Quote from: Headless;959098Question about the arc of the hobby.  Or maybe just the market.

BTW thanks for starting a new thread.  I quit reading the other one at about 50 pages.  Just too big.

So now where I live (admitibly a small place) we have two gaming stores.  They carry D&D in a couple different flavors.  New and new only in one.  The other has a small random and savagely used selection of other gaming stuff. Like the smallest discarded detritus of a lost empire.

That and a few other things (converstaions with my used book dealer) gives me an Idea that the glorious empire really did exist once.  

A half dozen systems, with rule books, supplements and modules.  A brisk trade in used books as gaming groups tried stuff out, played through modules and traded them back in.

Cheep figures new and used under glass and plastic.

Is it real?  Did it ever exist?  Have you been there?  

There seems to be a tonne of stuff now but its all online.  Has it always been that way?

I notice from another thread that we seem to be in the same area. Which is the store that has used stuff?

BTW I can assure you that even this small city once had outposts of that glorious empire. Back in the 70s there was a nice little shop on Barrington. They carried some of the Tekumel stuff of that era, it's where I got my Ebon Bindings, my Legions of the Petal Throne and my William Murray figures. When I moved here permanently about 25 yrs ago, there was a comic shop on Robie where the shelves groaned with used game books. Diverse and cheap. I picked up 2 copies of Swords and Glory there as well as Man of Gold and Flamesong.

I wouldn't know where to look for such things now though (except, as you say, online)

If someone came from some remote place where the ban against the worship of the One Other (or something similar) never reached, how would the be treated? What if they were an ambassador or trade legation? Seems like everybody wants to trade, even with some rinky dinky place- especially if they have some nice cache of goodies, but would that be too far?

The mention of Mihallu is what sparked this thought. In the novel everyone looks at them as out of their gourds for thinking that the Priestkings are still in business and Ganga is still above water, even continuing to send messages and such back to the main office, if you will. The idea of running into an enclave of dutiful members of the Empire who don't know that their faith is now verbotten is similar.

Quote from: Zirunel;959353I notice from another thread that we seem to be in the same area. Which is the store that has used stuff?

BTW I can assure you that even this small city once had outposts of that glorious empire. Back in the 70s there was a nice little shop on Barrington. They carried some of the Tekumel stuff of that era, it's where I got my Ebon Bindings, my Legions of the Petal Throne and my William Murray figures. When I moved here permanently about 25 yrs ago, there was a comic shop on Robie where the shelves groaned with used game books. Diverse and cheap. I picked up 2 copies of Swords and Glory there as well as Man of Gold and Flamesong.

I wouldn't know where to look for such things now though (except, as you say, online)

I also remember a similar situation in my home town. Back in ye olden dayes there were at least 4 or 5 game stores (FLGS) in town all packed with minis, and every comic shop had a D&D section, which invariably was also an RPG section as well. In any given mall you could also find a national book store franchise which had a large D&D section -no minis however. There was also a game store franchise which could be found in the larger malls and they carried minis - a wonderful thing for a suburban kid who couldn't make the trek down town.
We even had one place right down town that was an old bank or insurance building, I believe, that had four floors packed with all types of games, PC's, etc, and an entire floor dedicated to just D&D. The late 70's and early to mid 80's was a great time for RPG availability as I recall. Unfortunately Tekumel products were as rare as hen's teeth up here. I didn't get my copy of EPT until the mid 80's, and Ebon Bindings until 90-91(:confused:), both of which are the DW publications.
These days I think online would be the only place to get Tekumel products.

Quote from: Hermes Serpent;959341Ran a nice little Tekumel dungeon crawl at the weekend. I was at a weekend con in Sheffield UK and ran a game that had folks from the temple of Thumis looking for a stolen image of Thumis that had been taken to embarrass the conservative faction of the temple. As it was an introduction to the world of the Petal Throne I ran it more as a "this is just like any other FRPG and not impenetrable at all" game and the fact that they didn't know much about the creatures they saw except for a description and some INT based information/rumours made it a load of fun - do we fight or run? For a starting game I ran it using Brett Slocum's Petal Hack, a very simple OSR ruleset to make the focus on the setting not the rules.

Well done, 'cause that's a perfect way of introducing the world to new players. Stay simple, and simply focus on a tiny portion of the world. 'cause really, in the end, Tekumel is like any other RPG: lots of high-adventure possibilities full of monsters, treasures, dungeons, kidnappings, psionic powers, magic, living-dead creatures, crazy drugs, other dimensions, pulp-SF tech, monsters, etc ... with the added bonus of being to able to gradually get your players acquainted with the somewhat unusual social mores that structure the world's cultures.

Quote from: chirine ba kal;959265It's a pretty mixed bag, from what we saw in our time there. Dlamelish is very big - hence the legion - but Ksarul and Gruganu are as well; I think there was another legion based there devoted to Gruganu, but I'd have to look it up. Some very odd pockets of old Vimuhla people - which is where my legion comes from - and some strong Sarku people in the city of Hekellu proper.

Out in the Protectorate, it's less about Pavar and more about the tribal stuff - more like Yan Kor, actually. The further out from Hekellu you get, the less 'civilized' it gets.

Excellent. Thanks again for the info. My Chaigari side campaign is gaining traction, and I think the party will be moving towards Hekellu soon so it's nice to know what they can expect to find as far as customs and beliefs go.
One thing though, seeing as how the country side is "less civilised" would it be fair to say that a lot of old traditions exist which predate Pavar and his pantheon? For example, would it be surprising to find isolated pockets of Pariah worship, or even that of other unknown entities? Would the gods of Killalammu be somewhat more prevalent?
Would this type of thing be typical in Phil's game, i.e. once you get out into the boonies, and away from the familiar and ordered, the rules changed, and although the gods of Pavar were the "official" and state sanctioned ones there were others that were also worshiped and, perhaps, had been for a long time before Vimuhla, Sarku, Ksarul, etc came along?

Quote from: Shemek hiTankolel;959376I also remember a similar situation in my home town. Back in ye olden dayes there were at least 4 or 5 game stores (FLGS) in town all packed with minis, and every comic shop had a D&D section, which invariably was also an RPG section as well. In any given mall you could also find a national book store franchise which had a large D&D section -no minis however. There was also a game store franchise which could be found in the larger malls and they carried minis - a wonderful thing for a suburban kid who couldn't make the trek down town.
We even had one place right down town that was an old bank or insurance building, I believe, that had four floors packed with all types of games, PC's, etc, and an entire floor dedicated to just D&D. The late 70's and early to mid 80's was a great time for RPG availability as I recall. Unfortunately Tekumel products were as rare as hen's teeth up here. I didn't get my copy of EPT until the mid 80's, and Ebon Bindings until 90-91(:confused:), both of which are the DW publications.
These days I think online would be the only place to get Tekumel products.

At the risk of going all "Four Yorkshiremen" on you, it sounds like you grew up in a larger, better-served place than where I live.

The fact that the one small shop here in the 70s chose to carry Tekumel things seems, in retrospect, like improbable good fortune. Luck of the draw.

That said, I think the small retailers back then were more catholic and more adventurous in what they chose to stock. Less tied to entrenched Big Publishers, they'd give anything a try. It was a pretty free-wheelin age when it came to rpgs. Rpgs were all so new and exciting, and who knew what might be the next Big Thing..

Quote from: Hermes Serpent;959341Ran a nice little Tekumel dungeon crawl at the weekend. I was at a weekend con in Sheffield UK and ran a game that had folks from the temple of Thumis looking for a stolen image of Thumis that had been taken to embarrass the conservative faction of the temple. As it was an introduction to the world of the Petal Throne I ran it more as a "this is just like any other FRPG and not impenetrable at all" game and the fact that they didn't know much about the creatures they saw except for a description and some INT based information/rumours made it a load of fun - do we fight or run? For a starting game I ran it using Brett Slocum's Petal Hack, a very simple OSR ruleset to make the focus on the setting not the rules.

Wonderful! Just wonderful!!!

Quote from: Big Andy;959358If someone came from some remote place where the ban against the worship of the One Other (or something similar) never reached, how would the be treated? What if they were an ambassador or trade legation? Seems like everybody wants to trade, even with some rinky dinky place- especially if they have some nice cache of goodies, but would that be too far?

The mention of Mihallu is what sparked this thought. In the novel everyone looks at them as out of their gourds for thinking that the Priestkings are still in business and Ganga is still above water, even continuing to send messages and such back to the main office, if you will. The idea of running into an enclave of dutiful members of the Empire who don't know that their faith is now verbotten is similar.

I would think that they be treated politely - but that somebody at the frontier, either the guard post (if there is one) or the local village headman would let them know what the situation was. If they kept quiet about it, and stayed out of the central portions of the Five Empires, they'd probably be all right - out on the borders, people tend not to ask a lot of questions and are much more interested in the color of your money. Closer in to the central governments, more questions would get asked and more possibility of unhappy answers.

I happen to know of several places where the One Other is still worshipped, by the way.

The comparison with Mihallu is very apt, too. For them, their worldview is the correct one, and ours is the crazy talk. Had this come up in Phil's campaign, where Vrisa had to go off to the Nyemesel Isles to investigate a claim that her family were the hereditary fief-holders of the old Engsvanyali province there. We all thought it was a goofy idea, but it turned out to be correct - she was and is the Fiefholder of the islands, and the High Council of the Temple of Mretten (the theocracy that rules the place) anointed her as their absolute ruler. They, of course, also trotted out their certificates that established them as her loyal Regency Council; they run the place, and she (when in residence) kisses babies, cuts ribbons to open things, and all the usual stuff a good monarch does to keep the tourists happy. Her brother is her Viceroy and resident in the islands - mostly to keep him from getting killed in the nasty politics of Saa Alliqui (they make the Successors' antics look sane) - and I serve as the armored fist of the Fiefholder and the Regency Council. We regularly send reports back to Ganga, too. Never do get an answer, but the formalities are observed. Which, in Tekumel, is what counts.

Quote from: Shemek hiTankolel;959380Excellent. Thanks again for the info. My Chaigari side campaign is gaining traction, and I think the party will be moving towards Hekellu soon so it's nice to know what they can expect to find as far as customs and beliefs go.
One thing though, seeing as how the country side is "less civilised" would it be fair to say that a lot of old traditions exist which predate Pavar and his pantheon? For example, would it be surprising to find isolated pockets of Pariah worship, or even that of other unknown entities? Would the gods of Killalammu be somewhat more prevalent?
Would this type of thing be typical in Phil's game, i.e. once you get out into the boonies, and away from the familiar and ordered, the rules changed, and although the gods of Pavar were the "official" and state sanctioned ones there were others that were also worshiped and, perhaps, had been for a long time before Vimuhla, Sarku, Ksarul, etc came along?

Yes, on all counts. Once we got out of the central part of any of the Five Empires, and out into the rural and remote areas, things got a lot more 'fuzzy' pretty quickly. Phil had all sorts of local deities and customs to put on the table, and so while the Twenty were usually represented in some form, the locals had all sorts of good stuff for us to see. I think he mentions this in the Sourcebook, and also in the Blue Room posts. The old netbook, "Gods of Yan Kor", has a lot on this; I think you can get it on DriveThruRPG these days.

If you ned any local details or color, let me know.

Quote from: chirine ba kal;959443Yes, on all counts. Once we got out of the central part of any of the Five Empires, and out into the rural and remote areas, things got a lot more 'fuzzy' pretty quickly. Phil had all sorts of local deities and customs to put on the table, and so while the Twenty were usually represented in some form, the locals had all sorts of good stuff for us to see. I think he mentions this in the Sourcebook, and also in the Blue Room posts. The old netbook, "Gods of Yan Kor", has a lot on this; I think you can get it on DriveThruRPG these days.

If you ned any local details or color, let me know.

The pantheon of the "Two Brothers" Aridzo and (I think) Eshuel? is pretty big in the far northeast, like around Lake Parunal....I think it extends into Jannu too. I could be wrong about that, my sources aren't at hand. Chirine, is the two brothers cult  a big deal closer to Tsolyanu, like say in Kilalammu?

Quote from: chirine ba kal;959443Yes, on all counts. Once we got out of the central part of any of the Five Empires, and out into the rural and remote areas, things got a lot more 'fuzzy' pretty quickly. Phil had all sorts of local deities and customs to put on the table, and so while the Twenty were usually represented in some form, the locals had all sorts of good stuff for us to see. I think he mentions this in the Sourcebook, and also in the Blue Room posts. The old netbook, "Gods of Yan Kor", has a lot on this; I think you can get it on DriveThruRPG these days.

If you ned any local details or color, let me know.

Thank you Chirine! I'll pm you for this info, if that's ok, as at least one of my players is on this site, and a reader of your thread.

Quote from: Zirunel;959400At the risk of going all "Four Yorkshiremen" on you, it sounds like you grew up in a larger, better-served place than where I live.

The fact that the one small shop here in the 70s chose to carry Tekumel things seems, in retrospect, like improbable good fortune. Luck of the draw.

That said, I think the small retailers back then were more catholic and more adventurous in what they chose to stock. Less tied to entrenched Big Publishers, they'd give anything a try. It was a pretty free-wheelin age when it came to rpgs. Rpgs were all so new and exciting, and who knew what might be the next Big Thing..

Perhaps, but it was and still is hit and miss for a lot things, not just RPGs.
I totally agree with your assertion regarding publishers and retailers back in the day. There was so much choice that I really think we were spoiled in many ways. I don't know if this is still the case however. There are a couple of good game stores in town, and I should check them out one day soon.

My question is inspired by the plans to play a gladiator this week and the next. Of course, the swords are blunted, or we wouldn't be playing with friends:p.

So, Uncle, are there any organized crime groups "fixing" the Hirilakte arena matches;)?

Speaking of "organized crime", I recall that there are assassin families, are there families that specialize in specific types of "crime"?

I assume there are "crimes" besides not paying the government its due and breaking the Concordant?

What are some of the "crimes" that a typical mid-westerner might not expect to be a crime?
=

Quote from: Greentongue;959550Speaking of "organized crime", I recall that there are assassin families, are there families that specialize in specific types of "crime"?

I assume there are "crimes" besides not paying the government its due and breaking the Concordant?

What are some of the "crimes" that a typical mid-westerner might not expect to be a crime?
=

Uncle, I also would like to ask some related questions. As far as investigating crime goes, I would think that where a crime occured would determine who has jurisdiction(and of course taking into consideration who was the victim). So in the clanhouse, the clan elders would be involved. Crimes committed in the temple, the temple. What about crimes that occur in public? How would petty crimes be investigated, such as the pick pockets in the market(if at all formally)? So when and how would a "Lord Meren" get involved, and who would he work for(part of the OAL, or someone else)? What would he investigate?

And to expand on Greentongue's question, what are considered crimes in the Empire? How does this differ from our conception of jurisprudence?

Thank you in advance,

H:0)