Howdy  -

Not sure if this is the place for something like this, but I wanted to get some thoughts from the forums here.

So I made a game. The art's done, writing is done, and layout is almost complete. The theme/content is different than my native culture. I approached a translator about giving it the once over to make sure there's no misspellings, etc. I was told that since it's outside of my native culture, and the only way I can avoid the backlash of today's environment is perhaps just not to sell it. Problem is, I've spent a lot of time and hard work on this.

Do I, A) pay the translator hundreds of dollars to point out any faux pas and put it out anyways? B) Scrap all the hard work, time, and money that I've put into it? or C) Some other option yet to be determined?

How do existing publishers handle something like this when publishing material outside of their native culture? (or don't they...)

Thanks in advance

Publish under an alter ego/pseudonym.

Translator? To what? You could always find people that speak the language to fix misspellings and such but nothing else.

What they are telling you is you need to pay for someone with magic blood (that probably knows less about the culture than you that did some research) to point out all the reasons your work is problematic, they'll find plenty, then edit out that until it's not what you wanted to do. Now you're "safe" from the mob (not really, WotC pays the protection racket money and they still go after them).

IMHO fix spelling errors and nothing else, publish as is, when the mob comes after you ignore or mock them, link here to the controversy so we can also mock them, ride the controversy to sales.

Third option find someone with the magic blood that doesn't buy the mob's narrative, in exchange for a copy of your product ask them to allow you to cite them as consultants.

I would go with option two but those are all your options.

Quote from: aztecman on May 01, 2023, 07:35:42 PM
I approached a translator about giving it the once over to make sure there's no misspellings, etc. I was told that since it's outside of my native culture, and the only way I can avoid the backlash of today's environment is perhaps just not to sell it. Problem is, I've spent a lot of time and hard work on this.

Do I, A) pay the translator hundreds of dollars to point out any faux pas and put it out anyways? B) Scrap all the hard work, time, and money that I've put into it? or C) Some other option yet to be determined?

I think you need a different translator!

Pundit made & sold Arrows of Indra based on Indian myth. Some companies, usually large companies, do pay 'Sensitivity Readers' these days for the blessing of the anointed/kickbacks to avoid trouble, but it's hardly universal.

Quote from: S'mon on May 01, 2023, 07:51:55 PM

Quote from: aztecman on May 01, 2023, 07:35:42 PM
I approached a translator about giving it the once over to make sure there's no misspellings, etc. I was told that since it's outside of my native culture, and the only way I can avoid the backlash of today's environment is perhaps just not to sell it. Problem is, I've spent a lot of time and hard work on this.

Do I, A) pay the translator hundreds of dollars to point out any faux pas and put it out anyways? B) Scrap all the hard work, time, and money that I've put into it? or C) Some other option yet to be determined?

I think you need a different translator!

Pundit made & sold Arrows of Indra based on Indian myth. Some companies, usually large companies, do pay 'Sensitivity Readers' these days for the blessing of the anointed/kickbacks to avoid trouble, but it's hardly universal.

Agreed! If it's Spanish I'm cheap and not an activist.

Quote from: aztecman on May 01, 2023, 07:35:42 PMI was told that since it's outside of my native culture, and the only way I can avoid the backlash of today's environment is perhaps just not to sell it. Problem is, I've spent a lot of time and hard work on this.

Did you just return from a space mission/wake from a coma? Because this "cultural appropriation" BS has been a sacred tenet of the wokes for at least 7-10 years now.

It doesn't bother me a jot what you write about, and most cultures actually LIKE a foreigner writing about their homeland, but how on Earth did you not know this was a thing in publishing in 2023?

Quote from: aztecman on May 01, 2023, 07:35:42 PM
Do I, A) pay the translator hundreds of dollars to point out any faux pas and put it out anyways? B) Scrap all the hard work, time, and money that I've put into it? or C) Some other option yet to be determined?

What culture is it? Offhand, I'd say release a free preview version of the game, and contact some gamers from that culture, and get their reactions. You don't have to do whatever they say, but you should keep an open mind and take their feedback seriously.

I'm not a commercial publisher, but the setting I've been developing for my current game also isn't my own. (I'm Korean-American, and the setting is pre-Columbian Incan.) I have tried searching for Peruvian or especially Quechuan-speaking tabletop gamers, but I haven't turned up anything.

Thanks for the quick reply folks -

No, I haven't be living under a rock, I am well aware of the current stream of thought in the industry today. I was just stating what the translator had mentioned to me. It's Asian themed (loosely Chinese themed). It's my own world, but it has that flavor. If I could find a non bias translator that would be great. Not really a translator per se, as I am not looking to translate it. I was just wanting to make sure any of my faux pas were that overly egregious. It's at the point where I want people to look at it - constructive criticism is fine. It's difficult as you can hand any one anything now days and some one is bound not to like it, for what ever reason. This product is the "preview" for the full game. It's more of a quick start adventure to see if theres any legs. It's about 22 pages and the main rulebook is about ~155+

Quote from: aztecman on May 01, 2023, 08:10:25 PM
Thanks for the quick reply folks -

No, I haven't be living under a rock, I am well aware of the current stream of thought in the industry today. I was just stating what the translator had mentioned to me. It's Asian themed (loosely Chinese themed). It's my own world, but it has that flavor. If I could find a non bias translator that would be great. Not really a translator per se, as I am not looking to translate it. I was just wanting to make sure any of my faux pas were that overly egregious. It's at the point where I want people to look at it - constructive criticism is fine. It's difficult as you can hand any one anything now days and some one is bound not to like it, for what ever reason. This product is the "preview" for the full game. It's more of a quick start adventure to see if theres any legs. It's about 22 pages and the main rulebook is about ~155+

Like I said, pay no mind to the mob, they just want to force you to pay protection money.

Do not listen to Jhkim, he kinda/sorta agrees with them even if he denies it (you can tell by his comment above).

The people likely to be offended are going to find something to be offended because that's what they do. I doubt ANYONE in China is going to buy your game, so it's going to be Americans (that have never set foot on China) complaining about it because you don't have the magic blood.

Quote from: jhkim on May 01, 2023, 07:57:41 PM

Quote from: aztecman on May 01, 2023, 07:35:42 PM
Do I, A) pay the translator hundreds of dollars to point out any faux pas and put it out anyways? B) Scrap all the hard work, time, and money that I've put into it? or C) Some other option yet to be determined?

What culture is it? Offhand, I'd say release a free preview version of the game, and contact some gamers from that culture, and get their reactions. You don't have to do whatever they say, but you should keep an open mind and take their feedback seriously.

I'm not a commercial publisher, but the setting I've been developing for my current game also isn't my own. (I'm Korean-American, and the setting is pre-Columbian Incan.) I have tried searching for Peruvian or especially Quechuan-speaking tabletop gamers, but I haven't turned up anything.

Assuming you actually researched the culture, you probably know more about it than 99% of people with vague descendance. But gotta get that grifter stamp of approval for your conscience.

Quote from: aztecman on May 01, 2023, 08:10:25 PM
I was just stating what the translator had mentioned to me. It's Asian themed (loosely Chinese themed). It's my own world, but it has that flavor. If I could find a non bias translator that would be great. Not really a translator per se, as I am not looking to translate it. I was just wanting to make sure any of my faux pas were that overly egregious. It's at the point where I want people to look at it - constructive criticism is fine. It's difficult as you can hand any one anything now days and some one is bound not to like it, for what ever reason. This product is the "preview" for the full game. It's more of a quick start adventure to see if theres any legs. It's about 22 pages and the main rulebook is about ~155+

OK, well, it's easy to find Chinese or Chinese-American gamers. My nephew is a role-player and living in Taiwan currently. I can pass along the preview to him and see if his gaming group might be interested.

I personally don't give a damn about offending people -- but if you want this to be a commercial product, then that can be a factor. There is no pleasing everyone, as you say, but some things will go over better than others.

More importantly, it's good to be informed about the culture you're using for your game, particularly if it's something you're making a major investment of time, creativity, and money in.

It's not specifically based on China, but there is that flavor to it. I am not worried so much about offending people - as people have been offended about some thing or another since the beginning of time. I speak Japanese myself and have a strong tie to Japan, but the game doesn't have the Japanese influence. (well, a tiny bit in there) I've published for my game before about 10 years ago. It was in retail and I even had some international distribution. Heck even WOTC had it in their retail shops back in the day. I even saw copies in various Japan hobby shops around that time too. Sadly, that was a different time and people knew how to laugh and not get so bent out of shape about things. Parody was actually funny back then. Now, not so much it seems - which is unfortunate.

*Also, it's based on American Pop culture to some degree. Most folks in Asia won't get the reference. Surprisingly, most of my play testers are from the Philippines. They don't get all the references, but they like style of the original game. The countries that immediately get the references are the US and the UK. The only difference is this version is the RPG version of the game. I've spent a lot of work to get this ready for release, but if it gets a lot of eyeballs on it, there is a high possibility of some one being offended. (if I was a betting man that is...)

I'd be curious as to what the Pundit would say about it?

Quote from: aztecman on May 01, 2023, 08:56:25 PM
It's not specifically based on China, but there is that flavor to it. I am not worried so much about offending people - as people have been offended about some thing or another since the beginning of time. I speak Japanese myself and have a strong tie to Japan, but the game doesn't have the Japanese influence. (well, a tiny bit in there) I've published for my game before about 10 years ago. It was in retail and I even had some international distribution. Heck even WOTC had it in their retail shops back in the day. I even saw copies in various Japan hobby shops around that time too. Sadly, that was a different time and people knew how to laugh and not get so bent out of shape about things. Parody was actually funny back then. Now, not so much it seems - which is unfortunate.

*Also, it's based on American Pop culture to some degree. Most folks in Asia won't get the reference. Surprisingly, most of my play testers are from the Philippines. They don't get all the references, but they like style of the original game. The countries that immediately get the references are the US and the UK. The only difference is this version is the RPG version of the game. I've spent a lot of work to get this ready for release, but if it gets a lot of eyeballs on it, there is a high possibility of some one being offended. (if I was a betting man that is...)

I'd be curious as to what the Pundit would say about it?

What I have already told you, but don't take my word for it.

Quote from: Grognard GM on May 01, 2023, 08:41:11 PM

Quote from: jhkim on May 01, 2023, 07:57:41 PM

Quote from: aztecman on May 01, 2023, 07:35:42 PM
Do I, A) pay the translator hundreds of dollars to point out any faux pas and put it out anyways? B) Scrap all the hard work, time, and money that I've put into it? or C) Some other option yet to be determined?

What culture is it? Offhand, I'd say release a free preview version of the game, and contact some gamers from that culture, and get their reactions. You don't have to do whatever they say, but you should keep an open mind and take their feedback seriously.

I'm not a commercial publisher, but the setting I've been developing for my current game also isn't my own. (I'm Korean-American, and the setting is pre-Columbian Incan.) I have tried searching for Peruvian or especially Quechuan-speaking tabletop gamers, but I haven't turned up anything.

Assuming you actually researched the culture, you probably know more about it than 99% of people with vague descendance. But gotta get that grifter stamp of approval for your conscience.

Not even the magic blood protects you provided you don't agree with the wokesters. Just wait till they learn about my Mayan inspired game and watch them blow a gasket even if I'm Maya myself. Some white wahmen will be offended in the behalf of other Mayas and will tell me I don't speak for all Mayas (but she obviously does).

Loves it. "Got Blood Magic?"

Remember, Karen, Soyjak, and the Tumblrinas have the blessing of self-righteousness to tell everyone how to feel about things. It's their ordained power, received from on high as an 'influencer'. I am also sure somewhere there was a blood magic sacrifice of tofu, bone broth, or hoppy beer involved, too. Don't ask me how I know.  /sips hoppy bone broth with tofu-boba through a stainless steel straw