Quote from: Bradford C. Walker on July 08, 2021, 02:24:49 AM

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on July 07, 2021, 10:55:10 PM

Quote from: Svenhelgrim on July 07, 2021, 09:45:59 PM
So what do we do about it?

Not that guy, but a step 1 would be to reject tenants of their religeon. Lots of people have been brainwashed into accepting their ideas because they piggyback on better ones.

An example I point to is diversity. Reject it as a part of morality. If you accept that diversity is a virtue in it of itself, then anything done in its name is good.
Diversity is a neutral trait like something being red or green. Sometimes good, sometimes bad.

You're on the right track.

Wokeism--the Death Cult--is, specifically, a Christian Heresy. This is why it arises in what was Christendom, and can only be spread via piggybacking off memes of a Christian root (i.e. Western Liberalism). This is why it has particular animus for Christianity while making common cause with Islam and not giving two shits about Judaism or any other religion.

Listen to the language--the Rhetoric--they use. It's religious in its tone and presumes authority in its speech, authority that they seek to translate into power. No amount of facts or logic apply here; they are doubly-immune, first because it is not a rational argument and second because opposing them marks you as Enemy to them so they receive dispensation to prey upon you- and often with Establishment approval due to fellow travelers being in control of the institutions. (e.g. the difference between Antifa/BLM's legal issues and those of their targets).

You have to directly attack that authority. Arguing the tenants of their religion is pointless; you're an Enemy so you don't get a say. Go for the throat, and demand that they confess--in the religious sense foremost--that Jesus Christ is Lord and God raised Him from the dead. Do not stop until they confess or they retreat; if they try the false confession game GO HAM and post that confession EVERYWHERE THEIR PALS WILL SEE IT.

Remember Friend/Enemy? Remember this being a religion? Guess what confessing to the Enemy religion does?

EVERY SINGLE TIME this happens, they freak out and RUN. Online it's "Fuck this, Block/Protect/Hide" and NEVER do you see them or engage with them again and in meatspace they just LEAVE if they can't cow you into submission. No amount of Muh Atheism works. No non-Christian religions work. Just standing firm, calming repeating the demand until it is met, is sufficient to make them cave.

It IS weird, but it works, and that is why I tell you now that you cannot fight a false religion other than with a true one. You're not Enlightening your way out of this.

Greetings!

Amen, Bradford C. Walker!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: Bradford C. Walker on July 08, 2021, 02:24:49 AM
...
It IS weird, but it works, and that is why I tell you now that you cannot fight a false religion other than with a true one. You're not Enlightening your way out of this.

And this is the truth that a lot are still in denial of, even on this board.

So-called 'enlightenment thinking', 'classical liberalism', 'social libertarianism', or just flat out libertarianism and atheism, are only viable positions in a functional civilization so long as they are able to piggyback on a culture that has been saturated with 2000 years of Christian Morality.

As the west has gone away from Christian morality, and has adopted the conflict theory moral standard of determining who is engaging in right and wrong behavior by first determining who is the oppressed vs. the oppressor; all those other post enlightenment Laissez-faire moral stances start to fall apart. 

Because they are not based on civilization building morality. They just rode in on the coattails of Western Christian civilizations relative tolerance for sinners who kept to themselves and otherwise didn't rock the boat.

Although I don't care if I game with gay players as I am not there to argue, I am there to game; If they really want to know what I think on a particular issue - I'll tell them. And if it blows up the game, it blows it up.

100% guaranteed to blow it up...

But SJW's don't extend the other side even that curtesy. They are incapable of 'live and let live'.

And you see this in modern gaming, any wrongthink is ruthlessly punished.

NuTSR's twitter was absolutely hounded for their stance on LGBTQP "rights".

Over at ENworld as much as Morris loves to lock down threads when they get "controversial".  Under the guise of 'industry news' he has been 'reporting' on every tiny NuTSR faux pas he could find; doing his part to throw as much gasoline on the fire to burn what was perceived by them as a grognard incursion to the ground.

They don't care about how 'inclusive' you are or that you 'don't take sides'. All the fence sitters are gonna get it right up the middle from the SJW death cult the same as everyone else that disagrees with them.

Now if someone has deepish pockets there is an opportunity here.

Both "TSR" trademark holders have changed their names because of the recent Fredo Gygax dumpster fire.

I'd imagine all the TSR trademarks would be for sale at this point...

Just remember it was Christian goons who wanted to burn your D&D books in the 80's.

I keep seeing traps that are set for the un-woke.  Usually it will be some pro SJW, pro socialist message, or some anti Capaitalist message that calls anyone who wants to keep what they earn "evil".  Anti-Christian messages that tell you that if you do good deeds out of fear of going to Hell, that you aren't really good. Or some message a out how gays have been persecuted since the beginning of time, by whatever group you happen to identify with. 

To debate with these people is folly.  It is what they want.  They want you to expose yourself.  They will hit you with every logical fallacy, and narcissist trick.  They will gang up on you, call you an "-ist", or a "-phobe", they will cut and paste parts of what you say and show the entire world how evil you are.  And if you apologize, they will smell blood, and the feeding frenzy begins. 

We keep seeing this over and over.  We have to stop falling into the trap. We have to stop taking the bait.  We have to stop fighting them on their own turf. 

Someone said earlier that they are "eating their own" now.  Heck, Rheyden called Joe Biden right wing. If that's not eating your own, I don't know what is.

A place like this, gives us a fair chance, because we have the numbers. But we all know that they could sign up with fake accounts and swarm us.  And because we are predisposed to love virtue, truth, and reason, we always cave then they cry oppression. 

I am going to show you something that, if one of us said it on any other thread, would be an instant ban:

QuoteHere is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot

Switch the word "republican" with any other group and there would be outrage.  Yet we just bend over and take it. 

And just so I don't get a warning for posting non-gaming related matereal: RPG gaming groups have always been inclusive because we were persecuted.  We were bullied, beat up, insulted, derided by public figures and politicians.  So when people of a certain bend start gaslighting us and saying we were "-ist", "-phobic", gate-keepers, I just laugh and shake my head.  I am tired of falling into the trap.

Quote from: Ratman_tf on July 08, 2021, 05:24:24 AM
Just remember it was Christian goons who wanted to burn your D&D books in the 80's.

Nope, sorry...

It was neurotic mothers looking for something to blame for their bad parenting, and a few theological nobody hucksters trying to cash in on a media fueled ratings grab frenzy.

Why were a bunch of theological nobody hucksters given a so much media airtime?

Why were a bunch of no-names with little following outside their local congregations given a national microphone?

No mainstream or world wide Christian Church put out any official statements about "D&D being the devil".

How come the media at the time driving the "Christians say D&D is the devil" narrative never went to the head of any world wide mainstream Christian Church and asked for an official statement on the issue?

Because they knew the answer would go against with their "look at the crazy Christians" narrative that they were establishing. And they so love to conflate the fringe churchians, and the theological zero's of Christianity with every practicing Christian in America.

And apparently it's worked...

I was playing games during the whole so-called "panic"  I'm a member of one of the most conservative mainstream Christian Faiths in the US and world wide.

My Church's official stance on D&D? Absolutely nothing. It is a non issue. Never even brought up.


Now did some smaller loosely affiliated churches buy into the media hysteria? Yes. I wouldn't doubt that maybe even some local congregations of a mainstream church may have lost their damn minds.

So yeah, sucks for the guys who had to live with the actions of gullible parents and pastors with their mail-order preaching certificates who bought into the hysteria. And who made themselves feel good by hating on D&D instead of dealing with their own issues...

But let's label the churchian goons for what they really were, and in some cases still are: Idiots.

Not mainstream Christianity.

Don't buy into the media's Black Legend.

Quote from: Ocule on July 03, 2021, 11:07:15 AMUsually i'll use logic and reason, other times i'll use sarcasm and mockery

Sarcasm and mockery is always best. It's important to let them know they are not welcome.

Quoteit always ends the same. A banning from whatever website or platform it's being discussed on. Normally I wouldn't give a flying rats ass about being banned from a politically charged cesspool, but i'm starting to despair as one community after another falls to this cult.

Remember that the only roleplaying they do is pretending to be gamers. So the end result of this is that their community becomes a collection of SJWs who are not interested in gaming, only in policing gaming - but by booting out all the people who actually game, they now have nothing to actually police except one another's speech.

They are irrelevant to the game tables of the world. If you have an open game table and speak to any of them about gaming forums, not one in ten of them will be even vaguely aware of all this bullshit and drama.

Thus, the only proper response is sarcasm and mockery.

I agree with many points about how the enlightenment changed things and the nature of the religousness of the sjw movement, but where it argues its a literal actual desth cult is when it descends into self serving hyperbole and hysteria.

Edit: also believing that you beat sjws by making them confess to jesus is also laughable. And Im a guy pro religion.

Quote from: Jaeger on July 07, 2021, 04:07:17 PM

How do we defeat the SJW's?

Venger was right on this point:

We need to build our own Kingdoms.

The apolitical "gaming is for everyone" stance is not for the SJW's, it is for the normies.

We need outreach to show people that there are other ways to play "D&D", and to bring them into the fold.

Maybe even have them play non-fantasy games too... 

Because ultimately, tenbones is right:

Quote from: tenbones on July 03, 2021, 03:23:26 PM
...
I would add a necessary addendum to this: We need to reach out and bring new people into the fold. Without outreach this is plan of attrition where we get ground down. If we bring new players into our midsts... then we have the advantage. Our GM's are better. Our games are better. The best way to serve ourselves and our aims is to take their players from them and show them.

Remember - WE have been here longer than them. They own the name. We own the spirit.

These people are riding high on a pop-culture wave of popularity that they had nothing to do with. 5e had silly lucky timing, and they are acting like it will go on forever.

It will not.
WOTC will fuck it up.

And if we grow enough, someone on our side will be in a position to be the next pathfinder to WOTC's 6e woke abortion.

That is the goal. But make no mistake; it is one tall fucking order.

I'm starting another thread to explore this avenue of thinking with the bolded sentence the focus.

https://www.therpgsite.com/pen-paper-roleplaying-games-rpgs-discussion/bastions-of-gaming/

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on July 08, 2021, 08:24:55 AM
Edit: also believing that you beat sjws by making them confess to jesus is also laughable. And Im a guy pro religion.

Perhaps, but I don't think starting each game session with a prayer of exorcism over any of the Woke there would be a bad idea either.

Quote from: Chris24601 on July 08, 2021, 09:10:51 AM

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on July 08, 2021, 08:24:55 AM
Edit: also believing that you beat sjws by making them confess to jesus is also laughable. And Im a guy pro religion.

Perhaps, but I don't think starting each game session with a prayer of exorcism over any of the Woke there would be a bad idea either.

Don't look to God to solve this mess for you.
Free will is a bitch.

Quote from: Jaeger on July 08, 2021, 06:29:16 AM

Quote from: Ratman_tf on July 08, 2021, 05:24:24 AM
Just remember it was Christian goons who wanted to burn your D&D books in the 80's.

Nope, sorry...

It was neurotic mothers looking for something to blame for their bad parenting, and a few theological nobody hucksters trying to cash in on a media fueled ratings grab frenzy.

Why were a bunch of theological nobody hucksters given a so much media airtime?

Why were a bunch of no-names with little following outside their local congregations given a national microphone?

No mainstream or world wide Christian Church put out any official statements about "D&D being the devil".

How come the media at the time driving the "Christians say D&D is the devil" narrative never went to the head of any world wide mainstream Christian Church and asked for an official statement on the issue?

Because they knew the answer would go against with their "look at the crazy Christians" narrative that they were establishing. And they so love to conflate the fringe churchians, and the theological zero's of Christianity with every practicing Christian in America.

And apparently it's worked...

I was playing games during the whole so-called "panic"  I'm a member of one of the most conservative mainstream Christian Faiths in the US and world wide.

My Church's official stance on D&D? Absolutely nothing. It is a non issue. Never even brought up.


Now did some smaller loosely affiliated churches buy into the media hysteria? Yes. I wouldn't doubt that maybe even some local congregations of a mainstream church may have lost their damn minds.

So yeah, sucks for the guys who had to live with the actions of gullible parents and pastors with their mail-order preaching certificates who bought into the hysteria. And who made themselves feel good by hating on D&D instead of dealing with their own issues...

But let's label the churchian goons for what they really were, and in some cases still are: Idiots.

Not mainstream Christianity.

Don't buy into the media's Black Legend.

I didn't say mainstream Christianity. I'm perfectly aware that it was a small but vocal fraction of Christians who ginned up the outrage. Just like the SJW cult we've got now, a few vocal assholes set the tone, and everyone else either falls in line or stays silent and allows the insanity to happen, hoping it will pass them over.

And it wasn't just some nerds playing D&D in the basement who were targeted. That was part of the crazy Satanic Panic phenomenon.

I think I've come a long way from my anti-theist days, and I agree that without religion, a lot of people will simply make up their own wonky secular religions, but Christianity itself is vulnerable, maybe especially vulnerable, to the same SJW mentality.

ok well, just do I am honest with at least myself.

I just had a full blown argument with several of my friends who are also Christian and out of five of us there yelling only two of us would want to attend a D&D convention if we somehow knew ahead of time we would be playing with anyone from the LGBTQ+ community.

Frankly, am shocked. I was telling them about this thread and how fucking ridicules it was when things took a turn I didn't expect.

I'm sad.

Quote from: Gameogre on July 08, 2021, 03:49:34 PM
ok well, just do I am honest with at least myself.

I just had a full blown argument with several of my friends who are also Christian and out of five of us there yelling only two of us would want to attend a D&D convention if we somehow knew ahead of time we would be playing with anyone from the LGBTQ+ community.

Frankly, am shocked. I was telling them about this thread and how fucking ridicules it was when things took a turn I didn't expect.

I'm sad.

Is it because they don't want to associate with gay people in general, or people who identify with the LGBTQ+ community?

Quote from: Gameogre on July 08, 2021, 03:49:34 PM
ok well, just do I am honest with at least myself.

Intelectual honesty and self awareness is key to a happy life. It can be sad at times, but self delusion is worse.

The Age of Enlightenment and the idea of inalienable human rights is the ONLY reason why we have a valid position for defeating the SJWs with anything other than a justification based on violence.

The alternative is either one side slaughters the other in killing fields, or the other side burns the first alive at the stake (or if you want to be more modern about it, helicopter rides).

Pre-Enlightenment Christianity and Foucaultian Postmodernism (SJWs) have the same fundamental ideological notion: MIGHT MAKES RIGHT.

The only difference is Christianity think it's "God's Might" that makes them right. While SJWs think it's their superior semantic ability to develop a more powerful narrative.

The Christians do sound a little less narcissistic at least, but it only goes so far, since as a rule whatever God hates and wants destroyed happens by some miracle to be exactly what they personally hate and want destroyed! Funny how that works out.