Greetings; first post but long-time lurker.

Has anyone made an exhaustive list of OSR titles ranked by various factors? Honestly art and production are important to me personally to get into a rules set, but content must also be worthwhile.

Some examples of titles I consider excellent in both areas:

ACKS
Adventures in the East Mark (unfortunate there seems to be no move on English translations for remaining sets)
Castles & Crusades
Hackmaster
Beneath the Sunken Catacombs
Against the Darkmaster (D100/MERP clone, so technically not OSR)
Astonishing Swordsmen & Sorcerers of Hyperboria
Swords & Wizardry
Most of the OSR Pundit games
OSE

Lots of games I consider "middling", mainly from poor art and layout but contain decent content such as Adventures Dark & Deep, LotFP, Laybrinth Lord, Beyond the Wall. Some like Basic Fantasy I find middling in both categories.

At any rate any recommendations for hidden gems that hit the high points such as the aforementioned rules? Have tons of OSR digitally, but like to own the physical copies of rules and settings worth purchasing.

Thanks!

Of S&W derivatives, White Star is top notch.
Crypts & Things 1e is middling presentation, some decent ideas. I think Operation: Whitebox goes there too or a bit higher. Warriors of the Red Planet is pretty nice.

Quote from: S'mon on March 31, 2023, 06:54:11 PM
Of S&W derivatives, White Star is top notch.
Crypts & Things 1e is middling presentation, some decent ideas. I think Operation: Whitebox goes there too or a bit higher. Warriors of the Red Planet is pretty nice.

Odd....friend was over last night and was looking for a good Barsoom themed game, remembered had a digital copy of WotRP, he liked it so ordered a physical via DTRPG. Plan on using it for a miniature based campaign. Great rules set all around.

Will take a look at the other recommended sets, my thanks!

Greetings!

Welcome, Valhuen!

As far as OSR games go--I think while specific rules, mechanics, and art all contribute--OSR gaming is much more a style of play, a kind of "Mind set". As many know, I have run 5E campaigns that are very much OSR.

I ignore the worthless WOTC art.

I have stripped out the various stupid rules in the rulebooks that I don't like.

I have heavily restricted spells, as well as the super-power characters of the month flavours. Lots of classes, powers, races--the answer is NO.

Resource management is critically important.

Death, brutality, and terrible racism, hatred, suffering, and violence are common and ever-present throughout the campaign.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: SHARK on March 31, 2023, 07:21:05 PM

As far as OSR games go--I think while specific rules, mechanics, and art all contribute--OSR gaming is much more a style of play, a kind of "Mind set". As many know, I have run 5E campaigns that are very much OSR.

Totally agree.
A lot of folks seem to equate the OSR with a nostalgia for primitive and frankly not very good game design.
Game design has come a long way over the last 50 years.

For modern design with an OSR feel and good production values, I've liked both ICRPG and Forbidden Lands.
Eager to get a look at the full version of Shadowdark.

Quote from: Festus on April 01, 2023, 02:22:11 AM

Quote from: SHARK on March 31, 2023, 07:21:05 PM

As far as OSR games go--I think while specific rules, mechanics, and art all contribute--OSR gaming is much more a style of play, a kind of "Mind set". As many know, I have run 5E campaigns that are very much OSR.

Totally agree.
A lot of folks seem to equate the OSR with a nostalgia for primitive and frankly not very good game design.
Game design has come a long way over the last 50 years.































For modern design with an OSR feel and good production values, I've liked both ICRPG and Forbidden Lands.
Eager to get a look at the full version of Shadowdark.

Pretty much a subjective question, though.  A lot of people think game design has "advanced" in the last 50 years, but that's a subjective assertion, just like anything else.  You might think CGI has advanced, but are modern movies "better?"  Not necessarily.  Is music better than in 1973?  Probably not, even if technology is better.  Is 5e D&D better than 1e?  Of course not.  And you could argue that the design is worse in many ways because it's dumbed down, like the whole game.  But in the end, it's all subjective.  So I think it's best to think of features you like, and ask about games with those, which you essentially did.  But keep in mind that we'll all have our preferences.

I love the retro/nostalgia look of both DCC and Fantastic Heroes & Witchery.

LFG deluxe has good content and looks good.

Although TBH, the (often boring) 5e art is better in quality than most OSR games.

For me, I guess its really hard to judge.

I read a bunch of different ORS systems before I landed on the one I am going to use.

Does that mean the other ones were bad? No.  They simply didn't do what I was looking for.

I guess for me, you just have to read a bunch of OSR products and find the one that works best for you.

Hi! first post but long-time lurker too =)

Quote from: SHARK on March 31, 2023, 07:21:05 PM
Greetings!

Welcome, Valhuen!

As far as OSR games go--I think while specific rules, mechanics, and art all contribute--OSR gaming is much more a style of play, a kind of "Mind set". As many know, I have run 5E campaigns that are very much OSR.

I ignore the worthless WOTC art.

I have stripped out the various stupid rules in the rulebooks that I don't like.

I have heavily restricted spells, as well as the super-power characters of the month flavours. Lots of classes, powers, races--the answer is NO.

Resource management is critically important.

Death, brutality, and terrible racism, hatred, suffering, and violence are common and ever-present throughout the campaign.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Not quite correct, is more than just the gameplay, is the game mechanics. OSR was born mainly because the firsts D&D (D&D 0E, Basic D&D, through AD&D 1E, 2E?) games it could not be found, it was no longer printed, and because the recent version was something different in gameplay and rules. OSR games bring not just the original gameplay and adventures (Sword and Sorcery), but the game mechanics are mostly compatible between these games taking the advantage that people can play adventures from AD&D or Basic D&D. Each time that passes, each person gives it another OSR definition, and it changes again or try to create a new term.

I'm very new to RPG never playing one in my life until recently by myself, solo and a few times with 1 player and me (DM). I started reading D&D 0E and other version like Basic D&D 1E through 3E, (Holmes, BX, 'BE'CMI) because I wanted. It is not nostalgia, I hadn't even been born. More recent I read and play OSR games.

I can't compare it to the newer version or say it's clunky, or say "it's an old mechanic", it's all new to me, and I enjoy it equally.

To the OP. Why you Production Value/Content? I don't have a ranked list like this lol, and it is not fair to compare it with a game made by a big company like H4shbr0. These are games that I enjoy at this moment, for me, it has value and I already spend money on some of them. Because I'm new, I tried to read lots of rpg games and I notice something... lots of games are house rules of other game with new arts or different layout.

Anyway, I tend to prefer games with less fluff and less art, art should not distract me when I'm reading.

- Lamentation of the Flame Princess
- Laybrinth Lord
- Swords & Wizardry
- OD&D Single Volumen
- The Gray Book
- Mazes & Perils
- Holmes 77
- Delving Deeper
- Big Brown Book

I played other games too:
- Tunnels & Trolls
- Swords and Six-Siders
- Ancient Odysseys: Treasure Awaits
- NoteQuest

Why so many games? Because I can borrow from them. I have other games is my list to read and play.

My waitlist
- Astonishing Swordsmen & Sorcerers of Hyperboria
- Barbarians of Lemuria
- ACKS
- Seven Voyages of Zylarthen
- DCC
- Crypts and Things

Quote from: cimmer12 on April 03, 2023, 12:14:27 PM
My waitlist
- Barbarians of Lemuria

Barbarians of Lemuria is pretty cool.  Another one is Old School Essentials, currently my go to OSR product

The main thing for me is the rules changes. I'm not interested in an exact or faithful clone, as I can just as well stick to AD&D 2e that I'm familiar with it, and make houserules until it suits my personal taste.

So stuff that is actually valuable are some of the changes in Lamentations of the Flame Princess (Thief - the garbage class - is replaced with Expert, which actually is functional; only fighter gets an attack bonus and only Fighter increases in attack bonus; encumbrance is streamlined so it gets actually used). Overall Keven Crawford's setting specific games (Wolves of God, Silent Legions, Spears of the Dawn) are well integrated and come across like unusually well designed '90s era RPGs. Castles & Crusades has a familiar feel but is also mechanically sufficiently different to actually justify using a different system.

Then there are systems that aren't inspired by D&D directly, like ZeFRS, which is a faithful clone of a distinctly different system that is hard to get your hands on.

This might be a hot take, but I think I would actually pick Lamentations of the Flame Princess as having the best art and overall presentation of the OSR. The Rules & Magic book is a thing of beauty, and quite a few of their adventure books have extremely high production values as well.

For "value-for money" purposes, it's kind of hard to argue with Basic Fantasy RPG, just because the books are so incredibly cheap. Setting that aside, though, I would call attention to Fantastic Heroes and Witchery, which for $30 ish gets you an absolutely massive tome with dozens of race and class options, over 600 spells, and a complete game ruleset. The art quality is adequate (though the layout is quite good), and it gets marked down a little for lacking a bestiary, but I still don't think there's a single book in the OSR that gives more value.

For "best overall package" I would probably vote for Hyperborea, at least if you can buy the players' and referees' books together. Nice hardcover books, with a decent average level of art and presentation, that include a solid AD&D style game, with an interesting setting, maps, bestiary, spellbook. Everything you need, really. Points against them would be that the books run a little pricey, the 3rd edition added in some subpar art, and there are very few published adventures.

In the OSR-adjacent sphere: I would probably call attention to Shadow of the Demon Lord. For a reasonably priced core rulebook, you get a complete game with an innovative class mechanic, tons of player options, GM rules, and a modest but respectable bestiary. The art isn't to my personal taste, but the production value is high.

I also really like the minimalist presentation you see in things like Index Card RPG or the various derivatives of the Black Hack. It's not for everyone, but plain block text with black-and-white ink illustrations works for me. Honestly ICRPG might be the best value-for-money book on my shelf. For I think around $14 print on demand, you get the game rules, races, classes, and gazetteers for multiple settings, a small bestiary, and one of the best GM advice sections in any RPG book.

Quote from: ForgottenF on April 03, 2023, 02:33:20 PM
This might be a hot take, but I think I would actually pick Lamentations of the Flame Princess as having the best art and overall presentation of the OSR. The Rules & Magic book is a thing of beauty, and quite a few of their adventure books have extremely high production values as well.

Agreed, and the quality of the physical book is pretty good. Very good adventures overall, I played Broodmother Skyfortress, Tower of the Stargazer and Better than Any Man.

Quote from: GhostNinja on April 03, 2023, 12:18:08 PM
Barbarians of Lemuria is pretty cool.  Another one is Old School Essentials, currently my go to OSR product

I tried, but I don't like OSE, from my newbie point of view, I found it unnecessary, it offers something new beside the layout?.

We can easily find Basic D&D now days and read it, which is not the same to read D&D 0E haha. For BX, I prefer Lamentation of the Flame Princess or Labyrinth Lord. I read the new edition of LL will be great.

Quote from: migo on April 03, 2023, 02:12:42 PM
Then there are systems that aren't inspired by D&D directly, like ZeFRS, which is a faithful clone of a distinctly different system that is hard to get your hands on.

Honestly I have the bunch of games in my waitlist. ZeFRS with Legend of Steel is one of them, but I know nothing about it. If I'm not wrong is a clone of another game from TRS. Why is hard? It's complex? haha

Quote from: Valhuen on March 31, 2023, 06:47:36 PM
Greetings; first post but long-time lurker.

Has anyone made an exhaustive list of OSR titles ranked by various factors? Honestly art and production are important to me personally to get into a rules set, but content must also be worthwhile.

Some examples of titles I consider excellent in both areas:

ACKS
Adventures in the East Mark (unfortunate there seems to be no move on English translations for remaining sets)
Castles & Crusades
Hackmaster
Beneath the Sunken Catacombs
Against the Darkmaster (D100/MERP clone, so technically not OSR)
Astonishing Swordsmen & Sorcerers of Hyperboria
Swords & Wizardry
Most of the OSR Pundit games
OSE

Lots of games I consider "middling", mainly from poor art and layout but contain decent content such as Adventures Dark & Deep, LotFP, Laybrinth Lord, Beyond the Wall. Some like Basic Fantasy I find middling in both categories.

At any rate any recommendations for hidden gems that hit the high points such as the aforementioned rules? Have tons of OSR digitally, but like to own the physical copies of rules and settings worth purchasing.

Thanks!

Based off that criteria, my list would be, in no particular order:

- LotFP (exception to the no particular order, this is #1)
- OSE
- DCC RPG
- ASSH
- C&C

However, I do not play a lot of OSR games, because I have the originals, but have run all the above with the exception of ASSH.