Quote from: Shasarak on September 30, 2021, 04:23:42 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on September 30, 2021, 04:17:08 PM
So, to you it's worse because you can't grow the fuck up and isolate your gaming from the nonsense "culture war" that you believe is raging everywhere. Yawn...

I keep thinking that it must be sweet to live in Florida.

There's always room for another tourist.

Quote from: GriswaldTerrastone on September 30, 2021, 04:33:51 PM
If I was wheelchair-bound I would most certainly NOT to play a wheelchair-bound character.

The whole point of these sort of RPGs is to be something beyond what you really are. It could be a Lucas McCain-style character in a western, A Han Solo rogue in a space opera, or- in AD&D- a spell-slinging wizard, a mighty warrior like Conan or Dannus, maybe something odd like a pseudo-dragon scout...

It seems the politically-correct crowd misses the point.

What's more, who would need a wheelchair for any length of time in an AD&D world? There are spells that can grant wishes, regenerate lost limbs, restore sight, even resurrect the dead for crying out loud, so how can any adventurer with any experience and loot not be fully regenerated or cured?

I used to volunteer in a VA hospital for a time while my father was there. The idea of a wheelchair warrior in a dungeon with trap doors, pits, etc. is ludicrous. Imagine such a character trying to accompany Thorin & Company on their way through Mirkwood or climbing the Lonely Mountain. Good luck escaping a rampaging Smaug.


Incidentally, regarding an earlier post- funny how the left used to hate the corporations, but ever since the 1990's have been embracing them more and more as they become more "woke." Oh, certainly- no ulterior motives there.

Hear, hear! There is a group that willfully or ignorantly fails to understand that role playing means pretending to be someone else. They fail to understand that diversity in the game need not align with diversity in real life. They fail to appreciate that, in fact, many settings require a different scope of diversity from real life for sake of verisimilitude. Out of laziness or malice, they try to shape the fantasy world to fit their modern way of thinking, when any actual role player knows that you must do the exact opposite and shape your modern way of thinking to fit the fantasy world.

If it's ignorance, I have no patience for them. If it's willful, then they are actively trying to destroy the hobby by chipping away its very foundation and they must be ridiculed and banished.

Or you can go tell this to John Wick to his face and record the whole thing.

Some role-playing is pretending to be an idealized version of your self.  Lots of people imagine themselves as the protagonist in a movie or a book.  In an RPG, you're definitely taking on the role of your character, and it is extremely rare for characters to have NOTHING in common with the player that portrays them. 

If you're in a wheelchair and you're interested in playing a character that is ALSO in a wheelchair, but a bad-ass that slays dragons, I don't want to be the one to tell you that your fun pisses me off.  The game has rules so you're not rolling up to the table as Superman, but I'll work with you to accommodate the character you want as best I can.  Wheelchairs are easy compared to some of the things I've been asked to allow. 

But are you a monster for not really wanting to allow those kinds of elements into your game?

And if that's the case - in what way are the creators of this content racists, X-phobes for not catering to me specifically?

Serious litmus test. Because on social media and even at public tables with strangers - that's exactly what is happening.

Edit: as you well know this is *not* about Combat Wheelchairs. It's about the infantile belief representation of such is somehow important. And in comes the lone outlier with such desires to claim their need to have such representation at the social expense of everyone else. It's the same dynamic as the Heckler's Veto... at minimum. Normally it's just people screeching you're a hateful monster. Which I may well be, but not for those reasons. Unlike the SJW LARP Cannibals, I'm descended from the real thing. I'm a civilized monster.

Quote from: deadDMwalking on September 30, 2021, 05:33:22 PM
Some role-playing is pretending to be an idealized version of your self.  Lots of people imagine themselves as the protagonist in a movie or a book.  In an RPG, you're definitely taking on the role of your character, and it is extremely rare for characters to have NOTHING in common with the player that portrays them. 

If you're in a wheelchair and you're interested in playing a character that is ALSO in a wheelchair, but a bad-ass that slays dragons, I don't want to be the one to tell you that your fun pisses me off.  The game has rules so you're not rolling up to the table as Superman, but I'll work with you to accommodate the character you want as best I can.  Wheelchairs are easy compared to some of the things I've been asked to allow.

Lets see a show of hands me lads and lasses!

To how many of you has EVER happened this?

Quote from: GeekyBugle on September 30, 2021, 05:39:47 PM

Quote from: deadDMwalking on September 30, 2021, 05:33:22 PM
Some role-playing is pretending to be an idealized version of your self.  Lots of people imagine themselves as the protagonist in a movie or a book.  In an RPG, you're definitely taking on the role of your character, and it is extremely rare for characters to have NOTHING in common with the player that portrays them. 

If you're in a wheelchair and you're interested in playing a character that is ALSO in a wheelchair, but a bad-ass that slays dragons, I don't want to be the one to tell you that your fun pisses me off.  The game has rules so you're not rolling up to the table as Superman, but I'll work with you to accommodate the character you want as best I can.  Wheelchairs are easy compared to some of the things I've been asked to allow.

Lets see a show of hands me lads and lasses!

To how many of you has EVER happened this?

It's happened to me once. I had a player - a Guamanian/Filipino mutant monster, I ran a fairly serious Vampire game, and he took the Quadriplegic Flaw, and he had a modified high-speed wheelchair and bolt-on reinforced sharpened pool-cue he'd actually try to charge into combat with (Difficulty 9).

I let him do it - and he was slaughtered in the first combat - but to his credit he did wound a neonate anarch before getting yanked out of his wheelchair and beat into torpor with it (the wheelchair) before waking up with that pool-que rammed up his ass and through his heart as the sun came up.

No one has asked me to play a wheelchair bound character since.

Honestly - I think it's a fine thing for certain kinds of games. Modernish one for sure. Especially things like horror and/or investigative games.

But pretending this idiocy works for dungeon and hexcrawling is stupid.

Quote from: HappyDaze on September 30, 2021, 04:58:29 PM

Quote from: Shasarak on September 30, 2021, 04:23:42 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on September 30, 2021, 04:17:08 PM
So, to you it's worse because you can't grow the fuck up and isolate your gaming from the nonsense "culture war" that you believe is raging everywhere. Yawn...

I keep thinking that it must be sweet to live in Florida.

There's always room for another tourist.

Who wants to be a Tourist when you could be Florida Man

Quote from: tenbones on September 30, 2021, 05:46:04 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on September 30, 2021, 05:39:47 PM

Quote from: deadDMwalking on September 30, 2021, 05:33:22 PM
Some role-playing is pretending to be an idealized version of your self.  Lots of people imagine themselves as the protagonist in a movie or a book.  In an RPG, you're definitely taking on the role of your character, and it is extremely rare for characters to have NOTHING in common with the player that portrays them. 

If you're in a wheelchair and you're interested in playing a character that is ALSO in a wheelchair, but a bad-ass that slays dragons, I don't want to be the one to tell you that your fun pisses me off.  The game has rules so you're not rolling up to the table as Superman, but I'll work with you to accommodate the character you want as best I can.  Wheelchairs are easy compared to some of the things I've been asked to allow.

Lets see a show of hands me lads and lasses!

To how many of you has EVER happened this?

It's happened to me once. I had a player - a Guamanian/Filipino mutant monster, I ran a fairly serious Vampire game, and he took the Quadriplegic Flaw, and he had a modified high-speed wheelchair and bolt-on reinforced sharpened pool-cue he'd actually try to charge into combat with (Difficulty 9).

I let him do it - and he was slaughtered in the first combat - but to his credit he did wound a neonate anarch before getting yanked out of his wheelchair and beat into torpor with it (the wheelchair) before waking up with that pool-que rammed up his ass and through his heart as the sun came up.

No one has asked me to play a wheelchair bound character since.

I think his question was whether you'd had a player in a wheelchair that wanted to play a character in a wheelchair.

Closest I had was a legally blind (he could see a little) player that wanted to play a blind character. We gave it a try but dropped it after two sessions because describing scenes to him without visual descriptions was a real pain in the ass. Might work with some of those virtual tabletops though if the player could see well enough to use them, but I'm not doing it again at a FtF table.

Quote from: Shasarak on September 30, 2021, 05:50:04 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on September 30, 2021, 04:58:29 PM

Quote from: Shasarak on September 30, 2021, 04:23:42 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on September 30, 2021, 04:17:08 PM
So, to you it's worse because you can't grow the fuck up and isolate your gaming from the nonsense "culture war" that you believe is raging everywhere. Yawn...

I keep thinking that it must be sweet to live in Florida.

There's always room for another tourist.

Who wants to be a Tourist when you could be Florida Man

There's more to being Florida Man than just being a man in Florida, but I'm sure you could manage it.

Quote from: tenbones on September 30, 2021, 05:48:31 PM
Honestly - I think it's a fine thing for certain kinds of games. Modernish one for sure. Especially things like horror and/or investigative games.

But pretending this idiocy works for dungeon and hexcrawling is stupid.

Something we've been saying since day one. Wana be the guy with a tank instead of a wheelchair in Alien? No prob. But even him was limited when the space didn't allow him to pass wasn't him?

Think he could have done some spelunking?

Quote from: HappyDaze on September 30, 2021, 05:52:41 PM

Quote from: tenbones on September 30, 2021, 05:46:04 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on September 30, 2021, 05:39:47 PM

Quote from: deadDMwalking on September 30, 2021, 05:33:22 PM
Some role-playing is pretending to be an idealized version of your self.  Lots of people imagine themselves as the protagonist in a movie or a book.  In an RPG, you're definitely taking on the role of your character, and it is extremely rare for characters to have NOTHING in common with the player that portrays them. 

If you're in a wheelchair and you're interested in playing a character that is ALSO in a wheelchair, but a bad-ass that slays dragons, I don't want to be the one to tell you that your fun pisses me off.  The game has rules so you're not rolling up to the table as Superman, but I'll work with you to accommodate the character you want as best I can.  Wheelchairs are easy compared to some of the things I've been asked to allow.

Lets see a show of hands me lads and lasses!

To how many of you has EVER happened this?

It's happened to me once. I had a player - a Guamanian/Filipino mutant monster, I ran a fairly serious Vampire game, and he took the Quadriplegic Flaw, and he had a modified high-speed wheelchair and bolt-on reinforced sharpened pool-cue he'd actually try to charge into combat with (Difficulty 9).

I let him do it - and he was slaughtered in the first combat - but to his credit he did wound a neonate anarch before getting yanked out of his wheelchair and beat into torpor with it (the wheelchair) before waking up with that pool-que rammed up his ass and through his heart as the sun came up.

No one has asked me to play a wheelchair bound character since.

I think his question was whether you'd had a player in a wheelchair that wanted to play a character in a wheelchair.

Closest I had was a legally blind (he could see a little) player that wanted to play a blind character. We gave it a try but dropped it after two sessions because describing scenes to him without visual descriptions was a real pain in the ass. Might work with some of those virtual tabletops though if the player could see well enough to use them, but I'm not doing it again at a FtF table.

Yep, that was the question, thanks for the input, so we have one instance so far.

Quote from: deadDMwalking on September 30, 2021, 05:33:22 PM
Some role-playing is pretending to be an idealized version of your self.  Lots of people imagine themselves as the protagonist in a movie or a book.  In an RPG, you're definitely taking on the role of your character, and it is extremely rare for characters to have NOTHING in common with the player that portrays them. 

If you're in a wheelchair and you're interested in playing a character that is ALSO in a wheelchair, but a bad-ass that slays dragons, I don't want to be the one to tell you that your fun pisses me off.  The game has rules so you're not rolling up to the table as Superman, but I'll work with you to accommodate the character you want as best I can.  Wheelchairs are easy compared to some of the things I've been asked to allow.

I would totally allow someone to start* as a disabled character. I would help them come up with ideas, too. A golem, a magical floating platform, a cool mechanical claw, a servant, etc. A combat wheelchair is a DULL and UNIMAGINATIVE transplant from the modern world. The game is about using your imagination and that is quite simply a failure of imagination. This applies to everything. If there's no coffee in my world and you love coffee and always have to have coffee and have a collection of coffee mugs with coffee sayings printed on them and you want your character to love coffee too, I will be the one to tell you that your coffee fun is not part of this world. The accommodation is pick a beverage appropriate to the world, just like picking a mode of transportation or assistive device that is appropriate to the world.

*a lot of PCs end up becoming disabled but that's a different thing.

Quote from: rytrasmi on September 30, 2021, 06:01:33 PM

Quote from: deadDMwalking on September 30, 2021, 05:33:22 PM
Some role-playing is pretending to be an idealized version of your self.  Lots of people imagine themselves as the protagonist in a movie or a book.  In an RPG, you're definitely taking on the role of your character, and it is extremely rare for characters to have NOTHING in common with the player that portrays them. 

If you're in a wheelchair and you're interested in playing a character that is ALSO in a wheelchair, but a bad-ass that slays dragons, I don't want to be the one to tell you that your fun pisses me off.  The game has rules so you're not rolling up to the table as Superman, but I'll work with you to accommodate the character you want as best I can.  Wheelchairs are easy compared to some of the things I've been asked to allow.

I would totally allow someone to start* as a disabled character. I would help them come up with ideas, too. A golem, a magical floating platform, a cool mechanical claw, a servant, etc. A combat wheelchair is a DULL and UNIMAGINATIVE transplant from the modern world. The game is about using your imagination and that is quite simply a failure of imagination. This applies to everything. If there's no coffee in my world and you love coffee and always have to have coffee and have a collection of coffee mugs with coffee sayings printed on them and you want your character to love coffee too, I will be the one to tell you that your coffee fun is not part of this world. The accommodation is pick a beverage appropriate to the world, just like picking a mode of transportation or assistive device that is appropriate to the world.

*a lot of PCs end up becoming disabled but that's a different thing.

We've been this route too, we got called istophobes because Dragons.

It's not really about playing a dissabled character, it's about making you change your world to accomodate them... Because Dragons.

Your coffee example is on point but will fall on deaf ears, and no one is more deaf than the one that refuses to hear.