Question (3-part): Free extra online content and customer support; do you feel these should be considered as part of a product for the purposes of evaluation? Under some qualifications and conditions? If so which?

Quote from: blakkieQuestion (3-part): Free extra online content and customer support; do you feel these should be considered as part of a product for the purposes of evaluation? Under some qualifications and conditions? If so which?

That's a toughie.  Because the period of eligibility for a product submitted to the ENnies spans a whole year, allowing extra online content would not be fair to the products which were created towards the latter end of the period.  A product created in July of last year, for example, would have plenty of time to create and post errata and other extras; while a product published this May would not.  And according to ENnies submission rules, the May-published product is not elligible to hold off until the following year.  However, if the company re-published the product within the same elligibility time-period and included all of the corrections/extra content, they could certainly submit that product to the ENnies instead.  

However, the above would only apply (to me) to books, .pdfs, and other published products.  The ENnies also evaluate game-related websites and software accessories.  In products such as these which are so intrinsically tied to a computer, I'd allow patches/on-line support that was available at the time the product was submitted for judging.

Quote from: blakkieQuestion (3-part): Free extra online content and customer support; do you feel these should be considered as part of a product for the purposes of evaluation? Under some qualifications and conditions? If so which?

In years past there has been a category for free content so that would go there.  Customer support I imagine would be part of the Best Publisher category.  These type of things are good for the product but it depends on if the book needs them and in what for m it receives them.

Quote from: James McMurrayWhich RPG would you recommend to your mother, and why?

Macho Women with Guns, my mom was tough chick in her younger days. She had bikers for boy friends and got into more fights then them. This would give her a chuckle.

Quote from: blakkieQuestion (3-part): Free extra online content and customer support; do you feel these should be considered as part of a product for the purposes of evaluation? Under some qualifications and conditions? If so which?

I think that when judging product, only what is between the covers should be considered.

Free content is customer service/support element, that should be taken into account when choosing "best publisher" and/or if there is an award for best free product.

Quote from: McrowI think that when judging product, only what is between the covers should be considered.

What about best cover art?  

Quote from: XathWhat about best cover art?  

:ponder: , yes.:keke:

Quote from: blakkieQuestion (3-part): Free extra online content and customer support; do you feel these should be considered as part of a product for the purposes of evaluation? Under some qualifications and conditions? If so which?

Yes. If a PDF can be considered then I don't see why web content should be overlooked. The amount of "shine" it adds to the product when I'm judging would be based mostly on ease of access and usefulness.

Q:
What´s your opinion on Palladiumbooks products, like Rifts.

Quote from: SettembriniQ:
What´s your opinion on Palladiumbooks products, like Rifts.

I played TMNT a bit in high school. I thought my octopus martial artist was a blast...I didn't even mind the 8 hours it took to build him.

I've tried a few other Palladium games since then...and I can't get over the loud clunking noise the system makes when I try to drive it.

I'd love to see a rules-neutral RIFTS sourcebook. That would be worth a look.

Quote from: blakkieQuestion (3-part): Free extra online content and customer support; do you feel these should be considered as part of a product for the purposes of evaluation? Under some qualifications and conditions? If so which?

If the online service is essential to the product, then, yes, I would include it in my evaluation of the product.  A good example is Dundjinni - the online support and resources are key to its expandability and usability.

Hi, I'm late to the party, but at least that means I can try to answer all the questions at once.

Which do you prefer, Amber or Nobilis, and why?

Sorry, I've only played and read Amber, so I cannot answer this question fairly.

Which do you prefer, nWoD or D&D 3.5, and why?

D&D 3.5 – partly because I (subjectively) enjoy it more, but also because I think D&D 3.5 delivers what it does best (killing things and taking their stuff) very well, while also offering support for different styles of play. I think the ground nWoD covers is being served better by a lot of smaller-press games.

Do sales figures reflect quality, why or why not?

Sales figures reflect popularity and good marketing more than they reflect quality. I think that longevity of sales is a better indicator, but still isn't very good.

How do you feel about Wizards of the Coast abstaining from entering products?

If they had entered, they would have provided good competition without being certain to win everything. Not having them there doesn't diminish the standard of the winners, but it does lessen the competition as a whole, which is a real shame.

What is it that you are looking for when judging the worthiness of a product?

At a very basic level: what is the product trying to do, and does it do it well? Beyond that, I want a product to show me how I am going to have fun with it. I suspect that the sheer volume of work that I'll be reviewing (if enough of you vote for me) means that clarity will also be a factor – but if the interest value of the product rewards the effort I put into it, then I won't hold that effort against it.

Different doesn't necessarily mean better. Agree or disagree?

When judging an entry against other entries, agreed. How well a product achieves its goal is more important than the choice of goal. As a gamer, I like to have a wide choice of games to draw, so different is better when considering a purchase.

What is the difference between writing a gaming product and playing one? Is there a noticeable difference between the two where RPG products are concerned? If so, what are they?

Heck, that's a toughie. All I can think of right now (and it's late here) is that writing a product requires you to condense as much brilliance as possible into a limited amount of space; playing it is about "unpacking" that brilliance and adding your own to it.

Some RPG books (or mechanics) are better, or at least different, when played rather than just read. Without playing them, is there any way for a judge to reach a judgement about the products utility without actual play experience? If so what are they?

Generally, drawing on previous actual play experience. Some of it does carry over, especially as most RPG material isn't completely different from everything that's gone before. Beyond that, just asking yourself "what good stuff could come from this, and what are the risks?" This doesn't totally make up for not being able to playtest thoroughly, but that isn't an option here.

This may be related to what OHT is asking but I noticed that two of the awards are for "Best Writing" and "Best Rules". First, how would you distinguish these two categories? Second, what in your opinion is good writing for an RPG? What makes good rules?

Good writing is about being able to clearly convey information and also about the aesthetic quality of the writing itself. Good rules should facilitate good play.

How important is innovation in deciding if rules are good?

Not important at all. Again, how well a product achieves its goal is more important than the choice of goal.

Which RPG would you recommend to your mother, and why?

Something with simple rules and minimal prep. Not because she'd have been bad at it, but because for many non-gamers a lot of RPG play is lots of work for little reward. If I have to name a specific system, The Pool because it's so very easy to pick up and play, and sets very little boundaries on what can and cannot be introduced during play.

Question (3-part): Free extra online content and customer support; do you feel these should be considered as part of a product for the purposes of evaluation? Under some qualifications and conditions? If so which?

I think this should only be considered if the product is itself "online". For example, if the product is a computer software application, free tech support is an issue! Similarly, I believe there are some "virtual gametable" programs out there, and whether or not it would be possible to download updates to facilitate newly released RPGs would be a factor.

For everything else, what's in front of me is what gets considered.

What´s your opinion on Palladiumbooks products, like Rifts?

Way back, I got a copy of Palladium Fantasy and really enjoyed it, especially the range of character classes compared to the core D&D/AD&D books. Ninjas & Superspies was exceptional and still holds its own for the sheer wealth of martial arts content. Enjoyed reading TMNT but never got around to playing it.

As for Rifts, by the time I knew it was there, it was already up to book 7 or 8 and that seemed like such a huge investment (I couldn't imagine not buying the whole set) that it turned me off. So I skipped it, and I've seen no reason to pick it up since. What I've read of the setting doesn't inspire me – it sounds like fun, just not my sort of fun. And the mechanics just don't work for me as well as, say, d20 (I feel the two systems try to occupy a similar "space").

Regards,

Doug

Thanks for consolidating the questions, Doug, hope you don't mind that I benefit from your efforts.  :deflated:


Which do you prefer, Amber or Nobilis, and why?

I'm a Nobilis fan.  Amber didn't do it for me for a variety of reasons, including difficulty translating the books into an RPG and the "bidding" system of character generation.  I also like the general writing in Nobilis better and find it to be a game with much more varied elements for characters to explore and engage.

I know this makes me the devil.  

Which do you prefer, nWoD or D&D 3.5, and why?

nWoD because it's easier for me to run, task resolution is faster, and because it tends to reflect game concepts that interest me more.

Do sales figures reflect quality, why or why not?

Sales figures reflect a variety of factors, and while there may be a correlation between sales figures and quality there is no causation.

If a game sells like hot cakes I'll certainly have a look at it and see what's up, but that's just the very beginning of checking a product out.

How do you feel about Wizards of the Coast abstaining from entering products?

I don't care.  I failed their evaluation to become a comped reviewer (they have PR people search you and examine your works) so I'm sure they don't mind me not reviewing their products.

What is it that you are looking for when judging the worthiness of a product?

The same broad factors I look for when reviewing any product, from editing and art to fun and innovation.  If you want a clear idea, check out my RPG.net reviews.

Different doesn't necessarily mean better. Agree or disagree?

Agree.

What is the difference between writing a gaming product and playing one? Is there a noticeable difference between the two where RPG products are concerned? If so, what are they?

Writing a game product (hopefully) makes the person more aware of game mechanics, layout concerns, and generally makes them appreciate RPG design more than a person might who just plays.  It's going to really vary from person to person, however.

Some RPG books (or mechanics) are better, or at least different, when played rather than just read. Without playing them, is there any way for a judge to reach a judgement about the products utility without actual play experience? If so what are they?

Sure.  Folk who are commonly exposed to a variety of RPGs often develop a head for mechanics.  Building characters and running sample task resolutions can strongly indicate how something will flow in play, and the same can be said for just crunching out probabilities of success.

At the very least the person could accurately judge every element of the RPG *except* the mechanics and would have to make an informed guess as to how the game handles in actual play.

This may be related to what OHT is asking but I noticed that two of the awards are for "Best Writing" and "Best Rules". First, how would you distinguish these two categories? Second, what in your opinion is good writing for an RPG? What makes good rules?

Writing is going to encompass fiction, flow of language, word choice, and general readability concerns.  Editing would also be a big deal.  Rules will encompass game mechanics, stat blocks, and other things of a similar nature.  Good writing is when I leave the book with a dozen ideas, entertained by the product.  Good rules is when I leave the book with lots of character build ideas in my head and a general desire to fiddle with the mechanics.

How important is innovation in deciding if rules are good?

Somewhat important.  Sticking with classic RPG design is good, it's a tried and true method.  Attribute + Skill + die roll isn't very exciting, but it's easy for people to understand and simple to teach to others.  If a game is innovative in a good way, that is it offers something new and it does what it sets out to do well, then that's going to be a solid mark in its favor.  I don't want to play the same game system, or a simple derivative, for the rest of my life.  I want to try out new stuff.

Which RPG would you recommend to your mother, and why?

Faery's Tale from Firefly Games.  It's simple, cute, fun to read, and offers a wealth of adventure.

Question (3-part): Free extra online content and customer support; do you feel these should be considered as part of a product for the purposes of evaluation? Under some qualifications and conditions? If so which?

I consider easily accessible errata to be a slight mark in favor of a product, but I generally assume that the average customer will not get online and hunt down errata.  Still, when a company like Paragon Games goes out of their way to put out an entire free chapter for Secret of Zir'an it helps make up for their mistake a bit.

What´s your opinion on Palladiumbooks products, like Rifts?

I think it's an old game system that desperately needs a substantial update.  I think a lot of Palladium products have really cool ideas, though.

Quote from: SettembriniQ:
What´s your opinion on Palladiumbooks products, like Rifts.

Rifts was one of the first products I was exposed to when I started gaming.  I clearly remember one of the guys I was gaming with going on and on for over an hour about his laser-shooting machine-gun toting T-Rex character.  It blew my mind a bit back then, but I really respect the fact is such a versitile system.  I really like the fact that so many genres can be integrated (one of the reasons I also like GURPS) and so it makes the home-brew creation process much easier because you don't have to worry about altering the rules to fit.

Which do you prefer, Amber or Nobilis, and why?
I’ll be blunt. I have played both and enjoyed neither. I do not enjoy diceless gaming, nor do I enjoy games in which one is playing minor gods. That stated, I preferred Nobilis – I liked the setting better and found the rules easier to learn, not to mention the stunning production values.

Which do you prefer, nWoD or D&D 3.5, and why?
I prefer D&D 3.5 because I think the system is more self-consistent and self-contained. While I prefer the WOD pattern of power accumulation to the ugly geometric power inflation that comes with the D&D system, I find that there are still far too many vestiges of the “storyteller” concept in nWoD compared to D&D 3.5’s well thought-out social contract between GM and players.

Do sales figures reflect quality, why or why not?
If they did, we wouldn’t need to go through this adjudication process. Companies would just submit sales figures.

Sales figures reflect many things: brand loyalty, consumer expectations, effective advertizing, strong product placement, etc. Given that few in the industry have the opportunity to read everything out there, many good products have small sales despite strong design simply because they never reach a mass audience. Furthermore, some excellent products, while excellent, still appeal to small subset of the gaming community – these products, even if they are unlikely to have the kind of mass following necessary to pull off a victory, should still receive nominations.

How do you feel about Wizards of the Coast abstaining from entering products?
It’s a good move. Kind of like the Roman Catholic Church being only an observer at the World Council of Churches meetings.

What is it that you are looking for when judging the worthiness of a product?
I am looking for a product that knows what it is trying to do and does it well. Even if the product’s project is not one I am personally interested in, such as creating a strong narrativist framework for exploring the human aspects for life as a superhero, if the product knows clearly whom it is serving and serves the community well, it will have my endorsement.

Different doesn't necessarily mean better. Agree or disagree?
Agree.

What is the difference between writing a gaming product and playing one?
The experiences are pretty different. I know people who are strong GMs but mediocre writers and people who are strong writers but mediocre GMs. I think writing a game is more similar to a GM’s pre-game prep time – it is about thinking through a wide range of possible PC actions and creating tools that enable a GM to adapt to PC choices. Writing is about thinking thoroughly and systematically.

Running or playing a game, on the other hand, is about having a strong intuitive sense of what will keep play moving at any given moment, what prepared materials one can make use of and what to forget about. Playing is about balancing intuition, charisma and spontaneity with the overall framework of an adventure or a campaign.
Is there a noticeable difference between the two where RPG products are concerned?  If so, what are they?
I don’t really understand this part of the question. Obviously, my judgment about whether a gaming product is a good one will be how useful it will be to those running or playing the game for which it is designed.

Some RPG books (or mechanics) are better, or at least different, when played rather than just read. Without playing them, is there any way for a judge to reach a judgement about the products utility without actual play experience? If so what are they?
As a GM, I have a clear sense, when I read material, of how playable it will be and normally my instincts are proven correct. I purchase very few RPG products in my real life and so I value my capacity to judge, from reading through books I have been lent, whether I am looking at a system that I personally want to invest in.

I don’t think one can easily verbalize a procedure for arriving at a conclusion about a game or supplement’s playability. A host of factors need to be considered. But ultimately, I think much of the work comes down to imagination: a good judge should be able to imagine a group of people playing the system and him/herself running it and, in that act of imagination, see the potential assets and limitations of the product.

So, while I cannot outline a specific procedure, I can generally say that this can be achieved through a combination of imagination and recollection of past gaming experiences.

This may be related to what OHT is asking but I noticed that two of the awards are for "Best Writing" and "Best Rules". First, how would you distinguish these two categories?
For Best Writing, I will be looking at things like prose style, indexing, organization and seamless integration of mechanical (crunch) and descriptive (fluff) sections. I can envisage excellent writing describing a mediocre and unoriginal new system.

For Best Rules, I will be looking at how the actual mechanics of the rules support and facilitate enjoyable play. I can envisage an excellent set of rules that are described in mediocre prose with poor indexing and proofreading errors.

Second, what in your opinion is good writing for an RPG? What makes good rules?
Good writing is writing that makes the distinction between “crunch” and “fluff” disappear by integrating all of the text into a single coherent product. Obviously, products whose rules run counter to their stated genre and play style are unlikely to be characterized by good writing. Nevertheless, good writing is just that: writing that is enjoyable to read and that explains clearly and simply what it is trying to explain.

Good rules, on the other hand, are rules that do the job they claim they are doing. If people want a story-oriented game, the mechanics should be able to affect story directly and should reward and facilitate narrative coherence. If people want a setting/exploration-oriented game, the rules should be the physics of the game world and should represent events in the game well. For instance, if one wants to tell stories in which characters suffer permanent, debilitating and specific injuries, it makes no sense to have a True 20 or D20 damage mechanic because it will cause a disjuncture between what the GM describes and the situations the rules represent.

How important is innovation in deciding if rules are good?
I would not reward innovation for its own sake but obviously if a product broke impressive new ground, I would recognize this.

Which RPG would you recommend to your mother, and why?
My mom hates RPGs. If I had to, I would recommend the French Revolution game my friend Piers is developing. It is a bit more of a party game than an RPG -- every game is a meeting of the Committee for Public Safety and all the players are members thereof, answering correspondence and debating one another.

Free extra online content and customer support; do you feel these should be considered as part of a product for the purposes of evaluation?
That could cut both ways. My first question would be: why does the product need this? Is this support needed because the rules are not self-explanatory? Is it needed because the rules have errors/bugs? I can see this being a good idea of electronic products but would be hesitant to reward it for any other products.