples. In fact they want to escape into the fantasy of a cool world. Not be reminded how shit our current one is.

That's the crux of the matter. No one is going to initiate real social change in a god damn Tabletop game. You are not MLK because you made a gay muslim anarch vampire in VtM. Take your politics and remove them from the table. No one is convincing you that your politics are wrong or you aren't allowed to contribute to or even participate in the hobby except SJWs. Be whoever you want to be but respect the table and the people sitting next to you. But SJWs are incapable of doing that. Or seeing their behavior as wrong. They are the problem. And the problem is actually quite easy to fix.

Shut. Up.

Quote from: King Tyranno on October 02, 2021, 11:22:09 AMI know the really disingenuous thing amongst SJWs when people say "keep your politics out of games" is to point out politics have always had a place in games.

The answer to that point is: Yes, everything is political, the question is if its meaningfully political.
There is always micro quantities of arsenic in the air. If I complain that your pumping more of it through the ventilation, and you reply 'Well there has always been arsenic in the air', thats just playing retarded word games.

Quote from: HappyDaze on October 02, 2021, 11:20:04 AM

Quote from: VengerSatanis on October 02, 2021, 11:16:38 AM

Quote from: HappyDaze on October 02, 2021, 10:51:11 AM

Quote from: VengerSatanis on October 02, 2021, 08:29:20 AM

Quote from: jhkim on October 02, 2021, 02:25:27 AM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on October 02, 2021, 01:23:13 AM
AND? When has any SJW been banned just for being one? Even self admited ones. Again, criticizing something isn't the same. And you're doubling down on the false equivalence dude.

Let me try again to express what I'm saying. I'm saying that all four of these are different.

(a) talking about one's own games and games one wants to play
(b) bitching about games of the opposing politics
(c) forum bans
(d) harassment

Venger claimed that his side did only (a). I claim that both sides do both (a) and (b). I'll buy that left-leaning forums do (c) much more. However, (c) is very different than (d).

I don't have an opinion on what the balance is on (d). Venger only posted examples of (c).

I wasn't trying to say that interactions over on discord during a 24 or 48 hour period included the entire range of shitty behavior.  All I was saying is that bad stuff happens on RPG focused social media, and I'm determined to call out the stuff that usually gets brushed under the rug, such as calling non-leftoids nazis and banning them for enjoying "problematic" creators.  But if there's other forms of shitty behavior also, then I will condemn that, as well, and would like to know about it. 

If the left wasn't pushing this culture war, the moderates' discussion of politics would decrees by at least 50%.  I was happy being in the middle, a centrist, before all this woke garbage forced me further to the right.  I didn't want to be here, but I am because fighting for freedom is the most important thing.

And here I thought playing games and having fun was the most important part of gaming...

You'd be forgiven for thinking so, but freedom is even more important than elf-games.  I know, weird, right...? 

Your mistake is thinking that gaming is where to fight that battle. It's quite possible to separate the two, though in the case of those playing in the "culture war" there's obviously more need for imagination and suspension of disbelief than for those wanting to hunt dragons or fly FTL spacecraft.

Because ignoring the totalitarian, puritanical left has worked great so far right?