And selling those 100 copies in three years?  Sisyphus had it easy in comparison.

I think I am most sad about the utter heartbreak of it all.

Quote from: Zirunel;960876Cool. I envy you that, I've never seen the temple in the flesh, just pictures. I do remember the buzz around it, seemed like it was quite the  sensation at the time.

and welcome!

It's pretty impressive. It's 40" in a side, and about three foot tall when fully assembled. I refurbished the storage / transport box with new casters and hardware in the summer of 2012, and it's been in there since. I originally built the box so we could take it wo conventions to promote Tekumel, and Groan and I did that for some years; hence the investment in very heavy-duty casters.

We have all of the known photos of the thing - taken in 1974, 1987, 2011, and 2012 - in the files. If I had some spare cash, about $10,000, I'd take these to a local props house and turn them loose on the project.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;960883And selling those 100 copies in three years?  Sisyphus had it easy in comparison.

I think I am most sad about the utter heartbreak of it all.

Agreed, on both counts. We worked our butts off, flogging the merchandise.

Sigh. I know what you mean, my General. One does wonder at what Phil would have said about the current situation.

Quote from: chirine ba kal;960884It's pretty impressive. It's 40" in a side, and about three foot tall when fully assembled. I refurbished the storage / transport box with new casters and hardware in the summer of 2012, and it's been in there since. I originally built the box so we could take it wo conventions to promote Tekumel, and Groan and I did that for some years; hence the investment in very heavy-duty casters.

We have all of the known photos of the thing - taken in 1974, 1987, 2011, and 2012 - in the files. If I had some spare cash, about $10,000, I'd take these to a local props house and turn them loose on the project.

Okay wait now, that makes it sound like you're recommending a re-build. Or do you mean working up a 1:1?

Either way, should we be concerned about the conservation status of the original?

doh what am I thinking, a 1:1 would cost much more. Anyway what kind of shape is the original in?

Out of our hands, lad.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;960890Out of our hands, lad.

I know. But it's kinda sickening to think it might be flaking apart or something. I hope that's not the case

Quote from: Zirunel;960888Okay wait now, that makes it sound like you're recommending a re-build. Or do you mean working up a 1:1?

Either way, should we be concerned about the conservation status of the original?

Oh, my. Well, I did promise to answer all questions as honestly as I can, so here goes...

When I left Phil's orbit back in 1988, I had followed his instructions and put the box with the Temple inside out in his garage. I made sure that the box was closed - I had made it so it could be bolted tightly shut. Sometime in the middling 2000's, two of the then-TNG took the box out of the garage to show the Temple to a visiting Big Name Tekumel Fan. This video is up on the web someplace, and I also have copies of all the photos that were taken at the time. When they put the box back into the garage, they damaged several of the casters and left the lid of the box askew and thus open. The box was removed from the garage in 2011, as part of the removal of all Phil's Tekumel collections to the TF's storage bay.

In the decade leading up to this point, mice had gotten into the Temple, and were living and dying in there. I did a complete photo survey of all the damage, and did - at the TF's request - a compete survey of the damage and suggested repairs. I was then told by the TF to bring the Temple to the memorial event for Phil, despite my advisory that it was in no shape to be viewed; I was told to make it happen anyway, as it was very important for the TF's prestige to have the Temple on display. So, with the TF's approval, I vacuumed out the six dead mice and five cubic gallons of shredded mouse bedding, fecal matter, and other by-products of the mice living in the building. I also used distilled water and a human-grade surgical disinfectant to clean the mouse urine out of the building, and I used the special collection bag that we use for abatement work and made sure that all the small detail parts that the mice had knocked loose were collected - I also had the complete photo surveys for getting everything back into place. The Temple was displayed at the event, and many photos and at least one video of it at that time have been posted to the Internet.

After the event, the Temple lived In my basement until I got the box all fixed up, including lining the box with carpeting to help protect the thing from bumps and such, and then the entire thing went off to the TF's new office. As far as I know, it's still there; at least, the box is there.

The pathetic little postscript to this story is that after I did all this work, the TF made a lot of noise about showing the thing off at conventions like Gary Co, and expected me to do this traveling road show for them. I said fine, and bought all sorts of trade show gear - securable booth, lighting, etc. - but then said let's talk budget, and they instantly dropped the idea. Since then, several Tekumel fans have been told by the TF when visiting their office that I destroyed the Temple before the memorial event. in a fit of spite and from my hatred of Phil. Which is why the Temple can't be shown to the public, as it's been totally ruined by Yours Truly. (The fans had, of course, had been at the memorial event and had seen the work I'd done to fix the poor old thing up for the event.) This is much in the same vein as their story that they can't publish any of Phil's files, because these were destroyed by my third daughter and so can't be shown to anyone.

When I expressed my concerns about the Temple's conservation, I was told that the TF has "the top people, top people, working on it." That was over four years ago, I think.

If it were me, I'd restore the temple to a stable state, then commission a new version that could go to conventions as the original is now over forty years old and showing it's age. It'd be easy for me to do, with today's technology - I offered to do it for free, originally - and a props house could do it in a month; for a fee, of course.)

That's the story. And may provide some insight as to why I get upset at times...

Quote from: chirine ba kal;960896Oh, my. Well, I did promise to answer all questions as honestly as I can, so here goes...

When I left Phil's orbit back in 1988, I had followed his instructions and put the box with the Temple inside out in his garage. I made sure that the box was closed - I had made it so it could be bolted tightly shut. Sometime in the middling 2000's, two of the then-TNG took the box out of the garage to show the Temple to a visiting Big Name Tekumel Fan. This video is up on the web someplace, and I also have copies of all the photos that were taken at the time. When they put the box back into the garage, they damaged several of the casters and left the lid of the box askew and thus open. The box was removed from the garage in 2011, as part of the removal of all Phil's Tekumel collections to the TF's storage bay.

In the decade leading up to this point, mice had gotten into the Temple, and were living and dying in there. I did a complete photo survey of all the damage, and did - at the TF's request - a compete survey of the damage and suggested repairs. I was then told by the TF to bring the Temple to the memorial event for Phil, despite my advisory that it was in no shape to be viewed; I was told to make it happen anyway, as it was very important for the TF's prestige to have the Temple on display. So, with the TF's approval, I vacuumed out the six dead mice and five cubic gallons of shredded mouse bedding, fecal matter, and other by-products of the mice living in the building. I also used distilled water and a human-grade surgical disinfectant to clean the mouse urine out of the building, and I used the special collection bag that we use for abatement work and made sure that all the small detail parts that the mice had knocked loose were collected - I also had the complete photo surveys for getting everything back into place. The Temple was displayed at the event, and many photos and at least one video of it at that time have been posted to the Internet.

After the event, the Temple lived In my basement until I got the box all fixed up, including lining the box with carpeting to help protect the thing from bumps and such, and then the entire thing went off to the TF's new office. As far as I know, it's still there; at least, the box is there.

The pathetic little postscript to this story is that after I did all this work, the TF made a lot of noise about showing the thing off at conventions like Gary Co, and expected me to do this traveling road show for them. I said fine, and bought all sorts of trade show gear - securable booth, lighting, etc. - but then said let's talk budget, and they instantly dropped the idea. Since then, several Tekumel fans have been told by the TF when visiting their office that I destroyed the Temple before the memorial event. in a fit of spite and from my hatred of Phil. Which is why the Temple can't be shown to the public, as it's been totally ruined by Yours Truly. (The fans had, of course, had been at the memorial event and had seen the work I'd done to fix the poor old thing up for the event.) This is much in the same vein as their story that they can't publish any of Phil's files, because these were destroyed by my third daughter and so can't be shown to anyone.

When I expressed my concerns about the Temple's conservation, I was told that the TF has "the top people, top people, working on it." That was over four years ago, I think.

If it were me, I'd restore the temple to a stable state, then commission a new version that could go to conventions as the original is now over forty years old and showing it's age. It'd be easy for me to do, with today's technology - I offered to do it for free, originally - and a props house could do it in a month; for a fee, of course.)

That's the story. And may provide some insight as to why I get upset at times...

Great, another sordid tale, thanks. And sorry for asking.

You know a little about my background so I hope you'll understand why I personally would focus on restoration of the original rather than building a new one, not because it would be cheaper, it wouldn't, but because...you know...original. Although given funding, a restored original AND a travelling copy would be great, of course.

And whatever the he-said she-said, and whatever the last five years may have wrought, I expect it can be restored. I work with conservators, and believe me, they can do magic (and they are quite familiar with mouse damage). Naturally, as time passes, a little more gets irretrievably lost each year, and the treatment decisions get a little more painful, so treatment is not something you want to postpone indefinitely.

Quote from: Zirunel;960900Great, another sordid tale, thanks. And sorry for asking.

You know a little about my background so I hope you'll understand why I personally would focus on restoration of the original rather than building a new one, not because it would be cheaper, it wouldn't, but because...you know...original. Although given funding, a restored original AND a travelling copy would be great, of course.

And whatever the he-said she-said, and whatever the last five years may have wrought, I expect it can be restored. I work with conservators, and believe me, they can do magic (and they are quite familiar with mouse damage). Naturally, as time passes, a little more gets irretrievably lost each year, and the treatment decisions get a little more painful, so treatment is not something you want to postpone indefinitely.

Understood; no apology needed, but thank you anyway.

Yes, I agree about the need for restoration of the originals of things - as you can see from the photos on my Photobucket page, I am in the same boat with my own basement full of Tekumel stuff. We learned - the hard way - at Gary Con three years ago that transporting just one of our Tekumel costumes is a major job, and it did take some damage; the leather is forty years old, I had to realize. Which is why I really prefer not to take stuff to conventions, anymore, as the risks of theft and damage have gotten just simply too strong. The logistics are pretty daunting, and I'm not young any more.

As for a traveling copy, my wonderful Missus has suggested assembling a slide show with all the photos she's taken of the thing over the decades, and showing in on one of our big screens. It'd be easier that way, that's for sure.

And yes, I would fully agree that a professional restoration firm would do a great job on the Temple, if they were allowed to work on it. I warned them about this, in almost the exact same words that you use.

But as Gronan says - and he's known these people for as long as I have - the actual chance of anything being done is kinda slim, as it's out of our hands...

Quote from: chirine ba kal;960901Understood; no apology needed, but thank you anyway.

Yes, I agree about the need for restoration of the originals of things - as you can see from the photos on my Photobucket page, I am in the same boat with my own basement full of Tekumel stuff. We learned - the hard way - at Gary Con three years ago that transporting just one of our Tekumel costumes is a major job, and it did take some damage; the leather is forty years old, I had to realize. Which is why I really prefer not to take stuff to conventions, anymore, as the risks of theft and damage have gotten just simply too strong. The logistics are pretty daunting, and I'm not young any more.

As for a traveling copy, my wonderful Missus has suggested assembling a slide show with all the photos she's taken of the thing over the decades, and showing in on one of our big screens. It'd be easier that way, that's for sure.

And yes, I would fully agree that a professional restoration firm would do a great job on the Temple, if they were allowed to work on it. I warned them about this, in almost the exact same words that you use.

But as Gronan says - and he's known these people for as long as I have - the actual chance of anything being done is kinda slim, as it's out of our hands...

Absolutely right, as you note with the costumes, all those moves take a toll. At some point, the piece just has to stay put in a controlled environment and never leave. As for stabilization and conservation, you don't even need a firm. One professional conservator can do the job. Of course, the longer you put it off the more expensive it would get. But once done, you could just build a virtual 3-D model of it for touring. Navigate around it on a screen, let people virtually walk through it, print a physical copy if you really want, whatever.

Quote from: Zirunel;960907Absolutely right, as you note with the costumes, all those moves take a toll. At some point, the piece just has to stay put in a controlled environment and never leave. As for stabilization and conservation, you don't even need a firm. One professional conservator can do the job. Of course, the longer you put it off the more expensive it would get. But once done, you could just build a virtual 3-D model of it for touring. Navigate around it on a screen, let people virtually walk through it, print a physical copy if you really want, whatever.

Agreed. The Missus offered to do the 3-D walk thru show, but was turned down by the TF on this. So, the data is in storage until it's wanted.

Quote from: Zirunel;960857I'd like to know. It would be nice to see the last Seal come out, but it would also be nice to see the earlier issues back in print. The reason for pulling the license may give us a hint about how likely it is that that will ever happen.

It ain't likely to happen any time soon, though, so we have to focus on creating our own material, and possibly using the "totally unofficial, unlicensed" materials circulating on the web;).

Quote from: chirine ba kal;960911Agreed. The Missus offered to do the 3-D walk thru show, but was turned down by the TF on this. So, the data is in storage until it's wanted.

Oh fer crying out loud

Quote from: AsenRG;960914It ain't likely to happen any time soon, though, so we have to focus on creating our own material, and possibly using the "totally unofficial, unlicensed" materials circulating on the web;).

no argument from me there. Best of all, do both.

And if anybody gives you a hard time tell them: "My Tekumel IS Real Tekumel"