Some of you may know of HeroQuest, the rather thespy rpg put out to cover Glorantha, the old RuneQuest game world. Many people liked the look of HQ but had no interest in Glorantha, and have run games of Firefly, or Dark Ages Britain with the same rules.

But of course it's easier to do that if you've got a generic version of them with all the setting stuff stripped out. And so they came up with the idea of QuestWorlds, the generic HeroQuest. For reasons I don't know, the original team working on it for a year or more stopped working on it. Well, now it seems that Robin Laws will be working on it instead!

Anyone who knows Robin's Laws of Good Gamemastering or any of his other writing has got to think this is a good thing. What particular impressed me was,

Quote from: Robin D. LawsMy design watchwords for the project are as follows:

* Simple, simple, simple
* Better, clearer explanations
* Examples, examples, examples

By "better, clearer explanations" I mean detailed, plain language showing you how to think within the game's narrative paradigm--without ever resorting to the word "paradigm."

He was asking for suggestions. The first thing I asked for was for the rules, game play and GM advice, and game designer's notes to be kept separate, to make it easier for gamers to pick and choose which bits they want to use and which they don't...

As I said on rpg.net: Best news in forever. Minus the hyperbole, I still love the idea. I will never understand Glorantha, but the HQ rules look like pure gold.

I love the chargen, and perhaps QW will explain to me just what Extended Contests(?) actually are, or precisely how to run them. I don't recall what it was that I didn't get, but I remember spending hours trying to make sense of what Holmes & Edwards were saying about them on the Forge AND trying to separate ideological chaff from wheat, and it wasn't working.

I have a homebrewed version of Heroquest that leaves out the action points and just has you do one die of damage to the other guy's pool per success level. It was a pretty sweet way to avoid the bidding system, which I thought was neat at first but then decided I don't really like.

Quote from: Pierce InverarityI don't recall what it was that I didn't get, but I remember spending hours trying to make sense of what Holmes & Edwards were saying about them on the Forge AND trying to separate ideological chaff from wheat, and it wasn't working.

Oh, God.  Ever had one of those moments where someone else is going on and on about one of your favorite things ever, and is being such a goob that they're making you embarrassed to admit liking it yourself? The Forge discussions on HQ often did the game no favors.

Anyway, yeah, weird that the original iteration of the book got sidelined the way that it did, but great news that Robin is taking the helm.

!i!

Robin Laws has written a lot of great stuff.  He's also written some overhyped stuff and seems To Do No Wrong according to many fans.

I'll wait and see (though I certainly hope it rocks).

Quote from: C.W.RichesonRobin Laws has written a lot of great stuff.  He's also written some overhyped stuff and seems To Do No Wrong according to many fans.

Yeah, I think I'm even less enthusiastic than you are. I've played all his RPGs (except GUMSHOE) and they are underwhelming to say the least. There's usually an interesting design component or two that you can isolate but the end result is nothing to write home about.

Also, HeroWars remains one of the worse finished RPG product I ever bought.

Quote from: Consonant DudeAlso, HeroWars remains one of the worse finished RPG product I ever bought.

Which, in the interest of aiming the blame toward the correct target, was none of Robin's fault.  The early Issaries crew have to take it on the nose for the production fumble, not the designer.

!i!

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaWhich, in the interest of aiming the blame toward the correct target, was none of Robin's fault.  The early Issaries crew have to take it on the nose for the production fumble, not the designer.

It was none of his fault?

Yeah right.

Well, you can read Greg Stafford's account of events at http://www.chimera.info/daedalus/articles/fall2003/stafford_interview.html

Looks like Laws was hired to design the system based on conversations with Stafford expressing what he wanted, but Stafford took it on himself to "develop" it and produce the final draft/layout, and ran out of operating funds in the process.

Quote from: Consonant DudeIt was none of his fault?

Yeah right.

So, are you trying to pick a fight by taking my statement at absolute literal face value, or do you possess some key piece of knowledge that will tip the scales against him?

The real fumble in Hero Wars was in the slipshod production. Laws designed the system, not the development, layout, production, and distribution.

If you don't know what you're talking about, your best instincts should be to not say anything.

!i!

Wel, whoever's fault it was, in general people learn from their mistakes. I hapen to think that 2nd and 3rd editions are usually better-organised than 1st editions. They may not have better ideas or rules, but their layout and organisation are usually better. There are notable exceptions for editions done in a bit of a rush (like Ars Magica 4th, or Traveller 4th). Given that this project has already been through on development team, it doesn't seem like they're in a rush. So I'm both hopeful and optimistic.

Thanks for the link, Eliot--that's a great interview.

Meanwhile, I don't understand the Laws hate. Everything I've read by him so far has been very good to awesome--Dying Earth, HQ, Robin's Laws, his chapter in Over the Edge, some of his "Page XX" columns.

If people want to point at naked Emperors, there are far more plausible candidates around.

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaSo, are you trying to pick a fight by taking my statement at absolute literal face value, or do you possess some key piece of knowledge that will tip the scales against him?

I could ask you the same.

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaIf you don't know what you're talking about, your best instincts should be to not say anything.

Indeed. So now would be the time for you to shut the fuck up.

HeroWars was a piece of crap and a lot of it had to do with Robin overextending himself on three different fantasy RPGs. They all ended up flawed and all three would have gone to the crapper but the Glorantha brand has a rather strong following.

You can blame the team as much as you want but the writing and design wasn't ready. It's not like they did miracles with HeroQuest either. For all the hype around this guy, he has failed to write a single great roleplaying game.

I really like HeroWars.

All right, I don't think we played it 'properly', as intended like (I think theres supposed to be some kind of magic system, but yknow, ignoring it and making everything traits worked well enough), but its still great stuff.

Thanks for the heads up, I blogged about it.