Quote from: Dapig on March 01, 2023, 10:31:17 PM
Thanks for this.  So what they are saying is that my white kids who game with me
In our basement should shove off?

Hey, Dapig. We had a thread on this a few weeks ago. Here's my transcript of that part of the interview, which started with the acknowledgement that 100% of the D&D management positions were white men.

QuoteJeremy Cobb: Can you identify any higher ranking positions that have been filled by people of racially diverse backgrounds?

Kyle Brink: I think if you look at the credits of our books, you'll see some lead designers there who are not cis men. You will also see a lot of primary authors on sources.

These are people who are coming up through the ranks and proving themselves and earning their respect not because of who they are but because of how they are as professionals - which is the best kind of respect. You don't want to be respected because you're the diversity hire. You want to be respected because you're awesome at your job. And that's happening more and more.

Guys like me, we're leaving the workforce, to be blunt. We're not the face of the hobby anymore. I'm not the majority of this hobby anymore.

And so it's important to me that my team of creators look like my players, and have the lived experience that my players do.

And I think there's been mistakes made in years past where people assumed that D&D players were all, y'know, white dudes in a basement. Which has been a faulty assumption for a lot of years and gets more and more false every day and so in my viewpoint, honestly, guys like me can't leave soon enough for this hobby.

And we owe you good games; we owe you good products. And so we need to make sure that everybody working on it is real good at it. And that means not just hiring but also developing. When we bring people in who are good, we need to empower them - give them more room to run. Give them guidance on what we learned when we were creating stuff so that they can create great stuff too.

I always hire people smarter than me, so that I can get out of their way. That's my approach. So as long as we stay on this trajectory, the face of D&D will literally change.

I bolded the part in question, but you can read the other context.

Mistwell is saying that "guys like me" means members of the 100% white male D&D management, which is on topic for the question. Pundit is saying that "guys like me" means all white male gamers in the hobby, i.e. Brink switched to talk about the gaming public instead of the workforce.


I think debating the exact meaning is pointless, since either way, I think he's just spouting empty corporate words that mean nothing except for spin. I don't think that the 100% white male management is actually racially discriminating against white males. I think they're untrustworthy and just stoking divisiveness.

Quote from: jhkim on March 02, 2023, 01:30:26 PM
... Here's my transcript of that part of the interview, which started with the acknowledgement that 100% of the D&D management positions were white men.

QuoteJeremy Cobb: Can you identify any higher ranking positions that have been filled by people of racially diverse backgrounds?

Kyle Brink: I think if you look at the credits of our books, you'll see some lead designers there who are not cis men. You will also see a lot of primary authors on sources.

These are people who are coming up through the ranks and proving themselves and earning their respect not because of who they are but because of how they are as professionals - which is the best kind of respect. You don't want to be respected because you're the diversity hire. You want to be respected because you're awesome at your job. And that's happening more and more.

Guys like me, we're leaving the workforce, to be blunt. We're not the face of the hobby anymore. I'm not the majority of this hobby anymore.

And so it's important to me that my team of creators look like my players, and have the lived experience that my players do.

And I think there's been mistakes made in years past where people assumed that D&D players were all, y'know, white dudes in a basement. Which has been a faulty assumption for a lot of years and gets more and more false every day and so in my viewpoint, honestly, guys like me can't leave soon enough for this hobby.

And we owe you good games; we owe you good products. And so we need to make sure that everybody working on it is real good at it. And that means not just hiring but also developing. When we bring people in who are good, we need to empower them - give them more room to run. Give them guidance on what we learned when we were creating stuff so that they can create great stuff too.

I always hire people smarter than me, so that I can get out of their way. That's my approach. So as long as we stay on this trajectory, the face of D&D will literally change.

I bolded the part in question, but you can read the other context.

Mistwell is saying that "guys like me" means members of the 100% white male D&D management, which is on topic for the question. Pundit is saying that "guys like me" means all white male gamers in the hobby, i.e. Brink switched to talk about the gaming public instead of the workforce.


I think debating the exact meaning is pointless, since either way, I think he's just spouting empty corporate words that mean nothing except for spin. I don't think that the 100% white male management is actually racially discriminating against white males. I think they're untrustworthy and just stoking divisiveness.

Of course it was empty two-faced virtue signaling.

In a way the argument is pointless, because even if you 100% believe the: "'guys like me' means members of the 100% white male D&D management"  interpretation; that is still not a good look!

Being down with purging all white men from WotC/D&D upper management "for the hobby" is not the rhetorical counter-argument kill shot people think it is...

What is going a bit under reported is this back-handed insult to his customer base:

"We're not the face of the hobby anymore. I'm not the majority of this hobby anymore."

i.e. Kyle Brink telling everyone that he's never been to a gaming con...

Quote from: jhkim on March 02, 2023, 01:30:26 PM

Quote from: Dapig on March 01, 2023, 10:31:17 PM
Thanks for this.  So what they are saying is that my white kids who game with me
In our basement should shove off?

Hey, Dapig. We had a thread on this a few weeks ago. Here's my transcript of that part of the interview, which started with the acknowledgement that 100% of the D&D management positions were white men.

QuoteJeremy Cobb: Can you identify any higher ranking positions that have been filled by people of racially diverse backgrounds?

Kyle Brink: I think if you look at the credits of our books, you'll see some lead designers there who are not cis men. You will also see a lot of primary authors on sources.

These are people who are coming up through the ranks and proving themselves and earning their respect not because of who they are but because of how they are as professionals - which is the best kind of respect. You don't want to be respected because you're the diversity hire. You want to be respected because you're awesome at your job. And that's happening more and more.

Guys like me, we're leaving the workforce, to be blunt. We're not the face of the hobby anymore. I'm not the majority of this hobby anymore.

And so it's important to me that my team of creators look like my players, and have the lived experience that my players do.

And I think there's been mistakes made in years past where people assumed that D&D players were all, y'know, white dudes in a basement. Which has been a faulty assumption for a lot of years and gets more and more false every day and so in my viewpoint, honestly, guys like me can't leave soon enough for this hobby.

And we owe you good games; we owe you good products. And so we need to make sure that everybody working on it is real good at it. And that means not just hiring but also developing. When we bring people in who are good, we need to empower them - give them more room to run. Give them guidance on what we learned when we were creating stuff so that they can create great stuff too.

I always hire people smarter than me, so that I can get out of their way. That's my approach. So as long as we stay on this trajectory, the face of D&D will literally change.

I bolded the part in question, but you can read the other context.

Mistwell is saying that "guys like me" means members of the 100% white male D&D management, which is on topic for the question. Pundit is saying that "guys like me" means all white male gamers in the hobby, i.e. Brink switched to talk about the gaming public instead of the workforce.


I think debating the exact meaning is pointless, since either way, I think he's just spouting empty corporate words that mean nothing except for spin. I don't think that the 100% white male management is actually racially discriminating against white males. I think they're untrustworthy and just stoking divisiveness.

Yeah, Dapig, IF you believe Jhkim's AND Mistwell's interpretation he's not saying you're not welcome to buy Hasbro products, they still want your money! The JUST won't ever hire you or your sons!

That's totally not a racist megacorporation!

Quote from: Lixuniverse on March 01, 2023, 09:27:35 PM

Quote from: Punch and Pie on March 01, 2023, 02:41:58 AM
I've not read any Dark Sun material. Which version is the 'definitive' version to get? Given WOTC's capricious nature, all their 'problematic' titles could be pulled anytime, so I might as well get them while I can.

The Original Box Set is great and more than enough, but it's still 2e, with its goods and bads. If you are down to check it out, I made a full OSR conversion to Old School Essentials for the whole setting.

Genre Rules: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZgTRsZFsWSqrv2KYU2dx4XSJei6LfIuD/view?usp=sharing
DMG: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1g4W5Qmix1h4Eur_Q5DzC5strXOyEMqlc/view?usp=sharing
Psionics: https://drive.google.com/file/d/10GYk4NU1D8va9VjAvyZh7-10GaHuYG2b/view?usp=sharing
Monsters: https://drive.google.com/file/d/11Uvu3cpXbPZ4VRMTpk5NQt2Dmh-S5KT_/view?usp=sharing

Thanks for sharing. Ill try this as soon as i have tome for another campaign

As I posted on another thread, an ambitious individual on Reddit apparently spent 8 years assembling a 5-volume PDF compendium of Dark Sun material, all system-agnostic. It clocks in at 1,300 pages.

https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkSun/comments/11fwm95/dark_sun_grand_compendium_finished/

What an achievement.  Thanks for sharing it!

Quote from: Omega on February 27, 2023, 12:47:53 PM
They still have their sights set on other stuff like Planescape though. That will probably be a complete fuck up.

Good luck doing a decent Planescape, what with the mess they made of the Outer Planes in 5e.

Quote from: Almost_Useless on February 27, 2023, 09:46:14 PM
"Problematic" is just the word people use when they don't like something, but they can't make a substantive criticism.

"Problematic" is what they use when they want to call you racist (sexist, homophobe, etc.), but can't come up with an excuse.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 02, 2023, 02:26:49 PM

Quote from: jhkim on March 02, 2023, 01:30:26 PM

Quote from: Dapig on March 01, 2023, 10:31:17 PM
Thanks for this.  So what they are saying is that my white kids who game with me
In our basement should shove off?

Hey, Dapig. We had a thread on this a few weeks ago. Here's my transcript of that part of the interview, which started with the acknowledgement that 100% of the D&D management positions were white men.

QuoteJeremy Cobb: Can you identify any higher ranking positions that have been filled by people of racially diverse backgrounds?

Kyle Brink: I think if you look at the credits of our books, you'll see some lead designers there who are not cis men. You will also see a lot of primary authors on sources.

These are people who are coming up through the ranks and proving themselves and earning their respect not because of who they are but because of how they are as professionals - which is the best kind of respect. You don't want to be respected because you're the diversity hire. You want to be respected because you're awesome at your job. And that's happening more and more.

Guys like me, we're leaving the workforce, to be blunt. We're not the face of the hobby anymore. I'm not the majority of this hobby anymore.

And so it's important to me that my team of creators look like my players, and have the lived experience that my players do.

And I think there's been mistakes made in years past where people assumed that D&D players were all, y'know, white dudes in a basement. Which has been a faulty assumption for a lot of years and gets more and more false every day and so in my viewpoint, honestly, guys like me can't leave soon enough for this hobby.

And we owe you good games; we owe you good products. And so we need to make sure that everybody working on it is real good at it. And that means not just hiring but also developing. When we bring people in who are good, we need to empower them - give them more room to run. Give them guidance on what we learned when we were creating stuff so that they can create great stuff too.

I always hire people smarter than me, so that I can get out of their way. That's my approach. So as long as we stay on this trajectory, the face of D&D will literally change.

I bolded the part in question, but you can read the other context.

Mistwell is saying that "guys like me" means members of the 100% white male D&D management, which is on topic for the question. Pundit is saying that "guys like me" means all white male gamers in the hobby, i.e. Brink switched to talk about the gaming public instead of the workforce.


I think debating the exact meaning is pointless, since either way, I think he's just spouting empty corporate words that mean nothing except for spin. I don't think that the 100% white male management is actually racially discriminating against white males. I think they're untrustworthy and just stoking divisiveness.

Yeah, Dapig, IF you believe Jhkim's AND Mistwell's interpretation he's not saying you're not welcome to buy Hasbro products, they still want your money! The JUST won't ever hire you or your sons!

That's totally not a racist megacorporation!

I find this nauseating.  They want me out?  Done. 

I mean I won't leave the hobby but I won't buy new products.

Although looking at Harry Potter magic proms and other choice options I would not have bought much anyway. 

I would like to see some cool armored warriors occasionally in art and all I can muster up is tieflings shooting lasers from their freshly licked buttholes!

Omg...may be the beer but I just made myself laugh! 😂

Quote from: Dapig on March 02, 2023, 09:35:34 PM
I find this nauseating.  They want me out?  Done. 

I mean I won't leave the hobby but I won't buy new products.

Although looking at Harry Potter magic proms and other choice options I would not have bought much anyway. 

I would like to see some cool armored warriors occasionally in art and all I can muster up is tieflings shooting lasers from their freshly licked buttholes!

Omg...may be the beer but I just made myself laugh! 😂

You jest, but...

Quote from: Jaeger on March 02, 2023, 10:29:12 PM

You jest, but...

SIR THIS IS CLEARLY A MEDICAL PROCEDURE SIR THIS IS TOTALLY NORMAL SIR FISH DEVILS NEED INSPECTIONS FOR THE GREATER GOOD SIR

Quote from: Jaeger on March 02, 2023, 10:29:12 PM

Quote from: Dapig on March 02, 2023, 09:35:34 PM
I find this nauseating.  They want me out?  Done. 

I mean I won't leave the hobby but I won't buy new products.

Although looking at Harry Potter magic proms and other choice options I would not have bought much anyway. 

I would like to see some cool armored warriors occasionally in art and all I can muster up is tieflings shooting lasers from their freshly licked buttholes!

Omg...may be the beer but I just made myself laugh! 😂

You jest, but...

Quote from: Mad Tom on March 02, 2023, 04:10:26 PM
As I posted on another thread, an ambitious individual on Reddit apparently spent 8 years assembling a 5-volume PDF compendium of Dark Sun material, all system-agnostic. It clocks in at 1,300 pages.

https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkSun/comments/11fwm95/dark_sun_grand_compendium_finished/

That's really impressive, thanks for the link.

It doesn't matter.  The good 2e properties would just be ruined if current WotC tried to make them, it's better for everyone involved if we don't get more travesties like the 5e Spelljammer.  Can you just imagine how badly they'd fuck up Dark Sun or Planescape?

Quote from: Valatar on March 03, 2023, 11:49:30 PM
It doesn't matter.  The good 2e properties would just be ruined if current WotC tried to make them, it's better for everyone involved if we don't get more travesties like the 5e Spelljammer.  Can you just imagine how badly they'd fuck up Dark Sun or Planescape?

Planescape is due at the end of the year.

Quote from: Valatar on March 03, 2023, 11:49:30 PM
It doesn't matter.  The good 2e properties would just be ruined if current WotC tried to make them, it's better for everyone involved if we don't get more travesties like the 5e Spelljammer.  Can you just imagine how badly they'd fuck up Dark Sun or Planescape?

On that note, you've misspelled "transvestites."