Quote from: Dulahan;957959Such a shame there's not a Bedjnallan History tome equivalent to the Engsvanyali one.

Then write one!

It'd be a fun project, and a useful one. I know I would enjoy reading it.

Quote from: Dulahan;958011A different observation.  It's weird how views and understandings change with time.  I've been trying to research Sarku's temple more carefully due to prominent potential NPCs in my game, and finding that... wow, I'm sorta 'getting' Sarku a lot more.  Like enough that I can definitely see the appeal of his worship amongst the common folk outside of the typical "Woohoo I wanna be undead" sorts, and indeed, ignoring ever doing that.

My initial impressions were definitely formed by first reads of the novels, sourcebook, and Mitlanyal back in college.   But over a decade later, it's definitely different.

Of course, reading the novels again might change that right back when Dhic'hune shows up...

Agreed. Originally, the Sarku people were all pretty much cardboard targets / generic bad guys; over time, like everything else, we learned a lot more nuanced things - and had a lot more nuanced play, as a result.

Quote from: Zirunel;958123Then write one!

It'd be a fun project, and a useful one. I know I would enjoy reading it.

Agreed; plenty of materials in the files, scattered around all of the texts...

The "Legend of Cleopatra" Indiegogo is now up and running:

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-legend-of-cleopatra-fantasy#/

We'll backing this one as we have the previous ones - all sorts of useful people and fantastical beasts...

Quote from: chirine ba kal;958211Agreed. Originally, the Sarku people were all pretty much cardboard targets / generic bad guys; over time, like everything else, we learned a lot more nuanced things - and had a lot more nuanced play, as a result.

Was kinda what I was hoping to do with the Sarku Shrine the PCs stumbled upon in my game... then promptly ran from.  Then bowled over the NPC.  They were gonna get invited to take part in a Dark Trinity Ritual, but nooooo, Brave Sir Robin...

Now I guess they'll just run into her at a party or festival or something and she might recognize one of them and things get awkward.  Especially when she's standing there with her Ito Clan betrothed...

But yeah, I sort of like the idea that their main goal is to 'witness' things.  They want to see it all.  It's like this one thing I read once somewhere (I think it was someone's post on another board in a conversation about whether you'd want immortality or clinical immortality) which said roughly, "I want to be there to watch it when the last star fades out.  And then I want to kick back in my easy chair with a glass of wine and think back on what a wonderful ride it was."

And you know what?  That's a viewpoint I totally agree with.  If I could be healthy of body and do that, I'd want to.  I want to see it all through the ages.  So knowing that really helped me grok Sarku worshippers.  At least I think so!

Quote from: chirine ba kal;958212Agreed; plenty of materials in the files, scattered around all of the texts...

That sounds like a hell of a project.  Especially when one doesn't have access to the files and texts.

Quote from: chirine ba kal;958214The "Legend of Cleopatra" Indiegogo is now up and running:

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-legend-of-cleopatra-fantasy#/

We'll backing this one as we have the previous ones - all sorts of useful people and fantastical beasts...

Phil would love these.  Heck, you can fill out a couple of Avanthe legions at least.

And the monsters are great, as are the "Really Truly NOT CONAN Figures!  Honest!"

Quote from: Dulahan;958372That sounds like a hell of a project.  Especially when one doesn't have access to the files and texts.

Well, it's true you can just throw up your hands and say it can't be done, but I think that kind of defeatism is not only unseemly, but unnecessary.

Like many (most?) of us, I once imagined that the Professor's files held a wealth of previously unpublished Tekumel lore, but it has become very clear over the last five years that that simply isn't the case, and there is much less there than meets the eye.

On the one hand, there really isn't much there there. There are few crown jewels. Early drafts of familiar  publications sure, but not much that is truly new to us.

On the other hand, the snippets of unpublished knowledge that may be scattered around in there clearly aren't going to see the light of day. Not anytime soon, if ever.

In effect, we already know most everything we will ever know about the setting.

Therefore, if you want a Bednalljan history, look at what you already have and begin there. EPT and the Sourcebook describe the beginning, Nayari and her successors. The Engsvanyali history describes the Tarishande dynasty and the end of the First Imperium. Everything in between is a bit of a mystery, but tabletop RPG is SUPPOSED to be a creative hobby, right? So create. There'll be bits and bobs in Deeds of the Ever-glorious, maybe in the Blue Room archive, but really you have to flesh out the rest yourself. Why wait for revelations from the Professor that will never come? If you love the setting but you are troubled by the gaps, then just write something up and fill them.

Done and done.

Quote from: Zirunel;958438Well, it's true you can just throw up your hands and say it can't be done, but I think that kind of defeatism is not only unseemly, but unnecessary.

Like many (most?) of us, I once imagined that the Professor's files held a wealth of previously unpublished Tekumel lore, but it has become very clear over the last five years that that simply isn't the case, and there is much less there than meets the eye.

On the one hand, there really isn't much there there. There are few crown jewels. Early drafts of familiar  publications sure, but not much that is truly new to us.

On the other hand, the snippets of unpublished knowledge that may be scattered around in there clearly aren't going to see the light of day. Not anytime soon, if ever.

In effect, we already know most everything we will ever know about the setting.

Therefore, if you want a Bednalljan history, look at what you already have and begin there. EPT and the Sourcebook describe the beginning, Nayari and her successors. The Engsvanyali history describes the Tarishande dynasty and the end of the First Imperium. Everything in between is a bit of a mystery, but tabletop RPG is SUPPOSED to be a creative hobby, right? So create. There'll be bits and bobs in Deeds of the Ever-glorious, maybe in the Blue Room archive, but really you have to flesh out the rest yourself. Why wait for revelations from the Professor that will never come? If you love the setting but you are troubled by the gaps, then just write something up and fill them.

Done and done.

That works, provided that when people complain it's not "real" Tekumel you simply have the self confidence to tell them to go fuck themselves.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;958447That works, provided that when people complain it's not "real" Tekumel you simply have the self confidence to tell them to go fuck themselves.

Totally agree. "Real Tekumel" is as out there as it will ever be. There won't be much more, if any. So the complainers don't actually have very much to throw at you.

 The rest is gaps. Gaps that will be filled by "Your Tekumel." Be clear that your Tekumel is your Tekumel. Issue a disclaimer to that effect, whatever, but don't hesitate to stand up for Your Tekumel. Create it, make it yours, share it. You love it, right? So have the confidence to stand up for your take on it.

Quote from: Zirunel;958438Well, it's true you can just throw up your hands and say it can't be done, but I think that kind of defeatism is not only unseemly, but unnecessary.

Like many (most?) of us, I once imagined that the Professor's files held a wealth of previously unpublished Tekumel lore, but it has become very clear over the last five years that that simply isn't the case, and there is much less there than meets the eye.

On the one hand, there really isn't much there there. There are few crown jewels. Early drafts of familiar  publications sure, but not much that is truly new to us.

On the other hand, the snippets of unpublished knowledge that may be scattered around in there clearly aren't going to see the light of day. Not anytime soon, if ever.

In effect, we already know most everything we will ever know about the setting.

That's really interesting and important information. Thanks for sharing that.

Quote from: Neshm hiKumala;958513That's really interesting and important information. Thanks for sharing that.

Um...you're welcome, but please understand, my characterization of the Professors archives is more "impression" than "information. "

It's based on things Chirine has told us, and also (reading between the lines a little) what the Foundation implies about the collection and what they have to work with.

My sense is that the Professor's papers would be ideal source materials for a biography of the man, and maybe for a history of the creation and evolution of Tekumel in his imagination, but there isn't much there that would significantly expand his creation beyond what has already been published.

Unless chirine has The Professor's head in a jar in his basement. :eek:

Maybe that "chirine ba kal you have gone native" applies and he is a secret Sarku worshiper?

=

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;958397Phil would love these.  Heck, you can fill out a couple of Avanthe legions at least.

And the monsters are great, as are the "Really Truly NOT CONAN Figures!  Honest!"

Agreed; I think he would have been all over them in a minute. Have you looked at the Dark Fable website? All the people we used to run into at the better sort of parties are there, along with the required fan-bearers and trumpet-tooters that Phil loved so much to put on the table.

If I may digress into my philosophy of gaming, figures like this don't 'ruin my immersion' when I play; they, instead, inspire me to dream of gods and heroes and their (mis)adventures. I look at them, and stories start to write themselves; adventures occur, and - as I am wont to say - mayhem ensues.

Just wait'll you see what I'm cooking up to go with the Dark Fable miniatures... :eek:

Quote from: Greentongue;958593Unless chirine has The Professor's head in a jar in his basement. :eek:

Maybe that "chirine ba kal you have gone native" applies and he is a secret Sarku worshiper?

=

In a way, I do. I've been told by quite a few of the people who played with Phil and with me that I 'do Tekumel' better then he did; I think this is because he was a first-generation GM, and I'm a second-generation one with a lot of gameplay (read, "what works and what doesn't") under my belt. Plus, I have the resources inherent in having all of his files in my collection, as well as all of the material we and other people generated over the years. So, I do games with a certain style and panache, and with - I will admit - a certain flourish; I believe that Phil's creation, as well as the time we had with him, deserves no less. He once said to Dave Arneson "Chirine makes the most clever little miniatures!" and I try to keep that in mind.


Do I like what's happening? No, I don't; it's killing the dream that a lot of people had over the years. In my admittedly ignorable opinion, following Phil's advice in EPT and 'make Tekumel your own' is what will keep his dream alive.

And I will continue to do what I do, as one of my detractors once said, of "keeping the Tekumel flame alive"; next month, I have a group coming in to do research on the early days of gaming and play a little Tekumel. We'll see what happens, eh?

Quote from: Zirunel;958555My sense is that the Professor's papers would be ideal source materials for a biography of the man, and maybe for a history of the creation and evolution of Tekumel in his imagination (...).

Absolutely. I had the same thought the other day while reading the latest Tekumel Collecting blog post.
Absolutely fascinating information. I'd buy a book filled with that sort of info (and more) in a heartbeat.