And if it does, would it make the matters worse?

Where I'm up to now in the thread, there's been a lot of talk about revivitalizing Tekumel and drawing in new blood.  And I really did want to give my own thoughts based on my own initial barriers, from the point of view of a later convert (2003-4ish - gaming since I was 10 or so in 1992) - not as a "one true way" solution, and definitely NOT a "do it chirine!" mind you, but just as a brain dump of thoughts knowing it's unlikely to ever officially happen:

I'll fully admit I'm a setting nerd.  I dive into settings for fun, way more RPG books than I'll ever play because I enjoy reading fictional histories and cultures.  So that definitely colors my ideas.  But I also know there's a lot of gamers like me, and they're prime targets for Tekumel.

I'm not going to go in depth about what game rules would work.  Frankly?  I don't think rules is really the issue.   Instead, I look to it as a setting and at all the barriers to learning about it, and most aren't the setting at all - us setting nerds are not afraid of funny words or lengthy reading lists, that's often the selling point! I was lucky back in late 2003  when I really started discovering it I could still get a lot of stuff from Titas (And honestly?  Even back then I was concerned about shopping there, with no online storefront just email correspondance, thankfully he's an honest guy so it wasn't an issue, but I definitely hesitated for months before my first order), so I have many of the things that were published.  Most people weren't.

For instance, when the Sourcebook got reprinted on Drivethru, there was actually a lot of buzz in Web circles I frequent about it.  Until it was pointed out it was just a scan of the old version with super tiny font and hand drawn accent marks (and now that I know the story of that, it's even more sad!), which we could see on the Drivethru preview and then bam!  Suddenly all sorts of people were going "Well, fuck that, my eyes can't take a small font" - and I do think it's probably a bit small for easy reading, especially on a tablet or phone. So, more lost sales.  

So us setting nerds were still without an easy way to get Tekumel.  Barriers.  Availability, the format of what's out there, not knowing what to start with (The most common Tekumel thread I see on message boards is "where to start?").  so yeah, I think 'where to start' is the big one to address.

My view is a great, modern first step would be some form of a Quickstart Guide to Tekumel.  A free "preview" sort of thing, 10-20 or so (depending on amount of art) pages of Setting and advice on why it's not so scary as it might appear.  Wet the appetite, give people an idea of the wonder they'll get (not to mention something to hand to players).  As awesome as it is, we don't need a large chunk on the history, don't overwhelm in any point.  Again, wet the appetite, make sure people know there was something.   If not for the cost of color art and printing, I'd even suggest pushing to make it a Free RPG Day handout, but that's probably out of the question unless done as a kickstarter or stretch goal for such.   Though even an online file would be wonderful.

Maybe an outline something like:

1 page on history up to the Seal Imperium.  Just enough to know these periods exist and had an effect on latter history, plus that there's more info out there.  Focus on why each period was important, and give something to tickle interests.  "Before - Distant future, terraformed, original inhabitants pushed aside, Humanspace lords big dicks"  "Egsvan hla Ganga - Religion formalized."  Etc.

1-2 Pages on religion - again, not much, basics of Pavar, names of the gods and cohorts, basics of their purviews, and I mean BASICS.  This is the one place I'm not sure 1 page is enough, and could spill over - and that online because of listing out 20 gods and their domains (Sidebar?).

1 page or less on Modern History and situation.  

1 page on the rest of the 5 Empires AND the world.  this may or may not be combined with the above.

1 page on society, clans, etc.

And the rest of "How you can find ADVENTURE!"  More advice focused, talk about influences like Barsoom and Sword and Sandals stuff.  So like, this thread.  Also, modern references.  I keep seeing someone (was it Greentongue?) talking about anime being a good way to try and do Tekumel, and you know what?  He's not wrong.  There's no perfect anime to point to, HOWEVER, most anime fans are conciously or not already familiar with "Us" societies, and even how Heroes work therein.  That's just a huge theme of so many Shounen stories like Bleach and Naruto.  So honestly, just making those connections blatant would make the mindset a lot easier for people to grasp.  They're also used to the concept of "enemy one day, ally the next."

I probably wouldn't even talk much about the non-human races, except mentioning the Ssu and Hlyss were the world's original inhabitants in the history.  Otherwise? A page or two with a drawing of the "non humans you might encounter in the Imperium" and a short vignette about each.  "A Mighty Shen!"  "The Clever Tinalyia" "The diabolical Hlutgru" or whatever.  Just a picture so you know what they look like and that.  Again, appetite?  Wet.

Oh, and at the start should be a pronunciation guide with the very straight up advice "It is pronounced exactly like it looks, don't be initmidated!  Nor worry about getting it wrong."

Finally, and importantly, conclude with where to go for more information on the world or Rules to play yourself, cite Bethorm, Empire of the Petal Throne, the Sourcebook, Mitlanyal, the language guides, and other things on Drive Thru/RPGnow.  And possibly have something about "stay tuned for a kickstart of an updated Sourcebook"  (Yeah, I think a new layout, some color art, and the likes done through kickstart would be the way to go).  BAM!  A starting point, complete with guidance of where to go next based on what caught your interest and your gaming style preferences.

Maybe have a cute cover of an Ahoggya in a graduation cap looking all Scholarly in front of a chalk board.  "You too can Tekumel!"   (With the latter written on the board in English AND Tsolyani).  Or not, and something more Epic.

A shame one of those other barriers would see this approach as being wrong.  

So to bring this back around, I'm curious about a good way to get this rough effect for the incoming players I'm getting for my own game.  The better and quicker the intro for them, the better for all!  Because this is exactly what I'd love to have for my game.  Because ultimately, you're all right.  This isn't a hard game or setting to grasp!  It's just getting it out there.

Quote from: Dulahan;942705So us setting nerds were still without an easy way to get Tekumel.  Barriers.  Availability, the format of what's out there, not knowing what to start with (The most common Tekumel thread I see on message boards is "where to start?").  so yeah, I think 'where to start' is the big one to address.

This is useful ... You, too, CAN run Empire of the Petal Throne
=

Quote from: Dulahan;942577A couple other things that have come up today.  Noticed you talking about Gaming Cons in striking distance.  don't forget Fargo!  We've got Core Con and Valley Con, the former of which at least is definitely in the same size range as many of those you mention.  Really nerdy, gamer heavy city here with all the colleges and the tech industry booming like it is.  Great place to intro impressionable gamers to a glorious setting (as I am looking to do - even if my potential players are all... whatever we want to call 30 and 40 something gamers)  Plus we're a few hours closer than a few others.

I'm sorry I missed this, last night; we were out the door on the way to my annual check-up. I am officially still alive, and in very good health, considering.

I have broken this into two replies, as we're covering two different subjects.

Doing conventions is difficult for us; my pills cost me about $75 a quarter to keep me alive, and - not to horrify - the Missus is a cancer survivor. (It's been three years, and we had a very bad scare over Christmas with her.) We simply do not have the money to fund a lot of convention trips; if the con is six hours or less driving time away, we can usually afford the gas, but sleeping rooms and sometimes food for the weekend is out of our reach. Yes, we do have savings, but medical bills - the co-pays, actually - can pile up fast. So, we're limited there, and I also have to be very careful with my limited reserves of energy and stamina.  I can either organize a convention trip, with all the attendant logistics, or run the games at the convention. I simply can't do both, we've found.

Now, having said that, exchanging e-mails to set an event up, and the actual loading the van is pretty easy for me; I've done an 'events guide' for people to use as a sort of 'menu' for setting up an event, and I keep everything pre-packed and ready to load - I have to load into the basement anyway, so it's simply a matter of driving time. Basically, the event organizer(s) select the games that they'd like to see me run at their event, I get the time off of work - I have absurd amounts of paid vacation time built up - and load the games and drive to the con. The organizers provide me a place to sleep (and a working bathroom, please) and some food would be nice. It is just that easy.

And I do follow the advice of an ex-Royal Navy veteran about conventions; send the details in writing, and we're good. Make sure that you, the event organizer,  have all your ducks in a row and we'll be fine. Don't have the sleeping space, and I won't work for you again. I'll be there for the event, but don't tell me when I get there that you can't hold up your end of the deal; I've had too many surprises like this in my career.

(The RN vet? A guy named Jon Pertwee, who went on to an acting career. He was at an East Coast USA convention when they told him they didn't have his return fare, so he sold off all his possessions in the hotel lobby on Sunday.)

Quote from: Dulahan;942577Though more importantly, as I've hit the 4100s of this thread reading marathon, I notice mention of Luttwak's Grand Strategy of the Roman Empire!  Excellent book!  In can people weren't aware, he's got one for the Eastern Roman Empire, aka, Byzantines (Grand Strategy of the Byzantine Empire) which is probably equally, if not more useful for Tekumel too.

EDIT: And like 3 posts further into the thread after I posted this, talk of the Byzantine one comes up.

I will add this, it was highly regarded stuff by my professors in the department of Central Eurasian Studies at Indiana University.  So much so they were both pointed out to me for uses in talking about the Mongols and their interactions with China.  Mostly as a good means of extrapolating Defense in Depth and the likes out of them, but fascinating texts all the same.

Phil introduced me to Luttwak's book on the Romans; I had read the one on coups in high school. I found the two on grand strategy fascinating, and it really helped me understand Phil's understanding of the policies of the Five Empires. I've used them in both Phil's campaign and my own; Phil was a little grumpy, it being a case of the biter bit...

Quote from: Dulahan;942705Where I'm up to now in the thread, there's been a lot of talk about revivitalizing Tekumel and drawing in new blood.  And I really did want to give my own thoughts based on my own initial barriers, from the point of view of a later convert (2003-4ish - gaming since I was 10 or so in 1992) - not as a "one true way" solution, and definitely NOT a "do it chirine!" mind you, but just as a brain dump of thoughts knowing it's unlikely to ever officially happen:

I'll fully admit I'm a setting nerd.  I dive into settings for fun, way more RPG books than I'll ever play because I enjoy reading fictional histories and cultures.  So that definitely colors my ideas.  But I also know there's a lot of gamers like me, and they're prime targets for Tekumel.

[snipped, if that's all right]

A shame one of those other barriers would see this approach as being wrong.  

So to bring this back around, I'm curious about a good way to get this rough effect for the incoming players I'm getting for my own game.  The better and quicker the intro for them, the better for all!  Because this is exactly what I'd love to have for my game.  Because ultimately, you're all right.  This isn't a hard game or setting to grasp!  It's just getting it out there.

Agreed. What you are saying is what I've been saying for the past forty years, and I'm still saying. Tekumel can be run by anyone, and not just by somebody like me. I can give you all sorts of local color, like I am doing in this thread, but anybody can run a good solid Tekumel game or campaign with the most basic resources.

Which is why I do my blog, and reply to questions in this thread. It's what I believe in, and have been trying to do for a very long time.

Quote from: Greentongue;942729This is useful ... You, too, CAN run Empire of the Petal Throne
=

Agreed; it's a good article, actually.

Quote from: Dulahan;942604Wonderful!

And here's a Geopolitical situation.  What is the likely response to the Ssu starting to overwhelm Pechano (Let's hope not!  I do like that place!) - if things were going bad enough, would Salarvyana, Yan Kor, or the Seal Imperium send troops to help stem the tide?  Or all of the above?  Would a big inimical threat be enough to lead to a form of temporary truce?

They probably would; they've done so in the past, which is how I got out there.

Not really; the local commanders of the troop detachments would work something out, and forget to mention it to the central governments - which would keep right on bickering with each other, as this would be more of a minor theater of operations for all of them.

Quote from: AsenRG;942635And if it does, would it make the matters worse?

Don't know; I doubt that the larger states would come to any agreements over this, but simply send troops to bolster the locals and gain diplomatic points with them. I'd expect that a lot of hired mercenaries would get used, rather then regular troops.

Quote from: chirine ba kal;942737They probably would; they've done so in the past, which is how I got out there.

Not really; the local commanders of the troop detachments would work something out, and forget to mention it to the central governments - which would keep right on bickering with each other, as this would be more of a minor theater of operations for all of them.

Interesting, so more a case of the Pechani sending messages to neighboring governors and such to please send help ASAP and hope for the  best?

For that matter, I notice the mention of Mercenaries in response to AsenRG's post.  How common are mercenary units?  And how large would they typically be?

Quote from: chirine ba kal;942739Don't know; I doubt that the larger states would come to any agreements over this, but simply send troops to bolster the locals and gain diplomatic points with them. I'd expect that a lot of hired mercenaries would get used, rather then regular troops.

What I was hinting at was, would there be a state after the larger states send in their troops to deal with something the locals can't deal with themselves:)?

This goes out to Chirine AND The Glorious General, as I am curious about both their answers to these about their time in the Thursday Night Group!

What would you say your favorite 'surprise' was?  Either like, the biggest Matrix "Whoa!" moment, or perhaps the moment that left you feeling the biggest sense of wonder and awe?


In a similar vein, what was the funniest moment?  


Finally in this round:  Any particular favorite recurring NPCs you loved to see return?  (Even if loved to hate  Because I fully know those can end up some of the most fun!  Like the smack talking tank with an AC2 in a Battletech game I ran, kept getting away from the PCs.  They hated that little shit, weak weapon, but always annoying.  The day they blew that thing up they were calling the player who had to drop the game, and he too joined in the celebration!)

Hello everybody,

Although I visit often, it's been a while since I posted anything here.

I just wanted to mention (for the ones who are not part of the Tekumel Discussion Group) that I just uploaded a vectorized version of the Seal of the Emperor to that forum. The vector itself is not perfect yet, but the heavy tracing work is done. Just install Inkscape on your computer, download the file, and start improving it or start adding colors to it, etc. Useful if you need to create clean versions of the Seal for your games, in lo or hi-res, etc.

Hope you find it useful.

You can access this file at the URL:
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/tekumel/files/TEKUMEL_Tsolyanu_Seal_vector.svg

Quote from: Dulahan;942755Interesting, so more a case of the Pechani sending messages to neighboring governors and such to please send help ASAP and hope for the  best?

For that matter, I notice the mention of Mercenaries in response to AsenRG's post.  How common are mercenary units?  And how large would they typically be?

Oh, probably; getting the next-door governor to help out is a lot easier then trying to persuade central governments to do anything. Local governors also have a lot more discretion in dealing with local threats - just don't start a war. So, I'd expect that the nearby Tsolyani governor would have a quiet word with the nearby Salarvyani governor, just to make sure that mistakes didn't happen and people didn't jump to the wrong conclusions.

Mercenary units can vary widely in size, from a dozen hired bravos working for a local patron to an entire legion paid by a central government. All of the Five Empires have this level of unit, and they tend to get used either for the kind of jobs that the central government does not want to use their own national troops for - this is especially for human soldiers - or as specialized troops (Like the Pe Choi and Pachi Lei in the Chakas, or Hlaka scounts) and shock troops (Shen, Ahoggya). Mercenaries are used a lot for reasons of 'deniability', where the central government doesn't want the other people in the area to get too upset at armed intervention. They are also occasionally treated as 'expendable', as Baron Ald found out.

Currently, my leaden alter ego and his little army are serving as mercenaries, under contract to the theocrats in the Nyemesel Isles. We provide the armored fist that the locals need to defend themselves. Two cohorts of heavies, two of mediums, one of archers, one of crossbows, and a mixed cohort of odds and ends of small mercenary groups of differing types - specialists, really - that are grouped together for administrative purposes.

Quote from: AsenRG;942766What I was hinting at was, would there be a state after the larger states send in their troops to deal with something the locals can't deal with themselves:)?

Yes; Pechano is just too useful as a 'buffer state' to try and take over. Nobody's got the logistic reach to do it, either.