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Questions about RPGPundit's Grimoires

Started by WERDNA, October 02, 2024, 05:37:34 PM

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WERDNA

I am interested in the original texts and their histories, but every once in a while I find things with which I am unfamiliar.
Most of these questions are about books found in Pundit Presents or Old School Companion 1:

The Goetia --> Obviously is the Ars Goetia and is very faithful take when compared to the versions of the Goetia I've read.

The Clavicula --> Straightforwardly the Clavicula Salomonis/Greater Key. Rituals are a bit more powerful than in the real thing. Despite legends of Solomon's flying magic carpet, the one in the real text is stuck on the ground. The talismans in the real Clavicula correspond to the ones in Lion & Dragon, so I think you made up the ones in The Clavicula of RPGPundit Presents. Please tell me if I'm wrong and they have a basis in reality.

Ghayat Al-Hakim --> Based on the blurb this is the Latin Picatrix. Books I and II are 1 to 1 with their descriptions between game and real life. Book III does in fact have a section for planetary rituals for certain effects although I no longer recall if they match up with the game rules and cannot check currently (maybe later). Book IV has many miscellaneous contents in reality and I know not what the "contact spirits of the stars" here refers to. You say a dozen are given which calls to mind either the zodiac or 1/3 of the decans. There is a section in Book IV about invoking the moon in relation to the signs of the zodiac, but I still don't know if that's what this is referring to. Seems different. It's possible that the Latin Picatrix and my own copy which is an English translation from Arabic differ in content, but I just don't know.

The Theurgia --> The initial description points to the Ars Theurgia, but who the hell are these spirits?! They differ completely in name and number. There are 36. Are they decan spirits? Are they attached to the 3 parts of the Roman month (calends, nones, ides)? Both? Neither?

The Book of Quaternary Tables --> Obviously, the Ars Al-Madel famous in the Lemegeton/Lesser Key of presumably Arabic origin. IIRC the spirits are cardinal directional angels(?) in the source. Was the change to elementals just mere OSRification or based on some correspondence between the classical elements and 4 compass points?
Edit: Apparently earlier recensions conjure "Jinn and shayatin," not angels. Furthermore, a later grimoire (18th c. German) has a clearly derivative ritual to conjure the spirits of fire, earth, water and air.

The Book of the New Arts --> From the name and early section mentioning memory training and mandalas I believe this is supposed to be the Ars Notoria and its Ars Nova section. If I'm right, I presume the spatial magics are connected with the idea of visualization meditation. Nonetheless, how did you come up with them from the contents of the work if so?

The Book of the Art of the Hours --> I'm not sure what this one is supposed to be. Something attributed to Apollonius or St. Paul (like Ars Paulina, but the spirits differ?)? I did see the hourly spirit names in Agrippa and the Heptameron; they also apparently appear in the Liber Razielis which I have not read. The hour order differs though. I also have no idea where this scrying with the Spirit of Death ritual comes from. So from what text does this grimoire originate?

Book of Byzantine Magic --> This a surely a reskin of the Abramelin from L&D for Baptism of Fire. Regardless, is there a reason for making this proto-Abramelin a Greek text from around the 4th century AD?

RPGPundit

I'll say that your guesses are correct, and the differences are mostly from some artistic license to make it more gameable.
The reason why the Abramelin is given a different history is because at that time I was still going with the Dark Albion default alt-history that removed most of the judeo-christian elements. If I rewrote it today, when I've basically abandoned that conceit in Sword & Caravan as well as Baptism of Fire, I'd have it be a Jewish magical book.
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WERDNA

Quote from: RPGPundit on October 02, 2024, 10:12:35 PMIf I rewrote it today, when I've basically abandoned that conceit in Sword & Caravan as well as Baptism of Fire, I'd have it be a Jewish magical book.
Wait a second, the Abramelin guardian angel ritual is in a Greek book IN my copy of Baptism of Fire's magic item section despite that conceit being dropped; so are you saying it's just a holdover from Dark Albion that this is the case?

Just so I understand the confirmation clearly: The Book of the New Arts essentially IS Ars Notoria and the Book of the Arts of the Hours is more of a composite of texts rather than anything real. It's spirit of death conjuration being entirely fictional.

If you didn't just make them up whole cloth, I'd like to know from where the spirits in your Theurgia originate. Otherwise I will spend even more hours searching and pouring over manuscript translations, likely in vain.
For ease, the names of the 36 spirits being: Yasyas, Yasged, Saspa, Abdar, Gerod, Bihel, Avro, Satri, Zaz, Behah, Sata, Kedami, Minach, Yakas, Sagara, Shehad, Betho, Mathra, Raha, Alin, Losan, Zachi, Sahi, Anana, Rayad, Mishpa, Taras, Sahar, Shach, Kamo, Nundo, Uthro, Mishra, Vehi, Abo, Lekab.

Thank you for answering these sorts of questions. I very much enjoy reading the source works that inspire games, especially historical ones. I like reading about these sorts of topics anyway (my hard drive is full of academic papers), and a greater depth of understanding than is really necessary also helps whether DMing or playing a character in a historical setting.