Quote from: Greentongue;840098How can you do so when everything is alien without obvious clues?

Tell the players what their characters would know or can deduce.

QuoteAt what point in your gaming does "Game" override "Simulation"?

At the point where simulation is way too much work and stops being entertaining. Since I'm running a historical game, I'm probably pretty far down the simulation curve from the average GM.

Quote from: chirine ba kal;840102Do people use index cards, anymore,?

I stopped after I started including pictures on the character sheets and then switched to MS-Word character sheets. The fact that my penmanship and printing skills have deteriorated has absolutely nothing to do with it. Really.

Quote from: Old Geezer;840264Re clothing, etc; there have been several societies, including ancient Sumer and ancient Egypt, where a person's clothing identified them quite precisely; "mid level priest," "low status workman," "royal official with access to the monarch," "wife of important military man," etc.  Phil, knowing this, used it.  There is a difference between "you know this person is a scholar priest of Ksarul of middle status" and "you know this person is a 5th level magic user with 17 hit points blah blah blah."

Tekumel always struck me at that sort of society, probably more status conscious, or at least with more hierarchies and levels in the hierarchies than Sumer or Egypt. It's one of the things I like about Tekumel and found fascinating in Man of Gold.

But my example was a more or less faux medieval setting. Being able to tell status to the exact level was just silly. So we changed it.

Quote from: Bren;840296But my example was a more or less faux medieval setting. Being able to tell status to the exact level was just silly. So we changed it.

Well, sure.  I just work off the notion that the PCs aren't the only people who go up levels.

"His attire tells you he is rich.  There is a squire bearing a sword on a cushion before him, which tells you he is a knight.  Think he's first level?"

Sumptuary laws are very medieval Anglo-French.

Quote from: Old Geezer;840325Well, sure.  I just work off the notion that the PCs aren't the only people who go up levels.

"His attire tells you he is rich.  There is a squire bearing a sword on a cushion before him, which tells you he is a knight.  Think he's first level?"

Sumptuary laws are very medieval Anglo-French.

Yes. Yes. Back when I played level based games NPCs had levels too. And I'm familiar with sumptuary laws.

You don't seem to be grasping what I am saying or you are ignoring it. Knowing he is a knight and thus not first level is way different than knowing the exact level and class of both the knight and his squire. It's the difference between this

   "You can see that the warrior wears a fine surcoat with a coat of arms over a full mail coat that you can see has been repaired at least once by an expert smith, the pommel of his sword has a gem set in it, but you can tell from the sweat stains on the hilt that he doesn't just wear that sword for show."And this

   "The knight is a Swashbuckler in AC-4, standing next to him he has a Swordsman as his squire."

Which is the equivalent of the knight wearing a big number 5 emblazoned on the knight's surcoat, a 3 painted on the squire's helmet, and to continue the example, and a bunch of 8's woven in among the moons and stars on the court wizard's robe and hat.

Quote from: Old Geezer;840015Nobody seems to write Sword & Sorcery any more.  Lieber's first Fafhrd & Grey Mouser story was originally titled "Two Sought Adventure."  What ever happened to adventurers who adventured for the sake of adventure?

Well, when I get around to writing the game-book for my DCC campaign, I guess you'll like it.  It is very much "adventure for its own ridiculous sake".

Quote from: Old Geezer;840264Re clothing, etc; there have been several societies, including ancient Sumer and ancient Egypt, where a person's clothing identified them quite precisely; "mid level priest," "low status workman," "royal official with access to the monarch," "wife of important military man," etc.  Phil, knowing this, used it.  There is a difference between "you know this person is a scholar priest of Ksarul of middle status" and "you know this person is a 5th level magic user with 17 hit points blah blah blah."

Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I can't remember a single situation in Phil's games where we actually found out how many hit points somebody or something had - either we killed them, or they killed us...

Quote from: Old Geezer;840269

And I agree with the next paragraph... don't punish players for not knowing what their characters would know easily.  That was another bad trend of Phil falling into the aforementioned Villainous Company, though he did indeed "get better."

Agreed!

Quote from: AsenRG;840283Since you mentioned armour, chirine, are there different fighting schools detailed in the setting lore? Are there known differences in regional (or even caste) styles?
Have such distinctions ever been important in your game?
What real world combat arts do Tekumel arts resemble the most:D?

I agree with your points, there.

Yes, there are. All sorts of martial arts using weapons, and also a few schools of unarmed ones known to specialists. Unarmed combat is considered a little 'low class', usually by those getting beaten up by the people who know the style being used...

There's everything between the classic 'peasant with a club' - do not annoy the farmers! - to the fancy young nobleman with a rapier. Some cities are known for particular weapons - Tumissa is famous for crossbows, Makhis for archers, Vra for slingers, and so on.

And yes, the distinction has been important, over the years - the non-human Pe Choi and the Ahoggya are famous for their ability to fight with weapons in all for of their hands. Dexterity is very important for this kind of thing. One quite famous human discipline is the 'Arruche' style, with a weapon in each hand - 'Florentine' style, if you would. My alter ego fights this way, with usually a dagger and shortsword combination, or with a mace and buckler. Getting up close and personal is a survival technique, as one can get 'inside' an opponent's reach and score. It helps that Chirine is ambidextrous - I am as well, which is how I 'sold' it to Phil after a demonstration. (I had a nasty habit of flipping my epee or foil between hands in informal bouts; never worked against me dad, who was a champion fencer and used to such things! I still have his foil, too! )

Let's see; 'Florentine', savate, kenjitsu, judo or kenjitsu (rare, thankfully!), any of the missile weapon arts. I think there's a list in EPT; I know there is in S&G I, The Sourcebook. I think that between the Glorious General and I, I think we've seen anything and everything used - which is why we try to duck a lot!

Quote from: Spinachcat;840285Absolutely!

I find this helps immersion and gameplay. Instead of endless Perception, Knowledge or INT rolls, its better to say "your mage has seen costumes like those before in his studies, they are only worn for rituals invoking the moon gods."

Yep; same here!

Quote from: Bren;840331Yes. Yes. Back when I played level based games NPCs had levels too. And I'm familiar with sumptuary laws.

You don't seem to be grasping what I am saying or you are ignoring it. Knowing he is a knight and thus not first level is way different than knowing the exact level and class of both the knight and his squire. It's the difference between this

   "You can see that the warrior wears a fine surcoat with a coat of arms over a full mail coat that you can see has been repaired at least once by an expert smith, the pommel of his sword has a gem set in it, but you can tell from the sweat stains on the hilt that he doesn't just wear that sword for show."And this

   "The knight is a Swashbuckler in AC-4, standing next to him he has a Swordsman as his squire."

Which is the equivalent of the knight wearing a big number 5 emblazoned on the knight's surcoat, a 3 painted on the squire's helmet, and to continue the example, and a bunch of 8's woven in among the moons and stars on the court wizard's robe and hat.

I was agreeing with you.

Quote from: Old Geezer;840551I was agreeing with you.

Oh....my bad. Sometimes you are so curmudgeonly I can't tell.

Quote from: Bren;840594Oh....my bad. Sometimes you are so curmudgeonly I can't tell.

It's the result of decades of practice.

Well, I have to say, in the entire history of my being aware of Tekumel's existence, no one has managed to make it seem as appealing as Chirine.

Quote from: RPGPundit;840658Well, I have to say, in the entire history of my being aware of Tekumel's existence, no one has managed to make it seem as appealing as Chirine.

It's because he was never self-conscious about his hobbies and thus felt no need to promote the idea that "This is not a game, this is A NARTFORM" by emphasizing the sociological and linguistic elements to the exclusion of running around being chased by monsters.

Phil used the sociological and linguistic elements as spice, not the main ingredients.

Quote from: RPGPundit;840658Well, I have to say, in the entire history of my being aware of Tekumel's existence, no one has managed to make it seem as appealing as Chirine.

Well, Tekumel was fun, and very appealing for us - we stayed for a lot of years, listening to Phil spin yarns and occasionally rolling dice. 'Our' Tekumel was full of action, adventure, and even romance - the night Phil married me off to lady Si N'te was one of the very best nights we ever had with him - ever! We were out and about during a local ritual, and Phil was at the top of his form describing it all for us; you tell he was getting it from real life, and describing something he'd seen in his time in India.

I have been both astonished and horrified to see what people think is Tekumel, in various on-line places and discussions; all serious and sociological and ethnographic, with the supposed requirement that you had to know the languages in order to play. Tekumel is not 'impenetrable' or 'unapproachable', at least in the way Phil played it with us. I gather that in the middle 1990's things got Very Serious, and you acted like you were after a degree or something.

No, that wasn't 'our' Tekumel in the original Thursday Night Group; we were the people who thrilled to the battle-cry of:

"Kaor, my Princess! Helium, now and forever!!!"

Quote from: Old Geezer;840666It's because he was never self-conscious about his hobbies and thus felt no need to promote the idea that "This is not a game, this is A NARTFORM" by emphasizing the sociological and linguistic elements to the exclusion of running around being chased by monsters.

Phil used the sociological and linguistic elements as spice, not the main ingredients.

Agreed; Phil never force-fed any of that to us; we just did it, absorbing it along the way.

Maybe I'm just getting old, but whatever happened to the sheer joy of playing with healthy doses of laughter along the way? Like the time you personally routed Baron Ald's super-elite guards by running into his camp whilst shrieking mad cries and leaping into, over, and through the camp fire in front of his tent - and not once, but twice? (This was after the Storming of Castle Tilketl, for anyone who's taking notes.) The Baron was mightily impressed, his guards all panicked, and Lord Fu Shi (the most powerful of powerful sorcerers!) got really annoyed.

Wonderful game, great adventure, and you thoughtfully didn't mention to any of them that the reason you were running into their camp was that you had gotten nasty biting ants in your kilt...

Folks, we couldn't make this stuff up - we had fun, we laughed our heads off, and we explored Phil's astonishing creation. No pretense, no worrying about 'prestige', no worries about 'serious art'; we just went out there and were John Carter, Dejah Thoris, Conan, Fafhrd, the Grey Mouser, and all the other people who lived in our imaginations.

It was Tekumel, it was Greyhawk, it was Blackmoor, it was Barsoom, it was Newhon, it was Aquilonia, it was The Mountains of Madness, it was The Moon Pool; it was a bunch of people having fun in friend's basements and at Coffman Union - third floor, Tuesday nights and occasional Saturdays when we wanted to run really big games.

It was a laugh, it was...