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Racist WotC Exec Calls Dark Sun "Problematic"

Started by RPGPundit, February 27, 2023, 08:28:14 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

Ratman_tf

Quote from: Spinachcat on February 28, 2023, 04:28:35 AM
I prefer the original Dark Sun overall, but the 4e Dark Sun books were surprisingly good and looked quite fun. Shame I never got to run it.

I had fun DMing 4th ed Dark Sun. The version benefited from a lot of the clunkiness of 4e getting worked out by then.

I prefer 2nd ed Dark Sun, of course, but 4th ed was a decent version.
The notion of an exclusionary and hostile RPG community is a fever dream of zealots who view all social dynamics through a narrow keyhole of structural oppression.
-Haffrung

oggsmash

 Problematic is the best word EVER for lefty shitbags.  They can toss it out there and let their lefty pals figure out all the problems and use all their bandwidth on that, because most of them would be so concerned they dont know the "main problem" they would just keep coming up with "problems" till they get all their tribe to nod in agreement.  Load of horse shit.  I do like we still have people wanting to run interference for that shit bag though...."He really really meant only THIS guys!!!"  Swap out a few words and those same people would be lighting torches.

THE_Leopold

Is there an alternative product that keeps to the spirit of Dark Sun that can be used in it's stead?
NKL4Lyfe

GhostNinja

I am in the process of writing a setting for use in my D&D game so I don't have to use their crap vanilla setting.

I hadn't thought about adding a region where there was slavery until now.  Now I am thinking about it to give my players to fight against.

Come for my setting WOTC.  I DARE YOU
Ghostninja

Brad

Quote from: Mistwell on February 28, 2023, 12:20:51 AM

Kyle didn't say that. He was referencing his unit at D&D of about 7 executives, not "D&D gamers."

And I know you knew that. We already had the discussion, which you saw and commented on. So this is you willfully lying and not just being mistaken.

People can make conjectures about it of course, but put quotes around it like you just did as if he literally said white guy D&D gamers (the gamers - not the designers) can't leave soon enough for this hobby. That's you lying. It's not a fine distinction, it's not word play, it's not being pedantic, that's you actually directly lying for clicks.

Which makes you no better than they guys you're supposedly fighting, when you resort to lying about what they said to make money from clicks.

How much are they paying you to post this fucking nonsense?
It takes considerable knowledge just to realize the extent of your own ignorance.

jeff37923

Quote from: Brad on February 28, 2023, 10:28:47 AM
Quote from: Mistwell on February 28, 2023, 12:20:51 AM

Kyle didn't say that. He was referencing his unit at D&D of about 7 executives, not "D&D gamers."

And I know you knew that. We already had the discussion, which you saw and commented on. So this is you willfully lying and not just being mistaken.

People can make conjectures about it of course, but put quotes around it like you just did as if he literally said white guy D&D gamers (the gamers - not the designers) can't leave soon enough for this hobby. That's you lying. It's not a fine distinction, it's not word play, it's not being pedantic, that's you actually directly lying for clicks.

Which makes you no better than they guys you're supposedly fighting, when you resort to lying about what they said to make money from clicks.

How much are they paying you to post this fucking nonsense?

Mistwell has been a lying leftist White Knight since before Gamergate. He has huffed so much lefty paint that it has permanently altered his DNA.
"Meh."

weirdguy564

Quote from: THE_Leopold on February 28, 2023, 08:37:11 AM
Is there an alternative product that keeps to the spirit of Dark Sun that can be used in it's stead?

RPG Pundit's own World of the Last Sun supposedly has a bit in the setting that's very Dark Sun-ish. 

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/336819/RPGPundit-Presents-World-of-the-Last-Sun?cPath=126_28809
I'm glad for you if you like the top selling game of the genre.  Me, I like the road less travelled, and will be the player asking we try a game you've never heard of.

SHARK

Quote from: Brad on February 28, 2023, 10:28:47 AM
Quote from: Mistwell on February 28, 2023, 12:20:51 AM

Kyle didn't say that. He was referencing his unit at D&D of about 7 executives, not "D&D gamers."

And I know you knew that. We already had the discussion, which you saw and commented on. So this is you willfully lying and not just being mistaken.

People can make conjectures about it of course, but put quotes around it like you just did as if he literally said white guy D&D gamers (the gamers - not the designers) can't leave soon enough for this hobby. That's you lying. It's not a fine distinction, it's not word play, it's not being pedantic, that's you actually directly lying for clicks.

Which makes you no better than they guys you're supposedly fighting, when you resort to lying about what they said to make money from clicks.

How much are they paying you to post this fucking nonsense?

Greetings!

*LAUGHING* So funny, Brad! It' weird how Mistwell always somehow does these white-knighting antics defending WOTC, isn't it? Over and over again, WOTC makes terrible modules, game books, or has PR dumpster fires--and every time, Mistwell is waving his flag and defending them.

I think Mistwell needs to go to a proper struggle session,-- for being on the "Wrong Side of History." ;D

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
"It is the Marine Corps that will strip away the façade so easily confused with self. It is the Corps that will offer the pain needed to buy the truth. And at last, each will own the privilege of looking inside himself  to discover what truly resides there. Comfort is an illusion. A false security b

Thorn Drumheller

Good vid pundit. I agree, I don't know why people keep giving WotC money and expect things to be different.

Be happy WotC isn't going to redo Dark Sun.

There really does not need to be an official new release of the setting.

WotC does not have one single good designer on staff or work for hire. They are all simply diversity hires. They can't design.
Member in good standing of COSM.

Spinachcat

#24
Quote from: THE_Leopold on February 28, 2023, 08:37:11 AMIs there an alternative product that keeps to the spirit of Dark Sun that can be used in it's stead?

I've been working on my own version of Dark Sun for a few years, but I am more focused on "desert dungeons" than the slavery/freedom/survival aspects of the original.

I do have slavers and slaves...the Undead. Guess who keeps working, never revolts and doesn't ever need water?

If you googlefu Dark Sun, you'll find a metric ton of fanmade stuff and lots of it is quite good. It would not be rocket science to cull the web, revamp the TSR books and then produce an interesting OGL version.

EDIT: But really, if anyone wants to play Dark Sun, the original TSR stuff is so great and 90% ready to rock for any OSR or 5e game.

Theory of Games

Yeah, Dark Sun is kinda WAITAMINNIT  :o :o :o

1. Drow are in the Dumb & Dumber 5e Monster Manual

2. Drow are in that tome described as capturing humans from Disneyland and taking them home for some delicious torture-porn & Netflix

But Gnome-eating Halflings are a problem? Can I go next:

"WoTC exec blasts Al-Qadim setting as racist and offensive to Taliban soldiers!"

"WoTC exec decries Lankhmar characters' Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser as homophobic caricatures!"

"WoTC exec denounces City State of the Invincible Warlord as fascist alt-right Nazi-porn!"

I don't know exactly who's directing this movie, but I can write for it.
TTRPGs are just games. Friends are forever.

Jam The MF

Quote from: Thorn Drumheller on February 28, 2023, 07:57:08 PM
Good vid pundit. I agree, I don't know why people keep giving WotC money and expect things to be different.

Be happy WotC isn't going to redo Dark Sun.

There really does not need to be an official new release of the setting.

WotC does not have one single good designer on staff or work for hire. They are all simply diversity hires. They can't design.

Yes.  Be happy that WOTC won't wokify Dark Sun.
Let the Dice, Decide the Outcome.  Accept the Results.

Punch and Pie

#27
There's two Dark Sun titles on Drivethru, "Dark Sun Boxed Set (2e)" https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/17169/Dark-Sun-Boxed-Set-2e and "Dark Sun Campaign Setting (Expanded and Revised Edition) (2e)" https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/17203/Dark-Sun-Campaign-Setting-Expanded-and-Revised-Edition-2e.

I've not read any Dark Sun material. Which version is the 'definitive' version to get? Given WOTC's capricious nature, all their 'problematic' titles could be pulled anytime, so I might as well get them while I can.

Hmmm....even Drivethru could cave anytime to the scolds and voluntarily pull them themselves.

WOTC and Drivethru's incestuously hypocritical wink-and-nod can only last so long, at least until a problematic title's sales drop into the single digits per week. For example, once they've bled Oriental Adventures dry, they'll piously announce its removal 'for the good of humanity'. No doubt they'll fly Daniel Kwan out to stream live his shovelling copies into a roaring dumpster fire behind their warehouse, while hawking "KWAN WAS RIGHT" t-shirts in their merch store.

S'mon

Quote from: Punch and Pie on March 01, 2023, 02:41:58 AM
There's two Dark Sun titles on Drivethru, "Dark Sun Boxed Set (2e)" https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/17169/Dark-Sun-Boxed-Set-2e and "Dark Sun Campaign Setting (Expanded and Revised Edition) (2e)" https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/17203/Dark-Sun-Campaign-Setting-Expanded-and-Revised-Edition-2e.

I've not read any Dark Sun material. Which version is the 'definitive' version to get?

Dark Sun was notorious for getting worse over time as it followed the novels, so earlier the better, even more than Forgotten Realms.
Shadowdark Wilderlands (Fridays 6pm UK/1pm EST)  https://smons.blogspot.com/2024/08/shadowdark.html

Ratman_tf

Quote from: Punch and Pie on March 01, 2023, 02:41:58 AM
There's two Dark Sun titles on Drivethru, "Dark Sun Boxed Set (2e)" https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/17169/Dark-Sun-Boxed-Set-2e and "Dark Sun Campaign Setting (Expanded and Revised Edition) (2e)" https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/17203/Dark-Sun-Campaign-Setting-Expanded-and-Revised-Edition-2e.

I've not read any Dark Sun material. Which version is the 'definitive' version to get? Given WOTC's capricious nature, all their 'problematic' titles could be pulled anytime, so I might as well get them while I can.

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/17169/Dark-Sun-Boxed-Set-2e is the original version of the setting. The expansion Dragon Kings

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/17183/Dragon-Kings-2e

is not necessary, but neat in understanding why there's only one Dragon in Tyr, and expands the game to 30th level.

The "Expanded and Revised" edition updated the metaplot with details from the novels. And arguably killed Dark Sun as a setting. Do not reccomend.

The notion of an exclusionary and hostile RPG community is a fever dream of zealots who view all social dynamics through a narrow keyhole of structural oppression.
-Haffrung