Quote from: chirine ba kal;8386691. You have it, sir - it was the most boring battle I'd ever seen, and they finally stopped play and called it a draw.

2. No idea - the subject never came up in the games. May I suggest Phil's discussion on the subject in "Ebon Bindings"? It's the best thing I can suggest.

3. Same for ritual purity; there are some snippets here and there, like  the priests of Qon don't eat onions for ritual reasons and priests of Vimuhla like me are supposed to avoid eating fish. I took issue with Phil over this; he claimed that it was because fish live in water, and water puts out flame, hence fish are offensive to Lord Vimuhla, Lord of Flame and War. I. for my part, pointed out that eating fish was a manifestation of the divine power of Lord Vimuhla to vanquish the forces that tried to stymie him, and so eating fish was a holy act of worship.

Phil's comment was "You just like eating fish." My reply was "Well, yes, but you have to agree that I have a point, theologically speaking." Phil had to see the logic in that, so now really fanatic worshippers in my temple eat fish. I have a sect and everything!

4. Yes; observance is very important in the cultural context. I made sure to be a pretty good member of the temple, and it did further my career. And yes, large donations to make a difference - it can indeed get you a better position in spite of your clan.

6. and 7. yes, and yes.

1, 2 and 3, got that. I need some more materials, or making it up myself.
I get the feeling that the latter would be in line with what the Professor would have expected from any Referee.
Also, religions and sects have started over more stupid things than liking fish, so I find that surprisingly fitting (though I doubt I'd agree with your logic, the goal of any religion being to emulate the god or goddess' essence).

4.-7. Glad I've got that right. Seems like my mental pattern for Tsoyliani society is at least partially right.

Quote from: chirine ba kal;838676And I'm back...

1. What I find delightful about IKEA is that in addition to the usual and pretty normal household stuff, they do have some very odd items tucked away in the back corners that are really useful for games and such. I once ran a game that was took place at night, and all the players had to see by were the lanterns that they were carrying. I simulated this on the game table with IKEA 'solvinden' LCD lights, with 'stolpen' LCds in the miniature buildings. It was hysterical; people had a great time, stumbling around in the dark - yes, the room lights were off. (Photos on my Photobucket page, for your amusement.) I've also found plenty of Tsolyani home furnishings there as well; everything from rugs and mats to handy chinaware that will fit in a backpack. I refuse to be uncomfortable on my adventures, thank you.

2. Agreed, which is why I think an active fan base/community is vital for Tekumel's survival.

3. I have no idea how I came to be able to read and absorb data so quickly. I am told by the doctors that my brain shows a lot of activity on both sides all the time, which is why I am slightly dyslexic - and ambidextrous as well. They think that this is why I recovered from my brain bleed back in 2013 so quickly; I just use more of the wetware, it seems. (I also have ten identical fingerprints; make of that what you will. I am pretty odd, I guess.)

4. I still have very mixed feelings about the 'grimdark' comment; it was more like "I had a miserable time gaming in Tekumel with Phil, so you should have too and not made it sound so fun." Well, all right, but I did have fun. And, as OG can tell you, there were some pretty nasty moments in our careers - Phil had seen it all, over the years, and didn't soft-pedal anything.

5. Nope; this is Blackmoor, after all. The locals just made him marry the beast. It was a wonderful wedding, but we had to toss the bride's bouquet to keep her from eating it. The reception was a lot of fun, too.

6. Re OG's comment, no, they weren't. They were very self-centered, and very insecure, and really manipulated Phil and his world for their own ends.

7. I do agree with you about the languages, by the way. This is part of what OG was talking about - back in our time with Phil, the languages were there for the fun of it and for handy plot devices. In the middle 1990s, they became a status symbol - if you were in the 'elite', you knew the languages; if you weren't, you were one of the common herd. It was a difference in emphasis; we played with the languages because it was fun, and we didn't lord it over the rest of the world because we could do glottal stops.

8. Hugely amused by your Klingon comment - I've been a 'Star Trek' fan since 1968, and I find the Klingons bemusing. My all time favorite Klingon costume was a guy who did the Klingons from the 'Mirror, Mirror universe'; the other Klingon fans had a collective fit, but it was delightfully funny to see!

9. I hope you'll be amused at our attempts to stay alive!

1. I can only say you put much more effort than me in props.

2. Agreed.

3. That's interesting. Too bad you don't have tips on how it can be learned.
Also, you'd suck as a criminal, one fingerprint and that's it:)!
That's a compliment, in case anyone is wondering;).

4. I wasn't there, no idea how it was intended. Me, I think that the ability of some of us to derive pleasure from or despite of the suffering of characters is what makes grimdark fun.

5. Too bad. How often can you say you've eaten your wife and not have it sound gross?

6. It reminds me of some contemporary gaming companies for some reason...
 
7. Well, I've had experience only with people that think being able to speak a made-up language made them somehow better...so it's on them that I find the idea amusing.
It doesn't help that their attempt to explain how much better people can be for speaking languages of a nameless property (NOT Tekumel) crashed hard when we discovered that I speak more real world languages than the made-up and real-world tongues mastered by the guy promoting the idea...
So yeah, chalk it up to stupid fans. Besides, if I want to use another language, I'd just learn spoken Chinese or German, and put it to use as a Tekumeli tongue. I've done that with French, when I knew nobody but me in the group speaks French.

8. Well, I'm not a Star Trek fan, so can't comment. I just quoted almost verbatim the reply of one of my players.

9. I promise to be amused, as long as you promise to not stop trying;)!

Quote from: chirine ba kal;838678Couldn't agree with you more! My particular hobby is model building, which does come in handy for gaming. My games are a way to show off my work, I guess...

Huh, interesting, but I also try and bring elements of my other hobbies into roleplaying. Guess it's common...

QuoteI do feel the same way that you do - tempests in a teapot.

I've used the same phrase before...though I didn't know it exists in English!
(Storm in a waterglass is how we say it in Bulgarian).

QuoteWhat I've found baffling over the last five years is that when people tell me how we are supposed to have gamed back in the day, and I mention that (in my own personal experience, of course) we didn't do it that way, it's like I am questioning their religious beliefs of something.

Go to a martial arts demonstration. Tell the instructor people don't attack with knives that way, and for that matter, they don't punch that way, either.
You're likely to witness the same phenomenon (or to find a really cool instructor).

Quote from: Bren;838693As long as you cook the fish. Sashimi is blasphemous to Lord Vimuhla and disrespectful to all our ancestors who first learned to use fire.

I have read the odd forum post from people who started gaming in the 1990s or are too young to have even been alive when we were first started gaming talking about how things were back in the day. I think if they were talking about me or other real people I knew and gamed with I'd get more upset. In a way I am fortunate that the names from my early gaming are virtually unknown in gaming circles so it is easier from me to ignore rpginnical scholarly arguments.

I think there is a difference between those that claim to know, and those that admit that the post is them extrapolating on accessible sources.

Quote from: Premier;838715"Cooking" is a dangerously vague word and is close to heresy. It could potentially include steaming or boiling the fish, or making fish soup!

For a follower of Lord Vimuhla, the only accceptable way to prepare a fish is to roast it over an open fire!

Quote from: Bren;838721Grilling is also acceptable. Frying is still under disputation.

All this is just as far as I am concerned. I've almost but never  quite run EPT, so take my opinion for what it is worth, which is about 1 Kaitar.

Frying? You mean you're from the oil-using sect:D?

Quote from: AsenRG;838731I think there is a difference between those that claim to know, and those that admit that the post is them extrapolating on accessible sources.

Yes indeed.

Quote from: AsenRG;838731Frying? You mean you're from the oil-using sect:D?

NO I CERTAINLY AM NOT!!!!

Those people are wrong-headed, delusional fools, one step removed from heresy. They tread on the steps that lead to the path of utter darkness and someday soon I trust that Lord Vimuhla will illuminate that truth to the Council of the Eternal Flame so that we can unite in righteous condemnation of such semi-heretical beliefs and purify our doctrine once and for all.

Followers of Karakan know that the proper way to cook fish is to hang it on the lightning attractors and let the God decide how it should be cooked.

Rumors that Chirine and his pals used to lounge about atop the temple of Vimuhla and place bets on which sacrifice to Karakan would get zotzed by the God next are entirely true.

Quote from: Bren;838693As long as you cook the fish. Sashimi is blasphemous to Lord Vimuhla and disrespectful to all our ancestors who first learned to use fire.

I have read the odd forum post from people who started gaming in the 1990s or are too young to have even been alive when we were first started gaming talking about how things were back in the day. I think if they were talking about me or other real people I knew and gamed with I'd get more upset. In a way I am fortunate that the names from my early gaming are virtually unknown in gaming circles so it is easier from me to ignore rpginnical scholarly arguments.

Agreed; the locals here in the Isles like raw fish, but I like them anyway.

Yep; I've had much the same experience; what baffles me is the reaction to the discovery that some of us old farts are still alive and still gaming.

Quote from: Greentongue;838694Before something horrible happens, you and OG need to get this stuff in writing.

So a new generation of "scholars" can start the "True TRUE Way" cults.

Actually I have a self interest of confirming that I'm not forgetful and the way you played WAS the way I remembered and not just how I wished it was.

I keep trying to go back to EPT and run a GAME but there are so many new expectations that it never gets far.

Have you ever been able to tell if your play style is transferable?

When you run a game at a public event, do you ever see "the lights come on" in the faces of any players?
=

We're working on it.

I genuinely don't know if my play style is transferable or even teachable. I try as much as I can to explain how and why what I'm doing, which is why I have the blog, the You Tube, and the Photobucket outlets.

As for the lights coming on, yes, I do get that on occasion. This past year's gary Con Tekumel RPG had that, from all of the players. Ask OG; he was there. It was one heck of a game - I had the fight of my life!

Quote from: Premier;838715"Cooking" is a dangerously vague word and is close to heresy. It could potentially include steaming or boiling the fish, or making fish soup!

For a follower of Lord Vimuhla, the only accceptable way to prepare a fish is to roast it over an open fire!

Grilling. It's the only way. Once the Sacred Spices have been applied to purify the sacrifice, of course. A little drawn butter also pleases the Lord of Flame, too.

Lord Vimuhla is very understanding though. If you are stuck on the damn boat with Harchar for six months, all is forgiven.

Quote from: Bren;838721Grilling is also acceptable. Frying is still under disputation.

All this is just as far as I am concerned. I've almost but never  quite run EPT, so take my opinion for what it is worth, which is about 1 Kaitar.

Frying?!? Nope; grilling over an open fire. Can't get any better then that, especially when the officiant at the sacrifice perfumes the nostrils of the God with aromatic woods.

Quote from: AsenRG;838724If it was detailed enough that you're sure there weren't holes like that, I agree. That's bullshit.
Of course, we then get to chirine's comment "should have got it in the playtesting stage". Which I agree totally with.


I find the real-world research improves my games as well. Funny fact, it manages to improve them even when I'm researching trivia while running deliberately over-the-top games.
(I don't know whether you're familiar with Exalted or Feng Shui 2, but imagine a game where your PCs stats were the default for a starting character, and you have FS2. It's a game emulating Hong Kong action movies, after all. Somehow, I manage to get knowledge of how sucker punching happens into it, and it's to the benefit of the game).
Still, unless you rely on all the Referees being "generalists", it's better if the game designers do the heavy lifting. As an example, I'd give you Artesia and Legends of the Wulin. Nobody reminds you to do ritual purification before entering the temple, when playing Artesia. You just get a penalty to your communion rolls, which keep you centered and balanced among other stuff. Nobody reminds you to consult a predictionist with bad reputation in Legend of the Wulin before engaging a major enemy, either. You just want to stick a penalty on your likely enemies:D!

Lots of typing ahead.

Courtrai is one of the exceptions that proves the concept. I specifically put this kind of thing into my rules, along with caltrops, stakes, and other such devices. Very helpful, assuming that you have time to deploy them.

Quote from: AsenRG;8387261, 2 and 3, got that. I need some more materials, or making it up myself.
I get the feeling that the latter would be in line with what the Professor would have expected from any Referee.
Also, religions and sects have started over more stupid things than liking fish, so I find that surprisingly fitting (though I doubt I'd agree with your logic, the goal of any religion being to emulate the god or goddess' essence).

4.-7. Glad I've got that right. Seems like my mental pattern for Tsoyliani society is at least partially right.

Agreed. Make something up; Phil did it all the time, like when Eyloa the Wizard got turned into a talking blue fish by Lord Fu Hsi. Imagine me having to carry his little piscene grumpiness around in a custom glass bowl for several month's worth of adventures; he looked like those grump beta fish you can find at all pet stores, the ones with the long flowing fins. Since they are air breathers, Elyoa - being a player character - kept trying to cast spells, with predictable results. He also wouldn't shut up, and finally got to be a sort of minor god, The Talking Blue Fish, and had a temple / shrine dedicated to him in Khirgar. There's even a gate with his image in tile.

I had my revenge, though. I had a glass blower make him a little temple for his bowl...

Quote from: chirine ba kal;838775Yep; I've had much the same experience; what baffles me is the reaction to the discovery that some of us old farts are still alive and still gaming.

Kids...what ya gonna do? Can't get them to stay off the damn lawn, can't get them to mow the damn lawn.

Quote from: AsenRG;8387291. I can only say you put much more effort than me in props.

2. Agreed.

3. That's interesting. Too bad you don't have tips on how it can be learned.
Also, you'd suck as a criminal, one fingerprint and that's it:)!
That's a compliment, in case anyone is wondering;).

4. I wasn't there, no idea how it was intended. Me, I think that the ability of some of us to derive pleasure from or despite of the suffering of characters is what makes grimdark fun.

5. Too bad. How often can you say you've eaten your wife and not have it sound gross?

6. It reminds me of some contemporary gaming companies for some reason...
 
7. Well, I've had experience only with people that think being able to speak a made-up language made them somehow better...so it's on them that I find the idea amusing.
It doesn't help that their attempt to explain how much better people can be for speaking languages of a nameless property (NOT Tekumel) crashed hard when we discovered that I speak more real world languages than the made-up and real-world tongues mastered by the guy promoting the idea...
So yeah, chalk it up to stupid fans. Besides, if I want to use another language, I'd just learn spoken Chinese or German, and put it to use as a Tekumeli tongue. I've done that with French, when I knew nobody but me in the group speaks French.

8. Well, I'm not a Star Trek fan, so can't comment. I just quoted almost verbatim the reply of one of my players.

9. I promise to be amused, as long as you promise to not stop trying;)!

1. I'm a model builder; what can I say? I love props, just like Phil did, and I've been accumulating them for some forty years; I have a basement full of this kind of thing.

Agreed with the rest of your points, too; very trenchant observations!

Quote from: Old Geezer;838768Followers of Karakan know that the proper way to cook fish is to hang it on the lightning attractors and let the God decide how it should be cooked.

Rumors that Chirine and his pals used to lounge about atop the temple of Vimuhla and place bets on which sacrifice to Karakan would get zotzed by the God next are entirely true.

Well, yes, especially during the dry season. We did consider it very unsporting and quite gauche to ask the Temple of Avanthe to conjure up a little thunderstorm right over the Temple of Karakan, just to get their hopes up...

The running joke over at our temple was that you could die of old age, if you were waiting to be sacrificed to Lord Karakan; it seemed to be a pretty cushy job, just lying there on the altar for months and getting fed three times a day and trying not to get bored...

Fantastic thread. Thanks Chirine, Old Geezer, and all those asking questions!