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Pen & Paper Roleplaying Central => Pen and Paper Roleplaying Games (RPGs) Discussion => Topic started by: Spike on September 22, 2014, 08:10:44 PM

Title: Quicky fixes to old problem games
Post by: Spike on September 22, 2014, 08:10:44 PM
I honor of the giant and long running Exalted 3e thread I was struck that the sorts of things that should be done, won't be... and yet it is simple to state. Exalted is not the only one, of course.

So here then is a thread to express those simple changes that might improve any venerable institution of a game.

Exalted:  Rather than have five versions of Solars, Dragon Blooded et al, break the splats down into the core book as various exalts with distinct areas of expertise.  Thus instead of a complex write up of 'Dawn Caste' you just have 'Solar', with the caste being a relatively minor detail in creation (as it winds up being in practice...), with the next entry being a different type of Exalt.   This allows for a more unified Charm system as well and (shocking!) balancing between the types of Solars based on access to Charms, Power Level, drawbacks and Exalt Specific abilities.   For example: Solars can still be the most powerful in raw terms (aside from all the other solar-level Exalts, such as Abyssals...), with the widest access to charms, but they also would have the biggest penalty in Limits and, perhaps, a big gaping lack of distinct speciality abilities (such as Sidereal Martial Arts/Divination, or the Elemental and Team powers of the DBs...).

Rifts:  Strip out R.C.C from O.C.C., allowing for special cases, like dragon Hatchlings (who, really, haven't had a chance to learn a career...).  If someone wants to play a Kwarla Headhunter, let them.  Also: Establish a more unified scale for weapon damages. This way you don't see splat books with guns that break the world, while another (new west!) thinks a laser scalpel is hot shit.  As an additional aside, vehicle mounted heavy weapons should hit harder than small arms.   A more personal, less universal fix would be to tinker with the scaling of SDC/MDC, but I can see how that might actually break the appeal of the setting to a significant portion of the fanbase.

Dark Heresy and Kin: Seriously: Just put Talents on a diet.  Maybe half as many as currently or something.  I can see putting in some extra work to streamline combat a bit, at least in presentation. Currently there is nothing you can't do in other, better regarded, rule sets but it still is chunky and crufty and often hard to follow.

There, that should be enough to inspire ya.
Title: Quicky fixes to old problem games
Post by: Skywalker on September 22, 2014, 08:45:16 PM
Quote from: Spike;788207Exalted:  Rather than have five versions of Solars, Dragon Blooded et al, break the splats down into the core book as various exalts with distinct areas of expertise.

Originally Exalted was envisaged as only including Dragon Blooded Exalted i.e. elemental based exaltation.
Title: Quicky fixes to old problem games
Post by: Spike on September 22, 2014, 08:46:15 PM
Which is fascinating, but utterly missing the point.  In penance I expect you to 'quick fix' at least three games in your next post.
Title: Quicky fixes to old problem games
Post by: The Butcher on September 23, 2014, 12:13:39 AM
Seriously, Rifts fixes should be a thread of its own. No wait, make that a forum of its own.

Quote from: Spike;788207Rifts:  Strip out R.C.C from O.C.C., allowing for special cases, like dragon Hatchlings (who, really, haven't had a chance to learn a career...).  If someone wants to play a Kwarla Headhunter, let them.

But that's pretty much how things work already, as far as I can tell (bear In mind that I haven't bought a Rifts book in 15+ years). R.C.C.s mostly reflect race-specific training, with lots of races that don't really have a R.C.C. of their own.

Quote from: Spike;788207Also: Establish a more unified scale for weapon damages. This way you don't see splat books with guns that break the world, while another (new west!) thinks a laser scalpel is hot shit.  As an additional aside, vehicle mounted heavy weapons should hit harder than small arms.  

Now there's an idea! Introduce "basic stats" (e.g. basic energy rifle, 3d6 M.D., 2000' range) and add variations (e.g. particle beam weapons: +X damage, -Y range, etc.).

Quote from: Spike;788207A more personal, less universal fix would be to tinker with the scaling of SDC/MDC, but I can see how that might actually break the appeal of the setting to a significant portion of the fanbase.

I'm currently inclined to convert MDC to SDC on a 1:10 rate and assign MDC structures and beings some sort of damage reduction, or just make mega-damage an adimensional quality, like heavy weapons/heavy armor in Savage Worlds.
Title: Quicky fixes to old problem games
Post by: TheShadow on September 23, 2014, 12:54:18 AM
BRP too gritty? Double hit points and take away hit locations/major wounds.
Title: Quicky fixes to old problem games
Post by: Simlasa on September 23, 2014, 01:13:29 AM
Quote from: The_Shadow;788237BRP too gritty? Double hit points and take away hit locations/major wounds.
Is BRP a 'problem game' now? Or is this thread just about tweaking any/every system to match personal tastes?
Anyway, similar options are already mentioned in the BRP corebook.
Title: Quicky fixes to old problem games
Post by: Bloody Stupid Johnson on September 23, 2014, 09:39:59 PM
Savage Worlds - the math thing (you know, where lower stats sometimes have higher odds at a particular target number): when a dice roll maxes and rerolls, the reroll is at -1.
Title: Quicky fixes to old problem games
Post by: Simlasa on September 23, 2014, 10:17:52 PM
Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;788309when a dice roll maxes and rerolls, the reroll is at -1.
Would that be cumulative? Roll d4 (4), Roll d4 (4-1), Roll d4 (4-2), etc?
Title: Quicky fixes to old problem games
Post by: Spinachcat on September 24, 2014, 01:40:54 AM
I am hoping that the new Breachworld RPG "fixes" Rifts for me.

I just got the rough draft PDF from the Kickstarter campaign. I'll be putting the game through its paces at our October RPG meetup at Game Empire in Pasadena. I'll post about it afterwards.
Title: Quicky fixes to old problem games
Post by: Bloody Stupid Johnson on September 24, 2014, 02:25:18 AM
Quote from: Simlasa;788313Would that be cumulative? Roll d4 (4), Roll d4 (4-1), Roll d4 (4-2), etc?
Just doing it once should be enough to get the probabilities over the humps as it were. You could do that if you wanted to, however.
Title: Quicky fixes to old problem games
Post by: jibbajibba on September 24, 2014, 03:15:47 AM
Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;788336Just doing it once should be enough to get the probabilities over the humps as it were. You could do that if you wanted to, however.

Can't you just say d4's can't explode twice ?

and how can you use the cumulative penalty if you subtract 1? will you still explode on 4 even though its now a 3/2/1 ? If you can't then a cumulative explosion is moot

Personally I would just remove d4 from all games. I hate d4. They don't really roll, ceretainly not pleasingly, they arn't easy to read from across the table and they hurt when you stand on them in bare feet. DEATH to the D4!!!!!
Title: Quicky fixes to old problem games
Post by: Bloody Stupid Johnson on September 24, 2014, 06:01:39 AM
Quote from: jibbajibba;788338Can't you just say d4's can't explode twice ?

and how can you use the cumulative penalty if you subtract 1? will you still explode on 4 even though its now a 3/2/1 ? If you can't then a cumulative explosion is moot

Personally I would just remove d4 from all games. I hate d4. They don't really roll, ceretainly not pleasingly, they arn't easy to read from across the table and they hurt when you stand on them in bare feet. DEATH to the D4!!!!!

Oops I seem to have jacked the thread :o
I hate d100s myself. They never stop rolling, and on mine the numbers inside the thing somehow don't line up with facets so I can never tell what I rolled.:) And if you're using 2d10 then you need two dice and people sometimes "forget" to designate which is the tens before rolling...

Anyway, with Savage Worlds the problem with lower dice sometimes having a higher percentage is most well-known for d4-vs.-d6, which I believe is the highest discrepancy at about 2% (18.75% vs. 16.67%) but affects a couple of other numbers as well, e.g. d6/d8 vs. TN 8 as well (The d6 has a 1-in-6 chance of exploding then a 5-in-6 chance of beating the remaining target number so 13.89%, whereas the d8 has a 1-in-8 chance or 12.5%) and d8/d10 vs. TN 10 (10.93% vs. 10%).
So really the -1 rule should be on all rolls, just whenever you get a maximum then you reroll but at -1.
Title: Quicky fixes to old problem games
Post by: Spike on September 24, 2014, 03:39:14 PM
I'll try to put it back on track, BSJ...

D&D 3.*:  When it comes to feats, instead of chains of prerequisite feats that are often rather bland and/or useless, have every feat (such as two weapon fighting, for example) be self contained and self balancing to levels. This accomplishes a few things, such as making ever feat choice meaningful, reducing bloat and making 'builds' much less labor intensive.

I've got a notional one for pathfinder, but a: Its a D&D 3 clone, and b: I've only played with the Beta myself.