Quote from: chirine ba kal;842465Does this help? I have lots more, if you like...

Yes, helps.
There is no such thing as too many.

So many other ideas are for the "Movers and Shakers" of society which a beginning character rarely is.
(When they are, they don't know the setting well enough or have "anthropology class" expectations.)

I like the, "Those nightmares you were having ... well this morning you awoke in that world.
The first thing you notice is that it is HOT and you are 'Not in Kansas Anymore'.
Strangely, it feels normal and maybe it was that other world you were dreaming about, not this one that is alien.
Something bumping your boat must have awaken you." ... type of game starts.

While "kill them and loot their bodies" is a traditional motivation, it is not something unique to Tekumel.
Nice to mix in sometimes but having setting specific things to do is a big plus.  
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Quote from: Greentongue;842435I can't control the expectations of my potential players.
I'm going for, "Those are Bad People! We must Stop Them!" and playing to what raises that reaction in the players.
How far it is from what the characters would think is the concern.

That naturally raises the question, what would would cause that reaction in the characters? (and still be something the players would recognize?)
While the Pale Bone may motivate people that know the setting, those that are just starting would have no idea.  

On the other hand, what engages new players from your experience?
(Besides SHINY!!)
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Serious question, wouldn't you provide such information on the spot?
"You see someone using an unorthodox weapon quite willfully."
"Good for him."
"This means he's at least trained by an assassin clan."
"Oh. Didn't we get a noble angry last session?"
Typical conversation at our table. I'm always curious how other people play, though!
(Hey, it helps my games later!)

Quote from: chirine ba kal;842449The kidnapping is Very Serious Stuff, as it's considered a violation of the Great Concordat if it happened outside the Underworld. The clan affected will call in all sorts of favors from everyone they know to find the kid, up to and including using the assassins' clans. They will also try very hard to keep the Imperium from getting involved, as that always means trouble for everyone - once the OAL gets in the door, they tend to want to ask a lot of questions about anything and everything.

Fun fact, that's exactly the attitude towards law enforcement in totalitarian states with corrupt law enforcement.

Quote from: chirine ba kal;842451My poor Adjutant is always having to tell me that I need to be a commander, and not a trooper. it takes all the fun out of battles, I can tell you...

No; I'm not high enough in the Imperial councils for that.

You'll have to ask him, sorry...

No, it wasn't me like that at Gary's table: it was me at Phil's table, though...

I think they just killed the thing...

Battles weren't supposed to be fun, last I checked.

If you were able to do it somehow, what would Karajan and Vrimulha think?

True. OG, how long was it IC before you got married off? How did you prove yourself as a valuable asset?

There was more than one player with photographic memory?

What a waste of ammo!
I'm imagining a besieged city and raining undead thrown by the besieging forces, of course!

Quote from: chirine ba kal;842456Agreed!!! Phil was always on us about not thinking inside the box, and about learning new cultures. Tsolyanu is a lot like Pharonic Egypt, really...

Have a look at the 'Lord Meren' series of mystery novels - they will provide a lot of good ideas for Tekumel.

Lord Meren is fun, indeed. I'd join the recommendation!

Quote from: chirine ba kal;842459We always used to get a rash when the Temple of Sarku showed up; they were kind of the usual bad guys for us.

I always am able to engage new players with the sheer difference of this world from what they are used to with the usual RPGs. The different world-setting helps a lot - and I have to admit, all the stuff I have in the game room - LOTS of SHINEY! - always gets them hooked. Then we get into the adventure, and they stay for literally years.

Well, Sarku has lots of worms and other parasites. Maybe one of them causes a rash telepathically.

And I've also found that exotic settings help, contrary to a popular opinion.

Quote from: chirine ba kal;842465Oh, sure; let me see...

Join a legion, see the world, and kill the bad guys before they kill you.
Escort a caravan from here to there, and try not to get killed or robbed.
Throw a party at your clan house, and try not to start a riot.
Throw a party at your Temple, and try not to start a riot.
Go off on a river voyage to get from here to there, maybe with some stuff  that needs moving.
Ditto, on a sea voyage.
Check up on why the family farm hasn't sent anything to market for a while.
Do odd jobs for Cousin Woofel, and try to stay alive.
Escort your clan-sister to her new home and husband, and try not to start a riot.
Visit the zoo in Bey Su, and marvel at the two short guys with the hairy feet who stick the funny burning weeds up their noses. (Two hobbits who got lost.)
Go shopping in the market place; try not get robbed, and try not to start a riot.
Try and find out who blew up your clan-uncle with the exploding receipts. (Most people use daggers or poison, but nooo, somebody had to get clever.)
Become an Imperial official, and try to stay alive long enough to collect your pension.
Save the Princess. (Although, in my career, she usually wound up saving me.)
Buy a boat. Go fishing. Don't get et.
Try to figure out what kind of Eye Cousin Woofel was looking at when it happened...
Get married. Try not to start a riot.

And then:

Go looking for fun in the steam tunnels - er, Underworld
Look for goodies forgotten in the basement of the clan-house
Go have a look at those ruins that they just found on the family farm
Bury poor Cousin Woofel in the family tomb in the Underworld
Explore that cool shiny tower that appeared one night on the family farm.
Take a trip on the tubeway car - Cousin Woofel said it was perfectly safe!

Does this help? I have lots more, if you like...

It sure helps me! I hadn't thought of at least a few of these, so, more is better!

Quote from: chirine ba kal;842467Hah! Agreed!

The Engsvanyali Empire of the Priest-kings was very much in the mold of Ancient Egypt, and a lot of those attitudes carried over into modern times. Phil said that 'modern ' Tekumel was very much South Asia, so you are right up there with him on this. The Mesoamerican influence dates back to the earlier Bednjallan Imperium, and again some of this still holds true today.

My miniatures 'visual shorthand' is to use Mesoamerican stuff for Bednjallan, Ancient Egyptian for the Engvanyali, and South Asian for modern times. Both the Dark Fable and Crocodile Games figures fit in with Phil's Tekumel 'design sense' so I use a lot of them.

So Mesoamerica follows from Egypt? Sweet! I've always liked the idea that they are related, which Thor Heyerdahl tried to prove with Ra and Ra II.
What can I say, I like the experimental approach to history.

Quote from: Bren;842473Ah, layers of prehistory with earth analogs for the various cultures. I like that.

So OG's character romanced and married a good clan girl. Did they have good clan kids or the sort of hooligans and hellions one might more reasonably expect as sharing in the OG genes?

So did Chirine also get married? Same question if so.

How much total game time elapsed for your characters?

Well, it does make things easier when people see stuff - this is information that they would know in character, so  make sure to give it to them. From a cultural standpoint, it also gives players a starting point from which to envision things.

You know, I don't know; I'd have to check the files. Of he could simply tell us...

Yes, Chirine is a happily married family man. Lady Si N'te (the Senior Wife and Lady of the House) has borne two wonderful children, who have inherited his ability with sorcery and her gifts as one of the telepaths of the Temple of Mretten. The domestic establishment also includes the brood of adopted adult children, who also serve as officers in the legion - it's my legion, and I'll hire who I want to.

May I let Her Ladyship add something?

"In my husband's culture, the mark of a great lord is his being able to support a large family; as his Senior Wife, it is my position to make sure that this happens in a proper manner. I am blessed by the Goddess Mretten with some very clever and intelligent friends, all of who are also friends of my husband; since my husband is a great lord of some repute and renown, I have therefore brought them into the family so that my husband is properly seen to and enjoys a high degree of status. It also helps with the twins; they are a bit of a handful, at times. Everyone benefits; I am surrounded by my closest friends, my husband has a proper household, and the children are properly looked after. It is all very practical, I am told, and I find that it makes my work running my household much easier as I enjoy such skiiled assistance."

Her Ladyship runs the household; His Lordship (me!) runs the army.

Let's see; I started in 2354 AS, in 1976, and I'm still playing. Our time with Phil in his games went until 2368 AS - I'd have to double check - in about 1988. Phil gamed in 'real time' if it took a year in the game to get from A to B, it took a year in the real world to do it; we spent a lot of time on the road or at sea, having 'encounters' and adventures along the way.

It's now 2394 AS - Phil added 379 to the current Terran date to get the date on Tekumel - and Chirine is, in theory, enjoying his 'retirement' as he heads into his early sixties. The adopted kids, Mridan, Takhmin, Takhmet, Djel, and all the rest, have taken over the day to day running of things and often go off on adventures of their own; they, in turn, are raising a new generation of grandchildren to take over long after I'm gone.

If I may be permitted an observation: Phil may be gone, but the game continues...

Quote from: Greentongue;842499Yes, helps.
There is no such thing as too many.

So many other ideas are for the "Movers and Shakers" of society which a beginning character rarely is.
(When they are, they don't know the setting well enough or have "anthropology class" expectations.)

I like the, "Those nightmares you were having ... well this morning you awoke in that world.
The first thing you notice is that it is HOT and you are 'Not in Kansas Anymore'.
Strangely, it feels normal and maybe it was that other world you were dreaming about, not this one that is alien.
Something bumping your boat must have awaken you." ... type of game starts.

While "kill them and loot their bodies" is a traditional motivation, it is not something unique to Tekumel.
Nice to mix in sometimes but having setting specific things to do is a big plus.  
=

Happy to be of help! That's what I love about Phil's world - so much to do, and so much to see and explore!!!

Quote from: AsenRG;842501Serious question, wouldn't you provide such information on the spot?
"You see someone using an unorthodox weapon quite willfully."
"Good for him."
"This means he's at least trained by an assassin clan."
"Oh. Didn't we get a noble angry last session?"
Typical conversation at our table. I'm always curious how other people play, though!
(Hey, it helps my games later!)


Fun fact, that's exactly the attitude towards law enforcement in totalitarian states with corrupt law enforcement.


Battles weren't supposed to be fun, last I checked.

If you were able to do it somehow, what would Karajan and Vrimulha think?

True. OG, how long was it IC before you got married off? How did you prove yourself as a valuable asset?

There was more than one player with photographic memory?

And I've also found that exotic settings help, contrary to a popular opinion.

So Mesoamerica follows from Egypt? Sweet! I've always liked the idea that they are related, which Thor Heyerdahl tried to prove with Ra and Ra II.
What can I say, I like the experimental approach to history.

Well, I always mention it - this is something that the players would know.

The Five Empires are totalitarian, and they make no bones about it. Law enforcement is indeed corrupt, which is why most people do it themselves.

As for ending the war, Lord Karakan and Lord Vimuhla would not care; they regard us humans as playthings, and there'll be another war along shortly. In my particular case, Lord Vimuhla is patient; I kill people for a living, after all. As I once remarked to a High Preist I know, "I am a ruthless killer so that I can be a devoted father and family man; the children are alive today because I make sure that any threats to them get dead in very short order."

I don't know who OG was talking about in Gary's campaign - you'll have to find out from him. Keep in mind that we played over a span of four or more decades - we played with a lot of people!

Agreed!

And keep in mind that Phil taught himself to read all three forms of Ancient Egyptian scripts when he was eight years old - he had a huge library on Ancient Egypt!

Quote from: Greentongue;842435I can't control the expectations of my potential players.  

That is, in point of fact, incorrect.  Your first obligation as referee is to clearly communicate your expectations to your players.  Your second obligation is to help your players to formulate appropriate expectations.  Part of the rationale for an exotic locale is that it is DIFFERENT.

Tsolyanu is a shame culture, not a guilt culture.  That alone is a major difference.

Quote from: chirine ba kal;842536May I let Her Ladyship add something?

Phil gamed in 'real time' if it took a year in the game to get from A to B, it took a year in the real world to do it; we spent a lot of time on the road or at sea, having 'encounters' and adventures along the way.

Thanks for the extra info.

The gaming in real time is unusual. I've never done that. Time always moves faster or slower than real life. Unless there is a lot of travel, it moves slower.

Quote from: Old Geezer;842543That is, in point of fact, incorrect.  Your first obligation as referee is to clearly communicate your expectations to your players.  Your second obligation is to help your players to formulate appropriate expectations.  Part of the rationale for an exotic locale is that it is DIFFERENT.

I had made it clear that the characters were starting at the bottom as barbarians 'just off the boat" and the player quit when they had an encounter that reminded them that as a beginning character they had no influence. (Instead of attempting to gain the influence through play.)

Clearly communicating expectations does not means that the player "gets it".
Only actual play reinforces the expectations and by then the game has started.

Quote from: Old Geezer;842543Tsolyanu is a shame culture, not a guilt culture.  That alone is a major difference.

Excellent point!
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Quote from: chirine ba kal;842539The Five Empires are totalitarian, and they make no bones about it. Law enforcement is indeed corrupt, which is why most people do it themselves.

As for ending the war, Lord Karakan and Lord Vimuhla would not care; they regard us humans as playthings, and there'll be another war along shortly. In my particular case, Lord Vimuhla is patient; I kill people for a living, after all. As I once remarked to a High Preist I know, "I am a ruthless killer so that I can be a devoted father and family man; the children are alive today because I make sure that any threats to them get dead in very short order."

And keep in mind that Phil taught himself to read all three forms of Ancient Egyptian scripts when he was eight years old - he had a huge library on Ancient Egypt!

Yeah, that's exactly the attitude-I'm just glad it's reflected in T`ekumel. Way too often I see the big, bad, totalitarian country where everyone is prone to call the local guard.
Yeah, right.

That's exactly the attitude of many PCs. I've been told it's somehow unrealistic, but admit I've still got no idea why.

Well. That's impressive, and I'm putting it mildly here!

Quote from: Old Geezer;842543That is, in point of fact, incorrect.  Your first obligation as referee is to clearly communicate your expectations to your players.  Your second obligation is to help your players to formulate appropriate expectations.  Part of the rationale for an exotic locale is that it is DIFFERENT.

Agreed.

Quote from: Greentongue;842651Clearly communicating expectations does not means that the player "gets it".
Only actual play reinforces the expectations and by then the game has started.

Excellent point!
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Yes, misunderstandings still happen. But as long as you were clear, it's no longer your fault. Or at least you're not the only one at fault!

Quote from: Bren;842641Thanks for the extra info.

The gaming in real time is unusual. I've never done that. Time always moves faster or slower than real life. Unless there is a lot of travel, it moves slower.

I agree, that surprised me as well. Pendragon would be out of question, for instance.
Well, that's the first thing I hear about MAR Barker's style that I'm not sure I like. What's the rationale behind it?

And I found the tale of Old Geezer. The eidetic memory guy is Rob Kuntz!

Quote from: chirine ba kal;842456Have a look at the 'Lord Meren' series of mystery novels - they will provide a lot of good ideas for Tekumel.

* quick Google search *

Dang, I'd never heard of those!  Chirine, old boot, it appears I owe you yet another one...

Quote from: AsenRG;842677And I found the tale of Old Geezer. The eidetic memory guy is Rob Kuntz!

Yep.  Though it's too bad that Chirine wasn't around in my heavy days of underworld crawling... a man with eidetic memory is SO damn handy to have around when you're wondering "Did we get teleported or does my map suck?"

How much are "chops", carved seals, or engraved stamps used?

Assuming they are ...
Are there specific ones for clans, lineages, families, individuals and official usage?
Are they important and treasured for their representative power?  
Can they be duplicated or are there ones that cannot be?
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As far as Korunme's career...

I started off as a barbarian just off the boat.  I was one of the very first group of EPT players using the green covered ditto rules.

We were in the foreigner's quarter of Jakalla at first.  Very soon, Al Muscielewicz, my first wife, and I formed a "mutual defense pact" so that one of us would stand watch while the others slept.  The cheap flop spots in the foreigner's quarters are not safe.  Rather like many modern homeless shelters, sad to say.

Very soon, Moose established himself as heavy muscle for disputes among the fishermen on the river, I was fighting in the arena for pay, and Anka'a was providing halftime entertainment as a nude bareknuckle boxer.  Thus we got enough money to rent a room with a door that actually had a bar.

About the time that I had advanced enough in level that I could leave the foreigners' quarter safely, I joined the army because I figured it would give me a chance to see the world, experience exotic cultures, meet fascinating people, and kill them.  I figured it would be a chance to get the "lay of the land" while at the same time being a soldier would give me a place in Tsolyani society.  Other players as mentioned above were trying to ingratiate themselves into high society, play political games, etc.  I just wanted a place where I knew what was expected of me.  I figured if the Tsolyani army was like every other army in the world throughout time, there would be cheerfully smiling sergeants who would be only too happy to tell me exactly what was expected of me.

It also meant I didn't have to worry about the perils of being a foreigner in Tsolyani society... a soldier is a soldier.

Well, I ended up a Kasi (commander of a cohort of 400) right away.  My crawl up the ranks to Molkar (commander of half a legion) and eventually Kerdu (General) of a Legion took some years.  I was promoted to Kerdu of the Legion of Mnashu of Thri'il just after my marriage.  The previous Kerdu Mnashu had recently been killed and my clan put me forward as the ideal candidate to take the post; young, strong, brave, willing to follow orders, not too bright, and completely expendable.

I eventually drifted out of Tekumel when I hit grad school.  Korunme's wife Nlel had just become pregnant.

As far as future career, I expect ol' Korunme would come home once in a while when the Army let him, shag his wife senseless while he was home, and then wander out into the frontier again, maybe to return some day, maybe to return only as a "We regret to inform you" letter from the Imperium.  Children would be raised in the clan house.

If I were lucky, I'd live out my twenty years in service and retire, perhaps get a small villa somewhere where I would live with my wives and children.  I'm sure Nlel would love some junior wives to boss around, and since Nlel is both smart and kind to me, I'm sure the junior wives would be pretty.... but not QUITE as pretty as Nlel.


In such ways are foreigners assimilated into the Tsolyani Empire.

Quote from: Bren;842641Thanks for the extra info.

The gaming in real time is unusual. I've never done that. Time always moves faster or slower than real life. Unless there is a lot of travel, it moves slower.

Well, this was back in the 1974 - 1976 era; nobody really had much of any experience running a long-term RPG campaign. Phil kept very detailed records on what happened over the course of a week, and would roll for each day of the week at the beginning of a game session. if anything turned up on the encounter tables, we'd play 'Tuesday's encounter with the six bandits', and then get on with the campaign.

It got to be a running joke, to the point where I made a little folding deck chair to go with my personality figure when we went off on voyages with Capt. Harchar. We'd set sail, and on the off days when we weren't fighing off pirates or Hlyss nest-ships I's sit in me deck chair and watch the waves go by. Very restful, and very relaxing. Not that I let my guard down, of course...

Quote from: Old Geezer;842700* quick Google search *

Dang, I'd never heard of those!  Chirine, old boot, it appears I owe you yet another one...

I try. I think Phil would have loved these; he would have reveled in all the little details, as he had most of them in his books - did you know he was a friend of Dr. Otto Schaden, an Egyptologist you see on TV all the time?

Of course, we would have hated it; we'd be up to our hips in murdered people instantly, and told by the Imperium to investigate the crimes forthwith. Would have been fun to watch Phil run a murder mystery, though...